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I am helping a friend and his 3 sons get ready for an African Plains game hunt. Yesterday we were shooting off of sticks. 3 of the bolt rifles were "regular" bolt rifles,ie. Rem 700, Browning A Bolt and a Sisk custom Win Mod 70. The fourth rifle was a Blaser R 93. With the straight push/pull operation of the Blaser it was MUCH easier to reload the chamber after firing with out disturbing your aim. It was also MUCH faster to reload, just a quick "snick/snack and the rifle is ready to fire again. I have noticed this same thing when shooting prone off a pack or in a hasty sling on your elbows. The more I use/shoot the Blaser R 93 the better I like it.  DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | ||
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You and Walter love the Blazer, does that tell you anything...  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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You keep talking like that, and the DRSS, will drum you out.  Hog Killer Note to self: get a double rifle. IGNORE YOUR RIGHTS AND THEY'LL GO AWAY!!! ------------------------------------ We Band of Bubbas & STC Hunting Club, The Whomper Club | |||
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My, my, surely you wouldn't let those doubles get lost in the bush just to hold a Blaser! My, my, the thoughts that cause peoples minds to wonder. | |||
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I surely do not want to get in Dutch with the DRSS.  They know how I feel about hunting with double rifles, and that I believe the British Double Rifle made from @ 1900 to 1940 or so are the finest hunting rifles ever made by man. As far as Bolt Rifle Trash goes I too like British Mausers and German sporters made between the wars..... Although I did see a couple of 404 rifles with color case hardned actions AND bolts. They were marked Wilkins I think... Looked and handled nice. But for a rough duty, horse back, ATV, taking on an airplane rifle I like the features of the Blaser. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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No need to hide behind the couch my man, welcome to the club of the enlightend. | |||
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I shoot about 1/3 as well with sticks as I do offhand, so if I see a pair of shooting sticks I will just toss them in the campfire. | |||
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Dan, That's because a) either no one has shown you how to do it properly, b) you have a mental block about it or c) they were the worst set of shooting sticks in the world. If you consider the physics...pretty hard to hold a rifle off hand more steadily then with forend supported by a tripod. Ray says the same thing...about nit being able to shoot off them and I tried to give him the same advice...but he is older and crotchety than you are and fundamentally a lost cause.  Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I can't shoot off sticks either. I've tried in Africa twice, and I've built a set and practiced at home. They're too slow, and I always shoot high with them. The one animal(Blue Wildebeest) I ever shot off sticks had to be finished with a THS off hand. After seeing me shoot offhand, the PH never asked me to use sticks again. JD | |||
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Here is another old fart who doesn't shoot as well off sticks, as I do snap shooting off hand, or sitting with my elbows rested on my knees! Haveing said that I find most who shoot the worst off sticks, are those who rest the foreend of the rifle dirrectly on the sticks. One must use the sticks as a rest for your hand, holding the foreend of your rifle! No rifle shoots properly when rested on a hard surface. The usually shoot high! I have sticks, and practice with them, but my tripod African type, have two of the sticks above the joint padded, and a soft sling between the tips, to rest the back of my hand. The third leg is cut off just above the joint of the three legs! In Africa, I seldom use them, unless haveing to put a bullet through a small hole in the bush, when a standing position is all I have, with no handy rest! In most case I simply drop to my butt, and knee position, and shoot, if the way is clear. ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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Mac, I would like to see you do that with my 500 Jeffery! Can we meet!!!! square shooter | |||
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I shoot worse off of sticks. It is an unnatural and uncomfrotable position fo rme. I used to shoot metallic sihlouettes in competition and practiced shooting off hand almost every day for a while. At the time I could sight in a rifle off hand. I was much worse and much slower off sticks. | |||
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That does present quite a mental picture! I don't think it will be filmed, however, because you will not see me shooting a 500 Jeffery from any position! Not that I'm afraid of the round, it is that I simply see no need for anything larger that a 500NE, especially in a bolt rifle. The double is heavier on average for the same chambering than in a bolt rifle! Since I don't think a 500 Jeffery will kill a Buffalo any deader, or quicker than a 500NE in a double rifle, I see no need for it at all, in my vault! That is not to say the 500 Jeffery is somehow useless to anyone other than me! I do just fine with my retinas in place, and find I see a buffalo coming better if my eyes are not crossed!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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I missed my first animal in Africa (Zimbabwe) shooting from sticks. A blue wildebeest. They take a little getting used to. I prefer the sitting position, but did manage to shoot some other animals off of sticks. Doug | |||
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I recently shot a 500 Jeffery bolt rifle with two different factory loads. The recoil was not painful at all, but it was a high speed wack. I found it more and faster than the 450 No2, the two 470's and the 500/465 I shot on the same day. I would not want to use a hard kicking bolt rifle for DG as the recoil recovery, and reloading takes too long for me. As I like to get close I prefer the two quick shots of a double rifle. I just think it is the best tool for the job. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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I tried to qualify with a 1903 Springfield in a NRA High Power match, but couldn't quite get the manipulation of the bolt down in the time frame allowed. I had already made Master with an M-1, M-14, and M-16, but I needed to round out the 20 Century rifles with a Master badge with a "bolt gun." This old fart saw me working the bolt and suggested I should try ditch digging over trying to qualify with a bolt gun. I talked to him, calmed him down and he showed me how to manipulate a bolt gun. He was at Guadalcanal with a Springfield and being double distinguished, I listened. He had me place my shooting finger on the bolt after the shot. My thumb went on the port (left) side of the cocking piece, and the bolt was manipulate. The trigger finger falls, naturally back on the trigger after ejection adn loading of a new round. After a couple of tries I found I was firing too fast. I slowed down the time between shots, concentrated on the front sight, and now I have my Master rating with my Springfield. I see people grab the bolt with their whole hand and shudder. He was hunting the MOST dangerous game and survived. I watched, listened, learned, and now I am. Swift, Silent, & Friendly | |||
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Never have understood any problems with sticks. Man, they are just the steady rest needed. Knees and the rest are a far worse second best. hacksawtom: great anecdote and we all should learn more from keeping our mouths shut and ears opened. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Funny how anyone could find shooting off sticks less accurate than offhand.  I shoot fairly well offhand, I guess. I find using sticks is like using a stand-up bench rest though. I don't practice with them much anymore cuz its like cheating.  They're almost as boring as shooting off the bench.I recently picked up a cheap mono-pod to use with my video camera. It has a V at the top so you can use it for shooting...man, is it deadly. Its practical too...really lightweight, and it adjusts from 14 inches to about 5 feet so its good for sitting, kneeling or prone. Cheers Canuck | |||
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Hi Canuck What brand and model of monopod? I'm in the market myself right now. Cheeers from a Canuck in Sweden, jpb | |||
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I wasn't comfortable off sticks when I started either. It does take some getting used to. I probably shoot better sitting out to 200yds than off sticks, more practice I think. LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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Hi jpb, I'm not 100% sure. I picked it up on a whim one day while X-mas shopping at WalMart. I'll check for a brand name at home tonight. It looks just like the Stoney Point one I have seen in catalogues, but it was under 1/2 the price. You wouldn't happen to be the same CDN that is friends with Mats, would ya? If so, say Hi to him for me. Haven't heard from him in a looooong time. Cheers, Canuck | |||
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I picked up a mono pod, at the DSC this year. The only markings on it are, LEVELLOCK. It is about 29" collapsed and will extend to about 67". There are three sections with two levered clamps. Fast adjusting, easy to carry or use as a walking staff. I think that they also make a simular bi-pod. Hog Killer IGNORE YOUR RIGHTS AND THEY'LL GO AWAY!!! ------------------------------------ We Band of Bubbas & STC Hunting Club, The Whomper Club | |||
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I always hold the forend with my off hand to prevent the bounch you get from shooting off a hard or springy platform. I have tried a Stoney Point monopod vs standing offhand- It eliminated a lot of the up and down but seemed to exacerbate the side to side problem. The little Stoney point collapsible bipod is pretty slick if have time to set it up. I can shoot pretty well sitting with a sling so I don't think having a small bipod is essential. The long shooting sticks have to be better than shooting off hand over tall grass or brush beyond 100 yards. Paul | |||
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