Guys,

Can anyone out there help me with a few pics of FMJ bullet failures, preferably on elephants or other DG please.

I need them for publication so also need permission to publish.... I will give relevent credit.

Steve,

You need to define failures. Did not kill the elephant, deformed in some manner or????

465H&H

Sorry buddy. I meant any deformation including fishtailing, breakup or any failure whatsoever.

The more I have to choose from the better!

Steve,

Based on that, I would suggest you change your request to show any bullet that shows any deformation from the factory original except rifling marks and let others decide whether it was a failure. I'm sure you would get an entirely different set of pictures from me than from Gerard.

465H&H

Steve,

You may be setting yourself up for a "logical fallacy," where you assume what you are trying to prove.

I would agree with advice from 465 and request photos of any similar "failure" in a monolithic solid.

Elephant molars are pretty tough stuff!

Andy

Sorry guys, I didn't explain myself very well.

They say you should only write about what you know. Consequently I'm not writing about bullets as such because I don't believe I know enough about them to write informatively. Nor am I trying to prove an argument of any kind.

Gerard (and a few others here) has/have forgotten more about bullets and ballistics than I'll ever know and I usually get lost about the time these fundis say. "it's quite simple really" and by the time they get to the 2nd para, I feel like a deer caught in the headlights.

I'm working on a small book that just touches on different bullet construction as a small part of it and want to explain the difference between mono and FMJ solids in very simple terms.

I figure the best way to do that is just with a few pics of recovered mono and FMJ bullets.

I've got more than enough mono pics and break ups etc but need 2 or 3 FMJ pics that show proof of fishtailing etc.

I don't intend to get technical at all, just to show a few pics so the reader understands the differences.

As mentioned, I'll be happy to give credit where necessary.

Steve,

We recover solids from dead animals. In that sense, no solid failed if only one shot was fired. When we recover solids from dead animals where multiple shots were fired, we observe why some of them failed to get the job done.

In that way we learn that certain things are good to have in a solid and some things are bad. We have learned that when bullets bend, break, tumble, lose their cores or split the jackets, this is bad. When a solid behaved like this and only one shot was fired and the animal died quickly, we say it was good fortune. The next time we may not be so lucky. Mostly they worked but sometimes this type of deformation results in a failure.

When we recover solids that have deformed, we must ask whether the deformation, whatever form it takes, contributed to the performance of the solid or detracted from it. When we consistently recover solids that behave in a particular predictable manner and the animal always dies from a single shot, we learn that this type of deformation has desireable characteristics.

So, if the only deformation a particular brand ever exhibits is a setback of the meplat, to a lesser or greater degree and this setback never results in the solid tumbling or curving and it does not inhibit penetration, this is good. If the same controlled set back prevents the bullet from shedding chunks and breaking in half, it is good.

It's quite simple really....

465H&H will say that, when solids deform, you need luck to be on your side to have a successful outcome. This is true. It is a good thing then that GSC FNs come with luck already attached to the package. No hoping it will be there, it is designed in.

Mate,

I reckon you should have started that one with 'it's quite simple really' because I started feeling like a deer caught in the headlights just after I read my name!



What I after is one or two pics of used FMJ bullets that show bending, deformation, seperation and/or fishtailing and permission to use them.

Bullets have to be one of the most interesting, frustrating and complex parts of hunting of all and I take my hat off to all you clever buggers out there who understand it as well as you do!

Steve,

this picture demonstrates why a FMJ bends, expands from the base, or squirts lead out the rear. 450 Ackley at 2400 fps, 1-14 twist, 500 grain steel jacketed Hornady, la granage stop box.



And this shows a pair of 458's recovered from my elephant in 2005. An undfired 450 grain North Fork truncated cone FN next to one that had over 62 nches penetration at 2550 fps.

Next to that a 465 grain TCCI (original A Square)at 2500 fps. the mushroomed TCCI hit a molar, the other was plucked out of skin from off side skull (39 inches penetration).



PM if you would like to use either and I will send you a high resolution format.

Andy

Shakari,one of my old posts may help-read it to the end.
http://forums.accuratereloadin...1411043/m/643101959?

Thanks guys, both to those who replied here and to those who emailed me with pics.

Wombat PM sent.