Call to ban canned hunting
18/07/2005 11:15 - (SA)


Johannesburg - Urgent national legislation is needed to curb irregular and unethical practices in the country's hunting and wildlife industry, animal welfare groups said on Monday.

This had become clear in private workshops and talks with industry roleplayers, said the National Council of Societies for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, the SanWild Wildlife Trust, Wildcare Africa Trust and Wildlife Action Group.

"Unfortunately, it seems that the practice of hunting 'canned' animals without the principles of fair chase is deeply entrenched in the South African wildlife industry and includes various other species as well," they said.

And, very little had been done by the hunting community and conservation authorities to curb this method of hunting since the Cook Report exposed the practice in 1997.

The main objections of conservationists and animal welfare groups to canned hunting was that the breeding of lions for this purpose had no conservation value and that the hunting ethics were highly questionable.

The government had been called on to prove through action that it was serious about conservation, the animal welfare groups said.

"The group is of the opinion that there are many practices in the South African hunting industry that need to be addressed urgently on a national level," it added.

"The concept of sustainable use should not be used as an excuse to discard sound conservation principles and ethics, allowing the blatant exploitation of wildlife populations."

I'm no fan of an absolutely "canned" hunt, but is seems to me to some degree, high fenced hunting is an essential component in any conservation program - this would include recent success in conservation of the big 5, wouldn't it?

It all depends on who's definition of 'Canned Hunting' is being used.

Is breeding a Lion to be shot by some rich tyro any worse than breeding a Steer to be shot for dinner?

At some point in time, we must define exactly what "canned hunting" is. I don't agree that 'canned hunting' is any hunting that occurs within any fence whatsoever.

quote:

Originally posted by patrkyhntr:
At some point in time, we must define exactly what "canned hunting" is. I don't agree that 'canned hunting' is any hunting that occurs within any fence whatsoever.

I dont believe collectively we can ever clearly define (canned hunting) as it is all a perception / although a bad taste example, I will say it anyhow, just as the word terrorism is sometimes debated, not all in the world will ever agree on the word terrorism per se accross the board, same with canned hunting /

To cut a long story short,

Canned hunting essentially came more to the fore after those LION HUNT issues were exposed or promoted in bad taste after that COOK REPORT, and now the term is used more often and more generally to describe a SMALL HUNTING ENCLOSURE /

So the debate then is (how big should an enclosure) be before is considered to be (not canned) and for which species in particular, as we all know some species are more terretorial than others ...

If someone can explain it all to me clearly and definatevily (including SCI) then I will be more enlightened, we wont win this debate easily !!!

Peter

I think we should let them continue the canned hunting, but RSA should be forced to repeal their new gun law.

quote:

Originally posted by Balla Balla:

quote:

Originally posted by patrkyhntr:
At some point in time, we must define exactly what "canned hunting" is. I don't agree that 'canned hunting' is any hunting that occurs within any fence whatsoever.

I dont believe collectively we can ever clearly define (canned hunting) as it is all a perception / although a bad taste example, I will say it anyhow, just as the word terrorism is sometimes debated, not all in the world will ever agree on the word terrorism per se accross the board, same with canned hunting /

To cut a long story short,

Canned hunting essentially came more to the fore after those LION HUNT issues were exposed or promoted in bad taste after that COOK REPORT, and now the term is used more often and more generally to describe a SMALL HUNTING ENCLOSURE /

So the debate then is (how big should an enclosure) be before is considered to be (not canned) and for which species in particular, as we all know some species are more terretorial than others ...

If someone can explain it all to me clearly and definatevily (including SCI) then I will be more enlightened, we wont win this debate easily !!!

Peter

Is the Cook Report the TV show from Britain about the Lion Hunting?

I am all for canned Lion hunts, it keeps the bastards from killing our wild lions, and our children will be able to hunt wild Lions...If they stop canned hunting, guess who suffers, those of us that love the game....

wake up and get your head out where the sun is, Let them have the penned lions and whatever, it preserves our wild Lion hunting...

quote:

Is the Cook Report the TV show from Britain about the Lion Hunting?

Mickey

Yes that is correct //

If we need to drag it up again here is one report of many floating around from old archives, it starting the whole canned hunting saga that we keep hearing about today

Canned Lion Hunt

Peter

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I am all for canned Lion hunts, it keeps the bastards from killing our wild lions, and our children will be able to hunt wild Lions...If they stop canned hunting, guess who suffers, those of us that love the game....

wake up and get your head out where the sun is, Let them have the penned lions and whatever, it preserves our wild Lion hunting...

Ray that is a narrow minded way of thinking Keeping "canned lion" hunting alive will keep the anti's position strong amongst the politicians and evenually lead to a total closure of lion hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by Balla Balla:

quote:

Originally posted by patrkyhntr:
At some point in time, we must define exactly what "canned hunting" is. I don't agree that 'canned hunting' is any hunting that occurs within any fence whatsoever.

I dont believe collectively we can ever clearly define (canned hunting) as it is all a perception / although a bad taste example, I will say it anyhow, just as the word terrorism is sometimes debated, not all in the world will ever agree on the word terrorism per se accross the board, same with canned hunting /

To cut a long story short,

Canned hunting essentially came more to the fore after those LION HUNT issues were exposed or promoted in bad taste after that COOK REPORT, and now the term is used more often and more generally to describe a SMALL HUNTING ENCLOSURE /

So the debate then is (how big should an enclosure) be before is considered to be (not canned) and for which species in particular, as we all know some species are more terretorial than others ...

If someone can explain it all to me clearly and definatevily (including SCI) then I will be more enlightened, we wont win this debate easily !!!

Peter

Alright now. I am diametrically opposed to shooting an animal that is confined in a cage while being shot. Of course there is an exception. I dispatch skunks caught in my box traps with a .22, but I don't call that hunting. I am also not interested in shooting birds, or any animals for that matter, that are released from the cage while I am watching. Other than that, I am absolutely not against hunting in fenced game ranches. What difference does it make whether there is a fence around a property if the property is of sufficient size? If the presence of a fence makes you puke, then don't hunt where fences are found. For example, most of the land managed by the BLM out west has fences. Don't go there.

We oppose any type of hunting at our peril. Once the antis get "canned hunting" banned, they will expand the definition until they have all hunting banned. What they will key on is "trophy hunting." After that, the emphasis will be on "sport hunting." And so on. Sometimes I think we are our own worst enemies with our holier than thou pronouncements about what is ethical and what is not.

I agree with what Mickey 1 posted: "Is breeding a Lion to be shot by some rich tyro any worse than breeding a Steer to be shot for dinner?" In my opinion, it is not any different. If someone wants to go to RSA and shoot a lion in a fenced preserve, I could care less. It is not my cup of tea, but I don't see it as any more unethical than eating a big mac.

I agree with BwanaMitch, canned hunting just leaves us open to knee-jerk reactions.
The man on the street doesn't have the time or intellect to distinguish between different forms of hunting...

who needs canned lion shooting to protect wild lions as Ray stated?
What the entire African lands nedd is to ban any lion hunting such as California Liberals did to the puma. Hence when enough locals get eaten the lion permits will be issued. "Cats"

I agree with Ray, but maybe for a bit different reasons. My view is that if you "give in" & compromise on canned lion hunting it gives the antis a foothold (just like any other form of gun control they take it a bite at a time)
The antis will always hate hunting, they won't be happy with just this bite of the apple they will just move on to the next restriction.
My opinion.

Mike

How about if all you real hunting experts start defining canned animal as one that lives in a can.
Or more to the point if everyone who hunts calls a lion that is confined to a pen less than 1 acre for more than one third of its life it is livestock and can not be hunted as it is canned only killed like livestock. then you steal the fire from the anti hunting people.

I did warn earlier in this thread that we wont win this debate easily ....

It is the same as ethical hunting, what is ethical to one man is not to another is it

Basically it is up to each hunter to decide, some want to hunt off a bakkie some dont, some bowhunters want to sit over a waterhole, some want walk and stalk, the list in infinite.

There is in fact no perfect answer to the question

Peter