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In the spirit of trying to avoid some of the experiences that result in so-called bad safaris as discussed on another thread, it might be insightful to share with outfitters and agents some of the pet peeves individuals have that might be avoided that contribute to those experiences. By the same token, outfitters and agents should feel free to weigh in with some of their pet peeves that they feel contribute to the potential for negative safari experiences by clients. I can imagine this might include things like an over-emphasis on inches as opposed to the quality of the overall experience, expecting things in a third world country to run like they do at home, etc. I will share several to start: 1. Cell phones and the Internet. At least for me one of the reasons to go on a safari is to get away from some of the electronic leashes we are connected to at home. To have the outfitter chatting on the cell phone, logged on to a computer in the evening, etc. is irritating. This is especially the case when the use of the electronic media pertains to new or future business since you happen to represent business there in person at the moment. While many will ask if you have an objection (or apologize and then proceed), it is tough (at least for me) to object to them using cell phones, etc. Perhaps I need to learn to be more direct. Personally I would prefer that if they are going to use their cell phone or the Internet, do it at night when I am in my room and not around. 2. Long Conversations in a Foreign Language. Unfortunately Americans as a general rule are not multi-language capable . . . in my view we should be, but we are not. On a safari there are many occasions when conversations, some quite extended, take place in a foreign language, a local dialect, etc. It would be nice to at least be given a general description of what the conversation was about. For example, if the PH and the trackers have a long conversation about something . . . just give a short summary of the conversation in English . . . "we were discussing how the lack of rain has resulted in the game movement . . ." It is sometimes disconcerting for there to be a fifteen minute conversation between the PH and trackers on something, and all a client is told is "let's go". 3. Poor Communication. This shows up in a variety of ways (like the foregoing) . . . but here I am referring to managing expectations. Sometimes it seems that outfitters and agents are of a view that it is easier to get forgiveness than permission. For example, they may be aware of an issue or problem for some time before they actually raise the issue or problem with the client. Generally it is raised with the client at a point when there is little that the client can do to address or respond to the issue. I think most (many?) clients are prepared to be reasonable when it comes to making mid-course corrections. Where there is a rub is when those course corrections seem to be dropped on the client with a timing that suggests that it was a pigeon drop. . . . to use the phrase coined by Trump, I have primed the pump, would be interesting to hear what others have to add.  Mike | ||
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I agree with Mike on all points and would add... 4. Be clear on your expectations on the hunt and ask for the PH's expectations (other than getting paid). If these do not align, discuss it and make a plan to keep all parties aligned. 5. Don't be "petty". For example, do not criticize or joke about the PH's vehicle or staff. Do not compare "this safari" to all of your past "safari's". Do not say, "Well, that is the way we do it in Texas." Be open to learn and listen. The PH knows a lot more about hunting than you will ever know. In reality, you do not know diddly about Africa or hunting. 6. Be able to shoot and shoot well. A thousand rounds off the bench are not worth much. Be able to shoot off sticks or free hand or leaning against something. Practice and know your optics. 7. No need to tell the PH about your "experience". He will figure that out in about 5 minutes. Let him tell you what to do and not to do. That should start the ball rolling.... | |||
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I agree whole hardly with mikes points. Any change in change in pre- safari planning should be discussed as soon as it happens. I picked a bow hunting outfitter specifically for his large undivided property. When we get there he says pack your bags we are going to a different property to hunt kudu. The property turned out to be half the size of the home property. This change had been arraigned several months earlier for the whole season. Honor the contract. I specifically requested the owner be my PH for my first buff hunt. When I get there this other guy says, I am going to be your PH. I talked to the owner and he had a damn good reason for leading the other safari in camp. (client couldn't shoot) I agreed to accept the conditions but I didn't like it. Everything turned out fine in the end but it was stress I didn't need for the first day or so. I have walked in the foot prints of the elephant, listened to lion roar and met the buffalo on his turf. I shall never be the same. | |||
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I think it is a mistake to assume the PH and his gang are going to be in the same euphoria you might be in when you arrive.It might be just the opposite and the PH doesn't feel like hunting,is unsure of the future of their career and is just sick of the whole routine.This is sad but it's reality and expected.If I don't like it or anything else I will just go and hunt with someone else. | |||
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Some of the long conversations are between the P.H. and the Trackers. The P.H. is trying to figure out which direction the game are heading. I agree it would be nice to be kept in the loop. A good P.H. should be focused on the game animals and I believe that's why they miss informing the Client all the time? The cell phones are annoying but it is nice to be able to phone home once a day. I turn mine off and use it at MY discretion. The Wi-Fi is being installed in more camps as we speak. It is NOT going away.If there was an Emergency you would be glad you were able to use a Cell or Internet to get help. | |||
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I think it is best to meet the PH in person before you book the hunt, if at all possible. Sometimes, two people just instinctively have bad chemistry for some reason or another, and that makes for a bad start IMO. Whenever I talk with a PH prior to booking a hunt, I realize that there is always a little bit of salesmanship and optimism on the part of the PH, because his/her business is getting clients to hunt. BH63 Hunting buff is better than sex! | |||
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I guess I am the lone ranger in most regards. I absolutely expect my PH will be on the phone, answering emails, etc at some point during the day. I want to get away from it but I cannot. I can get away from my phone during the day but when back at camp the computer comes on, the cell phone comes on and like it or not I have questions that have to be answered. I cannot get away from it no matter how hard I want to or try. I cannot go to a camp that does not have good reliable internet service. One of the first questions I ask when talking to an outfitter. Could be the best deal in the world with the best outfit and if no internet; I just cannot go because of commitments I have to work on while away. I think the PH needs to have a life and a family no different than I do so if he needs to send a text, make a call, talk to potential clients at night I just think of it as part of the deal. I do not expect to have his undivided attention 100% of the time. No issues with the PH talking to others in a foreign language. They come up with the plan and then the PH has always let me know what we are doing, etc. | |||
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Mike's #3 is a big one. I once worked in a camp in Zambia for an outfitter who no longer conducts safaris there. The outfitter had promised a new client (a wealthy European guy) that he would personally guide the guy's safari. For a variety of reasons, that didn't end up happening, and the PH who did the hunt was actually a very good one. We worked hard and managed to get the client all of his trophies, including a nice leopard and a great buffalo. But the client never did get over the feeling of being deceived by the outfitter, and he made sure the hunt was a shitty time for all involved. It would be easy to blame the client's attitude (and the fact that he was a weird dude who baby-talked to his Yorkshire terrier on the sat phone every night), but the root of the conflict was poor communication. Had the guy known of the PH swap well before he hopped on a plane (it was something that had been decided months before then), he almost certainly would have had a better attitude. Instead, he landed on a remote strip in the bush with an unfamiliar face in front of him and a weak explanation. | |||
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First off do NOT go if you have don't go with a good attitude. Frustration due to customs, airlines, flight delays, lost luggage, etc... is really just part of the adventure of safari. If you wish to avoid the uncertainty of traveling abroad, stay home. Most African plains game species, and more can, and are, shot each year in Texas. Is it a safari, no. Is it a hunt depends. Will you get your animal. Yes. The equality of the two experiences will never be close to the same. As for bad behavior, may I clearly say clients are not immune from that particular malady. As to Professionals, well the term is so sadly misapplied these days I am not sure what it really means anymore. The oldest definition is appropriate, if one pays for the service, the recipient of the money is a "professional". Seriously, in today's world, the need to be "connected" will be the death of all we really cherish. Where is the quality time around the campfire, sharing the day and adventure, learning about the area, your guides life experience, the minutae of the flora and fauna. I appreciate that "connectivity" is important in the hunting world, BUT if it is to be done, it should be done discreetly away from the PAYING client currently occupying your calendar. Oh and I really hate any type of TV in any camp setting other than a lodge, and then is should be off until well after dinner, IMHO... Soapbox relinquished forthwith. | |||
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I agree with you in that PHs have to try and multi-task in order to keep the business running. (Although I would prefer no internet in camp!) One of my best memories of my last safaris was when I decided to leave the camp 2 or 3 days early (I had already got my buffalo) and was able to witness the PH's young daughter squeal with delight because her dad was able to make it to her first "rounders" game. Although you pay a substantial amount of money for a safari, it really isn't ALL ABOUT YOU. JMO. BH63 Hunting buff is better than sex! | |||
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All excellent points, especially # 1. I add: 1. Ask how far from the camp to the hunting area, especially if you are hunting in the Karoo, where you could spend as much time on the highway as hunting. (Also, the rocky walking in the Karoo will kill an old man.) 2. How many party's in camp? You want to be the only hunting party in camp. 3. If you are hunting cape buffalo ask how close you will get for the shot. Some PH's will be happy to have you shoot at 90 yds. I tell them that I need to be within 50 yds. That is why it's called "dangerous game" and costs so much. (Actually, the closer the shot the safer it is because you can get the bullet in the heart and be sure of not spending the next few days, or the rest of your life, tracking a wounded buff.) IHMSA BC Provincial Champion and Perfect 40 Score, Unlimited Category, AAA Class. | |||
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The issue with cell phones is a tricky one. If the PH is conducting nessessary business that's one thing but if he is on the text all day and distracting from the hunt you have paid big bucks for then it's wrong. Nessessary business is one thing but socializing on your dime is another. As far as speaking in another language it should be avoided. It's rude if not nessessary and especially if all present speak your language. My experiences with international travel is that they are likely saying something they don't wish you to know, that should be taken care of in private. | |||
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Use an experienced / well traveled agent! Its our job, and we are un-biased!! | |||
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#4... don't bring a smoking hot blond to camp unless it's for the client's entertainment? . (At least she was a British trained MD). | |||
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I agree with this completely. You spend a great deal of time in the company of your PH and decent chemistry makes everything easier. analog_peninsula ----------------------- It takes character to withstand the rigors of indolence. | |||
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At the end of a long day I like to relax around the fire with a cigar and GNT. Having the PH there to talk about the next day's plan or just about his life in Zim or Tanz or wherever is fun for me. I always have extra minutes on the Satellite phone and offer to have the PH or videographer make calls to his family which goes a long way. | |||
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Mike's points are valid and probably can be handled with some tact and pre-booking communications. No, I don't want to sit there by myself while everyone is on the computer or phone or talking in another language the whole evening. But I understand today's world. | |||
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How much should the prospective hunter rely on refrences and photos? After all the agent or PH will only provide references that are glowing and photos of quality animals. Poor animals or bad experiences will not be shared. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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I agree with Mikes comments. Cell phones should be turned off while hunting on foot. I was in the middle of a stalk when the PHs phone started ringing. I turned around and walked back to the truck like a little b_ _ _ _ _. It ruins it for me to be feeling I'm in the middle of wild Africa and have to hear a phone ring especially in the middle of a stalk. PHs talking in a different language in front of us when they both speak English is rude. I guess if they were talking shit, they can't say they were talking behind your back  As far as quota, they shouldn't tell you they have quota before you book, then it disappears when you arrive. We finished hunting an area in Tanzania then chartered to the north specifically for lesser kudu. When we arrived they claimed there wasn't any quota. I told the manager that I didn't fly up here for a vacation and that they better shit some quota because a kudu is going to get shot. Somehow they were able to shit some quota. Lastly I don't feel the PH should be sleeping in the back of the truck while we are hunting. If I'm looking for animals, I feel he should be doing the same. DRSS Searcy 470 NE | |||
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I would say that SOME of you are unbiased. Some are snake oil salesmen. No offense or implication to you Aaron. | |||
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There is always the possibility of hiccups with any trip but it seems to me some here will always have a great safari and report it as such. By the same token, some will always have a poor experience and belabor that point ad nauseam. Who's who isn't hard to figure after a while. Certainly I am no Ph's ideal client but with my upcoming hunt, I had considerable background and references on my PH (almost exclusively from AR). I sent him the name of a former PH of mine so he could check me out before booking. I have no idea if he checked or not but being successful runs both ways even though only one of us is writing the checks. ___________________________________________________________________________________ Give me the simple life; an AK-47, a good guard dog and a nymphomaniac who owns a liquor store. | |||
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. . . ain't that the truth.  Mike | |||
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+1 I will not hunt in a camp that does not have wifi/internet or cell service. I need to check emails and do work stuff. I need internet access for at least 5 minutes a day. I dont see a reason for a PH or trackers or driver not to be able to talk to his wife or family for a few minutes during the course of a hunt. At lunch or driving around not during a stalk. I actually find the availability of internet by staff to be a big plus. In Burkina one of the translators had access to internet thru a wireless cell card. He saved me a ton of time and effort every day and gave me updated daily prices on a portfolio of financial instruments for work. Getting that same data on a sat phone would been a massive effort - call someone, have then run thru prices, write them down ect. Mike | |||
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If happiness is reality exceeding expectations and unhappiness is reality not living up to expectations then Mike has hit the nail on the head. We expect Africa's paece and quiet in the bush surrounded by animals and as Mike points out distractions like cell phones, prolonged chats to others not related to the hunt and poor communication ruin the expectations. I ve been fortunate in having great, devoted to our experience, PH s and guides especially in Zim, Botties and Nambia but have seen some of what Mike refers to. The one time the hunting company switched PH on me after personal arrangements with the PH. That pissd me off but it worked out fine in the end and in retrospect was the best. But I probably will never go with the same company again. As long as one is treated with respect and honest communication when problems arise, this is Africa after all!, most issues that do not meet expectations can be resolved. | |||
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Personally if I were to book a hunt I would study AR's hunt report forum and use this as a base for booking a safari. I strongly object to those who sell something that they have not got or waver from an agreement or contract. That would be fraud. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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The biggest thing in avoiding the bad safari is to learn how to go with the flow. Relax. This is Africa. They move at a different pace and with a different sense of urgency. | |||
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. All of the above plus 1/ dirty bakkies - easy to clean every day and wash yesterday's blood off ! 2/ Papp Papp and more Papp - Boers and other Africans may love it ..... Most of the rest of the world doesn't 3/ did I mention Papp ? . "Up the ladders and down the snakes!" | |||
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Charlie, I'll bite. What is Papp Papp? Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Mealie meal. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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If mealie meal is anything like grits, count me in. | |||
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Nothing wrong with Mealie Meal. I rather took to it after first trying in Zim last year. I did as my PH showed me and stirred in Honey and Peanut Butter. After that I had it for breakfast every morning, most mornings two full bowls of it. One day was a huge day tracking buff with no opportunity for lunch. We had only the water the boys carried. I believe the mealie meal sustained me very well. Hunting.... it's not everything, it's the only thing. | |||
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Avoiding the bad safari: 1. References are like references for everything else. It is one mans's opinion, or several, but it doesn't always tell the whole tale. 2. Remember you are in a financial transaction with someone. While the goal is to have a good time and take some animals, remember that you are paying top dollar for the right to do so. 3. Don't be a jerk, try and ask the questions up front and see how they fly at the convention. If you don't like the answers don't book. I am a Christian, but I don't wear it on my sleeve. I am still a foul mouthed retired sailor, and don't mind a dirty joke. I am easy going, and try to have fun. If the guy has a stick up his ass in the booth at a convention, I reckon he will be no different in camp. 4. I don't mind problems, and malfunctions, and flat tires, and everything else. That's part of the charm of Africa. I don't want to be lied to about bullshit. 5. Someone wrote above about long drones of Afrikaans or another language to the trackers in the bush. I am fine with that, just keep me in the loop, even if minimally. The long periods of foreign language at dinner are hard to deal with. 6. I am there to hunt, not fix fence, repair water pumps or anything ranching related. If ranching is your primary concern please let me know up front. 7. I don't expect brand new Landcruiser 79 crew cabs with leather wrapped steering wheels, if you are still driving serviceable FJ-45's we will be fine. Loaner rifles ought to be without safety problems, and accurate enough to kill should I be renting one or have a problem where mine is not available. 8. Tipping is an American disease the rest have the world has been screwed up by. I will probably tip whatever I can afford, this might be 5-30% depending on the cost of the hunt. If you created a shit storm of a safari, a tip will not happen. 9. I don't hunt for trophies, I hunt because I like it and think golf courses and cemeterys are a shit waste of hunting land. 10. Modern technology "mobile phones, computers and all that jazz", are the reason I go hunting. If you spend all the hunting day on the phone, you might as well drop me back off at the airport or give me another PH. Never drive and talk on the phone at the same time unless we are in the absolute bush on dirt roads. 11. My personal safety is of the utmost importance to me, be safe or take me back to the airport. I have 4 kids and a wife who want me to come home at the end of this "ordeal, as my wife calls it". | |||
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Seth; I totally agree with your list! It would be my perfect check list! Regards, Darin | |||
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Thanks Darin, I am probably going to go back to Namibia next year. Cheap little 5 or 6 species 7 day hunt. We have cheap air fare from Europe (in fact the last time I went I lived in Europe). We should have made it over the mountain to see you before we moved to Europe from Ridgecrest. cheers, Seth | |||
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Papp, mielie-pap, sasda or any other name you wish to call the staple starch in Africa, is something that I personally like to eat at the very least once a week while at home. When on a hunting trip I like to eat pap at least every day, and sometimes twice a day! In a proper reply to Mark's question one should mention that "pap" or papp, if you wish, is really a collective name for a variety of dishes made with ground maize (mielie) meal, water and a bit of salt and slowly cooked in a three-legged cast-iron pot. The product of these same basic ingredients comes in three distinct consistencies, just the amount of water in the final product differs. The highest water content is known in Afrikaans as "slap-pap", which may be roughly translated to "runny-porridge" , or just "maize porridge", as it's consistency is "runnny" and will spill out of a tilted plate. This is generally served as a first course breakfast food eaten with a spoon after adding some sugar, and/or melted real butter, and milk. Then the basic ingredients is also made into a wide range of lower-water content paps, all called "Stywe-pap" in Afrikaans. Could be called "stiff-pap" or the general indigenous language word "putu-pap". This one is my personal favorites for eating as side-dish to a nice fatty lamb chop well done on a braai (the putu-pap taken from my plate by hand, rolled slightly into a ball and then dabbed on the fatty chop before eating). Lastly there is pap that is so dry that it is well described by the Afrikaans name of "krummel-pap", which may be roughly translated to "crumbly pap". This particular consistency required some experienced cook to get the balance between amount of water, the intensity of the heat and frequency if stirring while cooking just right! I personally like eating this particular variety with a slightly curried tomato and union relish with any "braaied" meat. In a high-cost hunting camp you can expect the cook to have to make "pap" every single day, mostly for the benefit of the trackers, skinners and general camp helpers, as it is really the staple food (being both cheap and nourishing) of indigenous people almost all over Africa. I think it is only logical that such a dish is also offered to the hunting clients. Judging by my white friends, it is an acquired taste, as some, like me, just love it in any consistency. Others cannot enjoy a mouthful of pap in any consistency! However you look at it, pap is nutritious and a source of sustained energy. My own son says "it is food that sticks to my ribs and can keep me going all day!" There, that is papp: If offered, please try it with an open mind. I love well-made and properly cooked pap in any form! Andrew McLaren Professional Hunter and Hunting Outfitter since 1974. http://www.mclarensafaris.com The home page to go to for custom planning of ethical and affordable hunting of plains game in South Africa! Enquire about any South African hunting directly from andrew@mclarensafaris.com After a few years of participation on forums, I have learned that: One can cure: Lack of knowledge – by instruction. Lack of skills – by practice. Lack of experience – by time doing it. One cannot cure: Stupidity – nothing helps! Anti hunting sentiments – nothing helps! Put-‘n-Take Outfitters – money rules! My very long ago ancestors needed and loved to eat meat. Today I still hunt! | |||
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I will confess that mealie meal porridge for breakfast with a little butter and honey, along with a slice or two of toast is actually quite nice as far as I am concerned. Even the occasional serving of sudza is okay so long as there is a salt shaker on the table and some gravy or something else to give it a little flavor. Sort of like mashed potatoes but without the flavor. Mike | |||
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Guys, Thanks! I had heard all the other names for Mealies but not Papp Papp. Learn something every day. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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In TZ it is commonly known as "ugali", eaten in much the same way and the staple dish for the local community. I am sure that those of you who have hunted in TZ may have noticed the crew preparing their food during the lunch break and eating out of a communal plate, kneading what might resemble a ball of mashed potato and dipping it into a bowl of stew. In Italy "polenta" which is a traditional dish from the north, is basically the same but more coarse in texture and ground from yellow maize/corn. | |||
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Very Interesting! Some input! 1. Obviously that's true - and never would anyone truly send a reference they knew was BAD! 2. True, but a choice the hunter made too. Both should do their best to honor the "deal". 3. TRUE! At the end of the day guys, its just hunting - its not life/death. Good heavens, just relax and have some fun!! 4. Excellent point! I shot my 82lb x 84lb elephant in Zim a few years ago - ONLY because we had 2 flat tires that day and had to return to hunt close to camp. Otherwise, I likely would never had seen that bull. Sometimes s**t happens, its not that big of a deal. 5. Totally agree! Hunt outside of SA, and that's a lot less of a problem. 6. Also agree, and same answer. Hunting outside of SA, possibly Namibia - is so much different. 7. Very good point! We just need reliable, workable and capable equipment/staff. 8. Also agreed! I do my best to tip as much as possible, which on most safaris generally runs $4,000 - $5,000. But please, all I ask is that you earn it! 9. Now look, I love golf  ! For years I played to a +1 (golfers here will get it) but as for trophies in general - I'm totally with ya. I just love hunting, so let's just go hunting. If we shoot a big trophy, great! I only care about shooting mature lions, and buffalo - otherwise I am not any sort of expert at judging age. 10. Again man, you just gotta get into real/wild Africa. That stuff will not happen in most cases - cause there is no service out there. Otherwise, I totally agree with you! Are we hunting or doing spending time doing your personal work? Do that in your chalet at night, on your own time! 11. Can't argue with that at all. | |||
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As I have posted on numerous occasions before, I support tipping and I tip. I likewise think that those that find tipping objectionable or do not want to tip simply should not. That said, tipping $4,000-5,000 on a hunt is just whack in my view regardless of how expensive the hunt may have been or how good the service was on the hunt. You must get a lot of Christmas cards from outfitters though. Mike | |||
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