I am in the planning stages for a future rifle project. (I need to finish the ones I am in the middle of or had incomplete first / wifes orders). I would prefer it to be in 375 H&H since I hope to hunt buff with it some day (elk and black bear in the interum). But the caliber isnt set in stone. I am comparing the options of building one on a commercial action or buying a factory rifle. I want a Mauser style action for controlled feed. This is going to be a rifle that is built for use and probably not looks. If I take the build option it will most likely have a laminate stock.

The factory options for me being Winchester M70 Classic, Ruger 77, CZ 550. I am open to suggestions on this also. For building one there are the options of purchasing the above actions plus others such as Charles Daly. What would you choose and what modifications would you reccomend if any?

What advice and opinions do you have regarding what I should look for or have built into said rifle? Stocks, sights, optics, barrel length and contour, etc... I want it fully capable of dangerous game but still practical as a heavy hitter for elk and such.

Your opinions and reccomendations would be greatly appreciated. Just remember I am working on a soldiers and married with children budget.

I've got a Whitworth 375 that I like a lot and has controlled feed, express sights, barrel band swivel and looks the part of an African DGR. They're fairly available and reasonable ($550 to $750) on the used market. Worth a look. Bob

Ok, first you are going to have to define "budget". You can either define a dollar figure, then decide what you can do for that amount or look for a used gun in 375.

I think if you are looking for a new gun a lot of people are recommending the CZ. If I were to go the semi-custom route on a budget I would look for a pre 64 action and go that route. That way each bite isn't as painful and you can space it out as finances allow. Also, look into a used whitworth, I haven't heard much bad about them and they can be had rather cheap when the right situation happens.

yeah what bobc said

I guess I should of quantified my "budget". I am looking at around $1000 before optics.

If I go the build route it will be spaced out to keep it as painless as possible.

M1Tanker,

Quote:

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I am looking at around $1000 before optics.

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Well that leaves out the Ruger M77. If it ws me I would look into a CZ 550 American and go from there. While not perfect it will give you a good starting point. Lawdog

The win 70 classic express fits the bill nicely blued steel and walnut stock excellent sights for a factory rifle, barrel band front swivel, and crf and hit under your 1k budget or the classic stainless (699$ on auction arms) both good rifles and typically great shooters. the ruger rsm's are great but are hard to find lately and exceed your budget about 250$. The cz's are great start for a semicustom and they are priced very reasonable. check the internet firearm auction sites for some excellent deals.

Give a look at the CZ550 Magnum. It has extended Mag and is very servicable. Then look at a Brockman drop in laminate for $375. They look good feel good and are finished well with crossbolts installed. That should put you in a VERY good rifle for around $1000.

Well first off , it sounds to me you are after an all-around rifle . I can sympathize with that , as it fits with my view of what a .375 H&H should be .

The problem with many of the factory rifles for all around use (the way I see it) is they are too dam heavy and in some cases too bulky to be carried around in places like elk country . The WInchester Safari , the CZ , and the Ruger are all pretty heavy and the CZ and Ruger have a needlessly large action for the H&H , being designed to accmodate the large Rigby size rounds .

About all that leaves in factory mode is maybe the stainless Winchester or the Whitworth .

With $1000 tho , I think you could find a used M-70 in Shooting Times or .300 Weatherby , or have a STANDARD M-77 Ruger opened up for magazine length , and re-barrel with something like Pac-nor or Douglas with the contour of your choice to keep the weight within reasonable limits........

I just did the math on this the other day. For about $1100+shipping and handling

Legacy Sports Mauser X action $445 field grade $545 SS
Boyds JRS Classic with lightening of buttstock $90
Pacnor 416 Stainless Steel barrel #1 contour $200 with flutes +$90
Pacnor fitting of barrel to action and tuning of action +$200

Bases, optics and NECG safari sights extra.

This is what I'd like to do in .338WM and .416 Rem. Mag.

Don't forget about Remington. I've got a Model 700 Classic in 375 H&H that worked wonders on several safaris. Only drawback and a very minor one in my opinion is the push feed action. I've never felt that push feed is a problem, but lots of folks that post here think it is. But, if I'm going into the nasty stuff for things that bite back, I'll be carrying my double.

Mac

Tanker,

Can you get a 375 H&H on a budget, yes, will you like it, maybe. I tried buying rifles on a little budget, and the results were usually less than sterling.

Now you can get NIB Winchester Safari for around $800, and use it in good health. But for me, the sights suck, and bedding is so so, only holds three in the mag, and weighs too much for a 375 H&H, very barrel heavy, IMHO. Winchester uses the same barrel on their 416's, and 458's. If it's right for those calibers, it's a pig on a 375 H&H.

CZ, holds 5, sights are semi-useable, also heavy but seems to balance better than the Winny (less weight in barrel, more weight in action), the American style stock is ok, no barrel mounted sling swivel stud, and the safety is ok, but would be better replaced with a 3 position, bedding needs work. Street price is around $650.

Ruger RSM, most expensive of the lot, with a street price of around $1150. Has all the goodies, three position safety, express sights, holds 4 in the mag, plus a decent looking stock. Trigger usually needs a little work, and the front sight blade can be changed to something a human being can see, and better recoil pad should be added, and the stock bedded. I found it also to be a trifle muzzle heavy, but it might be alright to others. But it is probibily closer to good to go out the door as any of the others. Just my HO.

Used is only sometimes a way to go. Often your buying somebody's else problems, and as a used gun no factory warranty to send it back to get fixed for free. Often I spent more getting a used rifle right, than if I bought it new. Yep, I gotten a few bargins in my day by buying used, but it is often a crap shoot. And I've been the loser, more times than I've been a winner.

Now if you build one from scratch, you are looking at around $2000. if you have a suitable action, not including a scope. But you get what you want.

I currently having a 404 Dakota built on a donor Brno ZKK 602 action. Adding a Lothar Walter barrel, NEGC front and rear sights, barrel band swivel, 3 position Wisman safety, all bedded in a McMillan express stock. It will cost right around $2300, with all parts and labor, including the donor action. By a known smith, as opposed to the local gun butcher. But an extree $20.00 bucks a week for a year, (and it will take that long to get it back from the smith), and I've got the extra scratch to pay for a it.

I am doing without the pretty wood, and it will be butt ugly, but functional. I get to use the barrel I want, in the length and diameter I want, so that the rifle balances right for my tastes.

You pays your money and you makes your choice,

Good luck and good hunting,

Bob

William (or Bill?),

I did the same thing about 15 years ago, only I was retired, divorced and the kids were grown.

I started with a BRNO M602 in .375 H&H, which for all intents and purposes is a CZ 550. The rifle is good to go hunting as it is, but you can modify it and add features as you go. Just lay things out in your plan so that you have a working rifle at each stage. Then you can take bites out of the apple until it is done.

I would change things to ensure reliability, and add wanted features.

I like the M70 Winchester style safety, and I had one put on the BRNO. I was also fixing the backwards safety of that rifle which is a problem that the 550 does not have.

I would use the original stock unless you decide you hate it.

Good hunting...

jim

I agree with HunterJim, I recently acquired a BRNO 602 375 H&H from a forum member (thanks JoeR!!!) and absolutley love it. The gun is extremely accurate. I put a Khales 2-7 scope on it and plan to put a Winchester style safety on the rifle. GREAT gun and very affordable.

Don't scrimp, you always get what you pay for. I suggest a M70 in a Safari Express, take it to a quality gunsmith and accurize it. Spend money on a good scope, and enjoy owning something nice, rather than sub-standard. One trophy fee is the cost of the rifle.

Mr. Berger, can you tell us your budget for this project? Knowing the budget will help us provide input/suggestions. For example, if your total budget is $500, the you probably need to stick to used Whitworths and CZ's. If your total budget is $3K, then you could pick up a used Dakota or get a model 70 totally reworked.

500Grains,
My budget plan is around $1000 not including optics. There is some flexibility though. I do have an EXCELLENT gunsmith who has built several rifles for me in the past. He has experience with building and tuning DG rifles. I feel very comfortable using him to build it. If I go that route.

By the way I lived in SLC for 2 years, Herriman actually. My wife is from Riverton. I am up there at least once a year.

Get yourself a Model 70 for about 800 bucks, send it to a good gunsmith ( if it needs it, mine is just perfect out of the box, do a search here and you can see my target),used mine in Africawith no problems, put a Leupold 1.75X6X32MM and forget about it. jorge

Zim Hunter,

Can you tell me a little about the Borckman's drop-in laminate. Do you have one? How does it affect the weight of the rifle, is it lighter or heavier than the factory stock? Does it have checkering? Can you post a picture if you have one? Thanks.

Sevens

I'm with Jorge on this one, though I personally shoot a customized Whitworth. While admitting that there is a minor thread of complaints about the M70, considering the price and the changes you have to do to a CZ to make it Africa-ready (barrel band, striker-block safety, etc) I think you will spend less in total following his course. Personally, I always consider a factory rifle nothing but a starting point anyway so for the shooter on a budget, my advice is to buy the one that takes the minimum amount of change.
Good hunting, brother,

M1Tanker,



When you are going to be here, let me know and we will go out to shoot some big bores.



My next question is whether you will insist on shooting red hot loads in the .375. If so, then I will not advise any mauser conversions because very high pressures can set lugs back on case hardened mausers. If you want to shoot really hot loads, then I will keep mauser conversions on the table. For ordinary .375 loads, a mauser is an excellent choice.



Overall I think the best deal out there is a used Whitworth in .375.



A second choice would be a used Interarms in .375.



A third choice would be a cz550 American (no HOGBACK stock). Toss those goofy CZ sights and put on some from NECG. Toss the Enfield style safety and add a model 70 safety. Cut off the bolt handle and install an obendorf style handle. Get Talley quick release rings, and you have a nice 6 shot .375. But the budget for that would be about:



gun $650

sights: $150

safety: $250

bolt handle: $125



Another option is to build up a 1914 or 1917 Enfield or Remington model 30. But to do that right would cost more than $2K so I will skip the detaails.



Another option is a sporter conversion of a mauser 98, priced out as follows:



action: $125

mag box $280

follower: $20

Obdendorf bolt handle: $125

barrel: $250

sights and barrel band $150

gunmsmithing to put it together: $300

rough inletted stock (lower end): $300

stock finishing (bottom end): $350

recoil pad: $50

ebony tip: $75

grip cap: $75

inletted sling stud: $40



Again, this breaks the $2K mark.

M1Tanker,

My 375 is going to be made from a 458 Win Safari Express Mod 70...well, actually it's a 458 Lott right now. It's gonna pick up a new 25" tube with NECG front and rear sights. Will wear a Leupold 1x4 in Talley QD rings/bases. I picked it up used for a reasonable price and will have about 1K in it by the time it is rebarreled. Any of the magnum bolt face (not WSM) Winnies will do for this--might need a new mag box/ follower but they're all the same length action. I tend to like aftermarket barrels because they're usually easier to clean at first and because I can specify contour and length and crown type, etc. The CZ550 might be the most economical way to go...just depends on if you like their sights or not...I don't like the factory Winnie sights. I really like Mauser 98 rifles but often they can get expensive to get the actions set up just right. Get what you like the most and then put your trust in your gunsmith to make it as problem-proof as possible. Let us know what you decide and how it turns out!

Darn. Wish I could find a 458 Lott for that price...



Anyway, CZ's are pretty damn good. If you aren't too big, you can have the hogback chopped straight, and it works great. Mine fits perfectly, and I'm 5'11" with 69" inch arms, length. Paid 550, without a firing pin(display model from CZ rep), and, after the free firing pin, had my gunsmith look at it. He said, about 8 times,

"You paid how much for this?"

The wood is beautiful, high grade, turkish walnut. This can vary with your purchase.

I saw a 416 that looked like it was made of plastic.



I took my gun to my smith, prior to shooting, and had him go through it. I said, if you need too, put crossbolts in it. More money for him. He made sure the wood fit was right, but came to the conclusion that for the 375 H&H, I could shoot the hell out of it with the existing design, without any problems.



I did have him put a custom muzzle brake on it, and a Kickeze magnum pad. With Bushnell Elite 3200 2X-7, and scope rings, I'm in about 1100. I'm delighted with the rifle.



My only complaint is it wallops pretty good with 300 grain

Weatherby rounds.



s

PS

I LOVE the set trigger. Push forward, and you have a

target, hair trigger, free. I usually have to pay 150 bucks to install a Timmony trigger. The CZ's is better, out of the box, and adjustable.

Check out the Weatherby web site.

If memory serves, they have a synthetic which lists for about $1,100 in 375 H&H, probably less than $1,000 street price. Weight is less than a clunky old Ruger It's a quality rifle and all you will have to do is scope it.

Watch the auction sites as well as the For Sales here carefully for a while.

Be patient. Some folks will buy larger caliber rifles, shoot them once, and decide they aren't fun.

I picked up an essentially new Japanese Howa made Weatherby Weathermark V in .375 H&H for $600. The synthetic stock is straight and recoil is well controlled. The darn thing is accurate as can be ... has shot several groups just over 1/4" center to center.

Not a bad way to get into bigger bore guns. My next one was an already worked over CZ in .416 Ribgy. Stock had been reshaped slightly but enough and bedded, recoil lug and cross bolt added, the follower had been corrected to allow 4 down, the trigger done, and a nifty Weaver bridge rail added. Was $1000 and it shoots 3/4"groups with 350s and 400s at speed.

Just be patient.

M-1Tanker
With the specs you require I offer the following suggestions. I have a friend that has a 375 CZ. We have shot it to 300 yards with excellent results. It is factory original. There has never been a problem with the rifle.
Some years ago I owned a Whitworth in 375 [and one in 458, I traded them when I went to double rifles]. Take a look at these two factory rifles, pick the one you like the best.

M1, I had a 458 built on a Daly action last year. Douglas heavy contoured barrel, laminated JRS stock, sights and barrel band swivel, extra recoil lug and bedded for about $600. Now the gunsmith did have a good deal on the actions but even paying what they go for at the wholesalers you should be able to do the whole thing for well under $1000.00. Mine has the gunkote finish so I didn't spend a bunch of money on fine polishing. I put a Leupold 2-7 on it(not shown in this pic) and it shoots really well. The thing I like about the semi-custom route is you get exactly what you want for about what a decent factory gun would cost.

BG,
$600 . . . for THAT? Ooooo, you thief and pickpocket, you! What a lovely bargain rifle! M1, take note. This is basically the route I am advocating . . . the semi-custom rifle. It sure worked for me and after Mozambique/RSA this August, I'm going to do it again.

Something to think about, you may consider saving up another $400 - $500 and shoping for a true pre - 64 Mdl. 70. It will hold better value over the long haul if you dont beat it up, has most of what many find disirable in a DGR. Like the current MDl. 70 the barrel is still heavy for caliber, but 4 down, and should feed well. The current Mdl. 70s can be wonderfull with modification but you are into more money.

HBH

sorry hbh,
but 4-500$ for a pre 70 375, i'm not bashing here, but m1's budget was around 1K, that still leaves him short about with your extra 500$, short 1K unless he is willing to settle for a pre 64 with no bolt.
ther is a pre 64 .375 on g*nbroker.com for 2120$ buy it now 3400$ please!!!
Thats the price of a nice semi-custom using just about any action he wants.

Bill,
For my .375H&H I just chose the M70 Stainless Classic and have made a few changes. I had it pillar bedded, removed the factory supplied sights, and had a Gentry barrel band front swivel base installed. The next thing I plan to do is have NECG sights fitted. For optics I put on a Leupold 4X in Leupold QR bases and rings. Its fairly light and the stock directs the recoil straight back. On the M70 Safari Express the factory sights are much better than what comes with the Stainless Classic. With exception of the optics and eventual cost of the NECG sights the rifle is under a $1,000.

500grains: With all this mauser-action talk, I might get my feelings hurt if I didn't have a thick skin.

But I have to agree with the earlier comment regarding the Weatherby option. The only thing it doesn't bring to M1Tanker's criteria is the crf. Weatherby produces two excellent rifles, with execellent reputations, in .375 H&H. Both can be purchased within the $1000 price limit, more or less, at actual retail price. Of course, crf is or can be an important issue with some folks. I personally like any rifle action that always works and works always, and that includes a well made crf action as well as Weatherby's push-feed. Both cost more.

As far as quality goes, standard-over-the-counter Winchester rifles rarely stand up to standards observed in other, and frequently more expensive, rifles. Including Weatherby's. And I love the M70 (who doesn't?). But as many people have said here, out-of-the box quality is uneven and often require or at least benefit from some "tuning." You do get what you pay for. For my money I would buy a Weatherby (and I do).

My absolute favorite rifle is a Wby .378 barreled action with an H-S Precision stock placed on it, with Tally rings/bases and a 1.75x6x32 Leupold. This rifle cost maybe $2000 and it is worth every penny. Weatherbys are just an option.

But if I were to buy a good mauser actioned rifle, I would buy perhaps a Dakota and then just get over the cost . But this doesn't help M1Tanker.

This is not within the stated budget, but it is nice enough to tempt anyone.

I really appreciate all the suggestions. The majority of my rifles are either semi or full custom. Most being competition rifles for high power and silhouette with synthetic or laminate stocks. ALL my competition and serius hunting rifles have been worked over to some extent. I believe it was Whelen who stated that "only accurate rifles are interesting". I follow that to some extent in that I demand top accuracy from my hunting and target rifles. But I also insist on absolute reliability under any circumstance. It is no fun at all to be shooting a rapid fire stage of a high power match and have it misfeed. That is why I love the M70, 1903, and Mausers so much. I am leaving the Remingtons, Savage, Weatherby, etc... out because I have to have the CRF. Its a comfort thing with me.

I have no experience with the CZ 550, but I have 4 of their rimfires and 2 .223's and swear by them. The shroud on the 550 always looked too modern for my tastes that prefer the classic side.

I also own a few Win M70 Classics and have found them to be fine rifles. A M70 Classic in 30/06 that has only had the extractor worked over is one of the most accurate rifles I own and will shoot better than a chunk of my Lilja and Obermeyer barrels. On all of them I did notice the extractor tends to shave a sliver of brass from the case. A little stoning and polishing fixed that right up. There has been mention of the safety being backwards. Could someone elaborate on that for me?

Zero experience with with Rugers.

Probably because of my competetive background I tend to like a little heavier rifle than most. So the barrel on the factory guns would probably feel pretty good to me. I dont mind a very utilitarian look to my rifles as long as they fit me and can handle heavy use. (never abuse though) I still love a pretty slab of walnut crotch though.

I have very little experience with big bores, except in black powder cartridge 40/65, 45/70, 45/90 and I DONT PLAN ON USING THEM FOR DG. Lets not get that started again. I have shat a few big boys for fun (if you call getting your brains rattled and teeth knocked around fun). I have shot the Barrett M82 50BMG a bunch and have no doubts the caliber is suitable for any DG. I definately dont consider the 50 fun to shoot either. But I do have a fetish for the Browning M2. The most potent I regularly load ammo for and shoot is a 338 mag. Except for match rifles I have used a scope for the majority of my hunting situations. The few times I used metallic sights they were tang mounted peeps or Verniers in lever actions or Win 1885's and a Rem Rolling Block. I have very little experience wth barrel mounted sights.

Here is my idea of what a DG rifle in 375 should have whether it be factory or semi-custom:

controlled round feed action

24" match grade barrel with a contour resembling a Shilen #5 with integral recoil lug

classic style stock (laminate, synthetic, or walnut is fine) with open grip, steel bedded, cross bolts, Pachmyr Decelorator

Barrel mounted sights (definately need help in this area)

Quick detach scope rings ( I have used the Warne Maxima, any opinions?)

Leupold VariX3 scope, no more than 2x7

MUST FEED AND EXTRACT WITH 100% RELIABILITY

Now that you understand my background and preferences a little what suggestions would you make to refine it to perfection. Not including fancy wood, engraving, etc... Please give specifics like make, model, and why if possible.
If a modification to factory gun is reccomended please specify why.

My goal is for a reliable, accurate rifle that is still affordable. That leaves a lot of the extras like figured stock and integral magazine/bottom metal out. I can flex the $1000 budget some. I will have to schmooze the wife pretty good to get that by her, but it is possible.

I know this is asking a lot but I learned a long time ago that is a lot easier to learn from anothers experience and not my own mistakes. Definately less painful. Thanks for your tolerance in me picking your brains.

500Grains,
I know the Bible says not to covet, but after seeing those pics it is pretty hard not to. It is beautiful. My "dream rifle" I hope to build someday mirrors your rifle very closely. Except I want a color cased receiver/trigger guard with 1/2 octagon/ 1/2 round barrel. The stock coulnt be more perfect in my opinion. Thanks for sharing the pics.

If you don't mind the weight of the factory guns I'm sure either the Winchester or CZ slicked up a bit would be just fine .

Or if you could find a used M-70 with the express-length action (300 weatherby for example) you could re-barrel with your prefered Shilen . Your accuracy potential would likely be higher going that route , and you should still be within your budget . Add sights and whatnot as time and budget allows.....

I'm going to use Leupold QR bases and rings on my .375 s . They look good and by all reports hold up well and return to zero well . They are also quite cost effective.......about $40 for 2 piece bases and 20 bucks for the rings . The low cost of the rings makes it pretty practical to swap scopes for group testing or hunting , or to have a backup scope (for those of us on a budget) .

M1Tanker, I've been following your thread off and on and was curious on how you were going solve your particular problem. I am happy for you on your choice of a Ruger RSM for such a good price. Some will say it is barrel heavy, cost too much, it's not a Mod. 70, etc. But in the end, you'll love it as most Ruger 375's just shoot great. Because of the weight, the recoil is a good sized push instead of punishing you and I won't say it's a maiden's carress either.

If I were you, I would get a CZ550... For $225. you can get one of Jim Brockmans drop in English style stocks in Laminate for it, his CZ pattern is copied form my pattern stock...and you could finish it yourself if you wanted to do that, as Laminate is quick and easy to finish..Thats one heck of a nice control feed rifle and it holds a weeks worth of ammo in the magazine..You could get into it for about $800 total and have a custom rifle or pretty close to one....

The other option is a say 80% shooter in a 375 H&H caliber pre 64 Mod. 70 for about $1500. give or take a hundred..I see them once in awhile...