My standard powder for reloading rifle cartridges has been IMR 4895. I am loading 375 H&H magnum for the first time. My old manuals show 67 Gr. as a maximum 2500 fps the new manuals show 61Gr as maximum 2400 fps. We are going to Africa in June any suggestions.
Doyle

Doyle:
Which bullet do you plan to use? Brass? Primer?
That may help with the powder question.
I am right where you are, but am using RL-15 with a 300gn Barnes TSX and Federal 215 primers based on "Geronomo's" recommendation.

Scott
I am using 300 Gr. Nosler spitzer partition Winchester brass CCI primer
Doyle

Doyle, I've shot and loaded more rounds for the 375HH then anyone I know of. I would begin by getting a tin of RL-15 as that is "THE" powder for the 375 whether the 270 grain or the 300 grain bullets are used.

The 270 grain bullets are plenty for all but the thickest skinned game and Buffalo. They actually perform much better on plains game and all NA game. We have had many more instant kills and game that just folds where it's standing with the higher velocity 270 grain loads then with the 300 grain loads.

The beauty of using both 270 and 300 grain bullets is that they are quite predictable. With the 300's zeroed at 100 meters, the 270's are usually right on at about 250-260 meters. Quite a good pair of bullet weights and functional trajectory paths.

I have been loading 75 grains of RL-15 with the 270 Swift Aframes getting 2800 plus fps, and 72 grains of RL-15 with the 300 Grain Swift Aframe getting 2600fps even. That 300 grain load is also good with the Hornady solids(fmj) as well.

Shot at 100 meters the three shot groups are in perfect allignment but the 270's are about 2.5" above the 300's.

I have found that accuracy is by a margin better when using only larger rifle primers and not Magnum primers. These loads have both been used in at least a dozen different 375's and not a single one I know of has had any problem or pressure.

As an interesting back up to this. The Hornady HEavy magnum 270grain factory loads also shoot into the same group as these handloads and Through My chronograph get just over 2800fps. So as a backup you could handload these and use the Hornady loads should you have to buy factory ammo.

Your seating depth and powder charge may need to match your gun. Mine is a Model 70 as have been all the others that have used these loads.

My go-to load with 300 gr. bullets is 81.0 gr. of H-4350 for 2540 fps. Out of many 375's that I have owned and loaded for, I have never seen one it did not shoot well in. My .02, Lee.

Doyle,

I checked my manuals and I too see some vary maxes....64-67.7.

I would get a box of 3oo grn hornadys and work up in 1/2 grn increments starting at 62.5. Load about three rounds at each. If you get all the way to 67.5 i would stop there. Whereever you get to back off by a grn and a half then work up with the noslers.

Eee which noslee load shoots the best and then load that one again varying seating depthe to find your accuracy load

JJ,
have you ever used IMR 4064 in the .375? I use the Speer 270 gr BTSP over 70 gr of it & it works pretty good on deer. Just wondering if you have used it & what your experiences were.

I think I might try your advice & try some RL-15 and see if I can get better accuracy.

In my Mod 70 I am using Win once fired brass, Fed Gold Mag primers, Barnes TSX 270 Gr with 75.7Gr of RL 15. Please proceed slowly as usual since each rifle is diffrent.

I have also had excellant luck with H4350. My Sako Deluxe will shoot 1/2 " 3shot goups at 100 YDS With 300 gr. Horn. and Woodliegh's. 79.0grs gives me 2610 across my chrony.I am using Remington brass. This rifle was very picky and did not like 4064, W760 4320 or RL15. It had me worried for quit some time till I tried H4350 wich has become my go to powder when the standards dont work in cases in this capacity range.

Paul K

Put me down as another fan of H-4350 in the 375 H&H. I use 79 gr with 300 gr Hornady solids, Sierra SPs or Nosler Partitions. Velocity runs 2540-2560 depending on bullet from a 22" barreled Pre-64 Mod 70. All will drop into a 1 1/2" group at 100 yds. With this load and the Hornady solid I have put a bullet into the back of the left ham of a buffalo and found the bullet under the skin on the brisket after penetrating all the major goodies in the buff including the heart. The main reason I like H-4350 is that it is one of Hodgdon's Extreme powders and I can chrono here in Idaho at 60 deg F and know that the velocity and pressure will not change appreciably in the 100 deg F heat of the Zambezi valley.

465H&H

Doyle: JUST got back from the range and wringing out my new chrono. My time and africa tested load of 76gr of H-414, Fed 215 primers, WW brass & 300gr Swifts gave me a nice tight cloverleaf under .5" with MV of 2662, 67 & 64 out of my Model 70. I loaded it for my friend who I watched put down a buff at 30 yards AND a kudu at 350. I also used it on my 2001 PG hunt and took everything up to and including eland. Also, I tested the load at 95 plus degrees temp here in the Florida summer as well as temps in the mid 30s. It's a great load. jorge

I'll betcha the powder you choose will be far less relevent to your success then knowing the "JTL" and tweaking that distance. (Jump To lands)

The X bullets can be phenominal or hidious with only a .010 difference. The powder is clearly important but if you have an accurate barrel and the JTL is correct the difference is night and day.

My free space in front of the bullet is .057 and my seating JTL for the swift is .040 off the lands and the TSX is .020 off the lands. If I were to set them any other way the accuracy at best is OKay. Once you find that sweet spot your powder choice becomes a little bit less relevent. Adjusting powder charges or types of powder is fine, but this dimension should be known for safe chambering and to assure you will not pull the bullet out of the shell with the rifling when you unload.

I doubt there is a single more accuracy dependant function then setting JTL dimension properly. Just measuring COL is not gonna do it either, you must have the JTL set consistant and to the dimension that the bullet and barrel like.

I've had excellent accuracy with RL-15 in my Whitworth, shooting either 270 Hornadys or TSXs. When I get to the book max. load and 2700 fps, the groups really tighten up. The TSX does take a touch more powder than the Hornady.

This rifle has a ridiculously long throat, BTW. I just load to a length that fits comfortably in the magazine, and get sub-inch groups so my results are different from JJ's in that regard!

I had a Sako years ago that loved W W 760. Now i have a CZ, tried h43-50 , 767 h414 and was getting 3 to 4" groups @ hoo yards, read some post and tried V V 160, 80 grains and get 1 1/2" with Swift A frames.

Typo,tried W W 760 h4350 and h414, V V 160 80 gr does very well the A Frame is not the most accurate bullet in the world.

I have only loaded 375 for about 20 years so don't have much experience with it. I use 260gr Nosler Partitions for softs and 300gr Woodleighs for solids. I really don't try to load for max with any round so my info probably won't be that valuable. I use Win brass Federal 215 primers and 75grs of IMR4350 for about 2600fps ( I don't have a chrono) for the 260gr load. Same load for 300gr. Penetration has been more than adequate with this load for me and I have had good luck with it. I have 5 375's and this load has been very accurate in all them. It regulated well in my Heym 88B. I shot a 20rnd group in my Mdl 70 SS Classic that measured .7. The 20 rnds were consecutive shots with no cool off other than time it takes to reload. My Mdl 70 only holds 3rnds due to stock design so it took a while to fire 20rnds. I shot one Elephant with a 375 which I lost due to poor brainshot and the follow-up heart/lung shot did not stop him before he got across a boundary into an area we could not enter. These were the only non-handloads I've used in Africa since my first hunt. They were Speer factory solids.

quote:

the A Frame is not the most accurate bullet in the world.

I beg to differ. Attached target refers, with a standard Model 70 and 300gr A Frames. jorge

A-frames have always been accurate for me and superior to Northforks and X-bullets in all my rifles.

I've had both good and bad luck with A-Frames. Shot them in numerous calibers and weights. Am going to see how they work in my .375 vs my load using Nosler Partitions. In my 6.5 WSM and .338 WSM (both wildcats), one in each is my "go to" load, and other A-Fs don't shoot well at all.

jorge, I agree my 375 will shoot sub moa with the 270 and 300 Aframes as well.

Not all barrels like all bullets, not all loads are created with proper seating depth or the powder charge to match the harmonics of that barrel. When you stumble upon the fit that creates that kind of accuracy with all the various combinations I sometimes think it's as much luck as skill!

I have not in over the years had success or confidence with the X bullets. They might have shot the single best group I have ever shot, but the next group with fouling could be horrible. Yet the next guy loves them, has no problems with them and no fouling issues? Go figure! Unfortunately we don't always decide what is best for our gun, ........our gun decides that for us.

I guess you have two options really. Pick the bullet you want and keep buying guns or barrels until you get one to work, or by the gun you want and keep buying bullets/components until you find the mix that will work. I gotta go the bullet/component route, guns get kinda spendy and take up too much room.

I have recently given the TSX bullet another try with the new PacNor barrel on my rifle. I have never shot a more accurrate bullet in my life. I have never shot better groups in my life with any rifle much less this old rifle!

This is a perfect example. The factory barrel fouled so bad with X bullets that I gave up before I shot the first 50 of them.

Yet I shot over 50 this weekend and it was never cleaned during that time. It's still shooting hole touching groups after fifty rounds!

Gotta sort through the mix of stuff to match up the perfect combination. Two years ago I would have never EVER thought I could shoot X bullets like this. But the new barrel and the right load.......wow what a match!

Jim: I HATED Xs bullets. None of them shot worth a damn, they fouled horribly and then when you finally found one that worked, they changed the ogive and back to square one. Then came the TSXs. Suffice to say, that I am in the process of changing EVERYTHING to TSXs. I just ordered some 300gr TSXs for my 375 and we'll see what happens as that A Frame performs SUPERBLY in the 375. As sated previously, I've seen it take a buff at 30 yards and a kudu at 350 so the TSX has some big shoes to fill. So far, I've switched in my 300s (WBY, H&H & Win), 7mm Weatherby, 416 Rigby and 3006. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by JJHACK:
jorge, I agree my 375 will shoot sub moa with the 270 and 300 Aframes as well.

Not all barrels like all bullets, not all loads are created with proper seating depth or the powder charge to match the harmonics of that barrel. When you stumble upon the fit that creates that kind of accuracy with all the various combinations I sometimes think it's as much luck as skill!

I have not in over the years had success or confidence with the X bullets. They might have shot the single best group I have ever shot, but the next group with fouling could be horrible. Yet the next guy loves them, has no problems with them and no fouling issues? Go figure! Unfortunately we don't always decide what is best for our gun, ........our gun decides that for us.

I guess you have two options really. Pick the bullet you want and keep buying guns or barrels until you get one to work, or by the gun you want and keep buying bullets/components until you find the mix that will work. I gotta go the bullet/component route, guns get kinda spendy and take up too much room.

I have recently given the TSX bullet another try with the new PacNor barrel on my rifle. I have never shot a more accurrate bullet in my life. I have never shot better groups in my life with any rifle much less this old rifle!

This is a perfect example. The factory barrel fouled so bad with X bullets that I gave up before I shot the first 50 of them.

Yet I shot over 50 this weekend and it was never cleaned during that time. It's still shooting hole touching groups after fifty rounds!

Gotta sort through the mix of stuff to match up the perfect combination. Two years ago I would have never EVER thought I could shoot X bullets like this. But the new barrel and the right load.......wow what a match!

TSX are a completely different animal, I was comparing A-frames to the standard X-bulllet, the TSX has been a tack driver for me under a variety of loads. I have yet to test it's performance on large game but I can speak to it's accuracy.

JJ and others,

What are your loads with the TSX bullets? I'd like to try them in my RSM. I've heard endless praise for this bullet in .30 cal also (JJ I remember your comments on that 168gr TSX in the '06). Seems to give nearly match-grade accuracy oftentimes.

Mitchell, whats a standard X bullet? I think that's an amusing statement, and not meant derogitory towards you. Barnes has had how many versions of the X bullet now? I'm thinking they are going to run out of three letter names pretty soon! XBT, TSX, XLC, MRX etc etc.

They keep pumping out prototyes for us to test for them. In the end, I believe they have finally struck gold with this TSX. At least in this rifle of mine they are magic!

The 300 grain TSX shoots to subMOA with every powder I've tried so far. They are flat amazing me. I'm just loading the 300 grain banded soilds for a range session next weekend, if I can get them to shoot to the same point of impact as the TSX, I'll be done with my load development for my 375. I'll just stock up on both bullets and be happy with it.

quote:

Originally posted by JJHACK:
Mitchell, whats a standard X bullet? I think that's an amusing statement, and not meant derogitory towards you. Barnes has had how many versions of the X bullet now? I'm thinking they are going to run out of three letter names pretty soon! XBT, TSX, XLC, MRX etc etc.

They keep pumping out prototyes for us to test for them. In the end, I believe they have finally struck gold with this TSX. At least in this rifle of mine they are magic!

JJ, valid point you make. I was referring to the original plain old boattail X-bullet, all copper without the bands.

JJ, Jorge, Fjold, etal.,

You guys caused me to do a search for reports on
the terminal effects of the TSX. Guess I'm going to have to work up a few loads with them this summer. Never thought I'd consider switching to unleaded! I think the 270 grain .375 would be a good place to start.
Rich Elliott

RL-15 is the powder of choice for my 375. I think its 72 grs behind a 300 gr. Nosler for 2550 fps. Deadly on thin skinned game. Never used on buff. I have a 458 for that.

Jorge,
I don't mean to hijack this thread but tell me about the TSX in your 300 Wby????????????????? Game shot, reaction, ranges etc. I am always a little leary of a Barnes X opening at long range. I know guys, I'm just a little paranoid. I usually use the Nosler Partition.

Magnum Hunter1, if you think the 300's are good on thin skinned game, try the 270's at over 2800fps. 75 grains of RL-15 with a large rifle primer about .030 off the lands and you will be in heaven.........along with everything that gets hit by that bullet!

The 270's by a very large margin provide massive impact on plains game compared to the 300 grain 2550fps bullets. The speed and the size of the mushrooms are an amazing whack to nearly anything alive you will hit with that rifle.

MGH1: All I have are a couple of hogs for a kill, but the TSX is BY DESIGN, able to open up, even at MVs as low as 1700 fps. I plan to test it further this month on hogs again. On my 300 Weatherby, I can load it up (and not hot) to about 3300 fps with Zero pressure problems, Weatherby brass and IMR 7828. My go to load, is a bit slower but very accurate and more economical. I use Rem nickel brass and about 81gr of RL-22 and that gives me 3225 fps in about 75 deg temp. jorge

Guys,

Am new to the 375 reloading bit and wondered, since so many mentioned 'off the lands' distances, if the bullet has a cannelure, shoudl one always use it for best results and what about crimping?? Of your most accurate loads, do they use the cannelure or??

Thanks, Baxter

Baxter; All that "off the lands' stuff frightens and confuses me. I load for HUNTING and not for paper punching. If a rifle shoots MOA or better I'm happy. I either seat the bullet to the max length of the magazine box, or I just duplicate whatever factory bullet I'm trying to duplicate and measure it for OAL. Regading crimping, I crimp everything just about with a Lee Factory Crimp Die and especially anything from the 338 on up. Works for me. jorge

The 270 grain .375 bullets have been touted as better killers of soft-skinned game (up to and including lion) since the '50's, especially so in factory form, regardless of brand. Utilizing today's 270 mono's, which maintain good length (SD) despite the lesser weight, many hunters are reporting equal or better penetration than that of the 300's which start out at say 200 fps slower. I'm talkin' softs & solids. I'm talkin' Barnes. It's unusual if RL-15 isn't the velocity champ with the 270 grainers but IMR-4320 is sometimes more accurate at say -60fps and Varget likewise at -100 fps. Not only is .030 off the lands not recommended by the manufacturer, it most often won't coincide with the cannelure and/or a properly placed crimp.

A very important thing to realize about your rifle and it ammunition is that there are a hella lotta tolerances involved, and many by unrelated contributors.

Your typical factoy ammo is going to be made to the minimum tolerance to fit into every rifle without any problem.

Your typical factory rifle chamber is going to be on the large side of the scale to fit any factory ammo.

These two are going in opposite directions for accuracy! It's one of the reasons once fired brass usually shoots better then new ammo. It's sized to now fit the exact dimensions of the chamber. The same can be said for the use of neck sizing dies.

No two rifles are going to have the same throat length, not even from the same brand. There again are tolerances to fit within for each dimension.

Barnes suggests a starting point of .050 off the lands and should be within the .030 to .070 as printed right on the load data sheet packed in with the bullets. You cannot know where the best accuracy will come from until you load various seating depths and try them.

My recent TSX loads were set to the suggested .050 level and shot a 1.5" plus group consistantly. I loaded a dozen more 6 of them at .040 and six at .060

The .060 were no better, maybe worse then the .050 but the .040 shot about an inch. So I loaded up anohter 6 of them at .030 and shot a single 3/8" hole for 3 shots. Thinking it may have been a fluke, because I'm just not that good a shot. I loaded a dozen at the .030 measure. Another 3/8" or maybe just under a 1/2" group on the first try.

I have a dual cross hair scope. So there is no holdunder at 100 meters. Seeing a staple in the target board I shoot at, I was able to hit the staple, then on the next shot I aimed at the hole I just put into the target. I doubled that hole.

Not a bad level of accuracy just by adjusting the seating depth from .050 to .030 Seems impossible that little bit could do the trick. However it also got worse moving the other way too. This is insane accuracy for a hunting rifle, but the TSX bullets seem to like this barrel and this load.

As far as the crimp groove I don't need it. I don't care where it is. I just crimp anyplace I want with the Lee factroy crimp die and it's locked exactly where I place it. The TSX bullets I have not crimped and will not likely crimp them. They are extremely snug and very long. Seated with those bands on the surface I cannot pull them out easily with my bullet pulling tool or pliers. That's tight enough for me. The TSX bullets have no crimp grouve but you could possibly crimp into the bands if seated out far enough. My optimum distance just so happens to be on the band not the groove.

Reloading is as complex or as simple as you want to make it. I'm no bench rest shooter but it's as easy to load for this 3/8" capability as it is to load for the 1.5" group once you know the best seating depth. If you're going to go thorugh the time and effort to do all the case prep, measuring powder, and loading the ammo why not get the most out of that effort?

JJ - Essentially, you're using accuracy loading techniques for cartridges utilizing bullets that are not designed for crimping and applying them to your .375 and you are able to do so, only because your magazine box is allowing such and that you are unconcerned with the crimp. That last groove in your .375 TSX bullet is positioned for crimping. Crimping is intended to keep the bullet from "walking" when exposed to heavy recoil while sitting in the magazine box. If you feel your bullets are immune to walking and opt to forego a proper crimp, that's your business. It is my feeling that the grooved bullets seat much more easily and therfore, will "walk" more easily, if left uncrimped. In the majority of big bore chambers, you'll find the magazine box will be the limiting factor in your overall cartridge length, regardless of whether or not you wish to crimp. This is due to the greater freebore in such rifles. In way of example, how far off the lands are those 450 grain X bullets in your Lott or don't you crimp them either? Best Regards ... Nick

The loading sheet with the TSX bullets states clearly that there are no crimp groves on these bullets but if they so happen to set to the depth that a groove is at then you can use that groove for a crimp.

To my recollection many of the X bullets had no crimp groove and are so hard that a conventional seating and crimping die did not really do much. The Lee factory crimp die will squeeze a groove into them though.

The Lott is crimped with the absolute strongest crimp I can muster with my Redding T-7 press and the Lee factory crimp die. I do use the crimp groove on them. It may be approaching a molecular bond! ...............( just kidding)

The grooved X bullets have not seated easier for me. Just the opposite in fact. Mine are so tight that I cannot get them out without a major effort as stated in a previous post.

I have not measured the JTL in the Lott, don't really care about shooting one hole groups as much as having the loaded shells remain assembled( for this rifle anyway). The OAL of the shells and the magazine box limits the amount I could seat them further out anyway. With only peepsights on the Lott it's not as if I would be trying to shoot bench rest groups with it.

Interesting observation on the TSX bullets seating so easy for you. My neck sizer must be on the tight side or yours on the loose side? If it were not for the boattail bevel on the base these might not go into the case without crushing a few now and then! Once seated it's a major effort to yank them out of the case. I know this because when I worked up the loads I pulled a whole bunch of bullets that were not accurate. I had to get the powder back to reload with.

Another issue is that the cases powder volume is high and the bullet will not sink deeper into the case. The OAL is near identical to the magazine box length. X bullets don't get deforemnd tips so the fit into the box, and the fit into the shell just seems to be perfect!

Just lucky I suppose, and it's about time I had some good luck too!

Perhaps the neck expander on your die is a touch on the small side (?). I've seen it before. Another factor from my side is, at the shop, we use 60 degree case mouth beveling tools, rather than 45's. Got in the habit due to those blue coated XLC's getting scraped too badly during seating. The TSX's seat easier for much the same reasons they operate at less pressure for a given loading and minimize deposit in the barrels at firing ... less physical engagement. Good talkin' to you, my friend!

Nickadu:
Following up on your comment from above regarding the TSX 270 gn, the tech rep from Barnes has told me (on two separate occasions) that he recommends the 270 gn for everything (PG and DG) as it has greater penentration and faster shot recovery for follow-ups. It is hard for me to consider using a 270 through on a shoulder shot on DG, but that is what the man says, based on reports from Africa!

When loading the TSX bullets, I also get a real tight fit in the case and I also wouldn't be able to get them in without the bevel.

I'm just about to order more 300 grain TSX bullets and now I guess I have to order some 270 grainers also.

Although for 100 fps is it worth it?

From the IMR data
270 g bullet 69 grains of IMR4064 = 2655 and 78.5 grains of IMR4350 = 2710 fps
300 g bullet 67 grains of IMR4064 = 2525 and 78 grains of IMR4350 = 2620 fps