I have determined my antelope load for Tanzania, the 260gr Partition powered by RL15. Accuracy is OK, velocity is near 2700fps; however, my 300gr round nose soft point for buff is 8" to the left.

Query: Could I use the 260Par for buffalo, lion, etc. as well as antelope? Your experiences with this bullet?

(If I did this, it means I only have to find a suitable solid, then (1) play with seating depth, (2) play with velocity and try to bring them together.

Comment to scope makers and high tech rifle makers: We need a mechanism that senses the bullet as it loads and automatically selects the correct scope setting. (Target front; T72 tank; load sabot!)

Alternative: a scope that will take two scope settings and you can manually switch. Kudude

I've played the "one gun-two loads" game all my life and rarely won at it. I always have it loaded or sighted for the wrong thing and now believe that the best idea is to have a 'one gun-one load" theory and shoot everything with that one load.

Taking two rifles to Africa isn't that hard and that would be my suggestion. If however you're determined to use the .375 for everything I'd load it for Buff (300 Grain A-Frames or Northforks) and shoot everything with that load....yes even Steenbok!

You could use the new kahles scope that can be set with multiple zeros for different loads? But, that would not be too great if you have to back up a soft with a solid at a fleeing buff. you should try a 300gr soft and see if it give you same poi as a solid. good luck

Don't complicate your life. Find a quality 300 grain soft and a suitable 300 grain solid that shoot close to same point of impact. You can use the solid on small animals.

Regards,

Terry

Just make it simple. Use 300 grain solids for everything and don't look back.

Find a different antelope bullet...if you want to have two soft point loads that is ok but try.

Give the 270 grn Barnes a try.

Just do what Terry says.

There is absolutely no reason to complicate things by loading two types of bullets.

bwanajcj,

The Kahles scope only compensates for elevation, not windage. His post said his load was shooting 8" LEFT. Therefore the Kahles will offer nothing in this regard.

DC300

taking two differnt loads to africa almost guarantees that you'll have the wrong load in the gun when you want the other, and switching cartridges can go a long way towards losing a chance at a shot if you happen to have the wrong one in when the wrong animal for the bullet presents itself.

within practical hunting ranges, what will a 260gr bullet do that the 300gr won't do?

300 gr SAF for everything if you can't find a 300 gr solid to match the poi. Keep it simple. I would not try to have two zeros on my scope. I would invariably have the wrong zero for the right load when the buffalo hits the fan. Having two loads that are an inch apart is one thing but much more than that and I say take one load and use it.

I´ve used 270 and 300gr loads in my .375 and I´ll probably be sticking to the 300grainers in the future. Why? It´s easier and the difference is minor if any at all.

My advice to your question is stay away from all partition bullets for Buff or any large game. They were needed when velocitys increased do to the arivial of magnum calibers. Today we have many very well designed bullets that dont rely on the soft frontal part to expand and therefore seperating from the base along the way. You want to drive your bullets as deep as possible, and having the bullet stay together and hopefully exiting the animal for a better blood trail. I agree with the rest stay with 300 grns and know where they hit out to 200 yds. Keep your equipment as simple and straight forward as possible, these mil. spec. scopes are not needed in the game fields as i see it. The .375 shoots flat enough that hold over will not be a problem. If your 270 loads are right on and your 300 loads are 8" to the left, either you are doing something wrong,or the bullets you are using are defective. Your .375 should be putting them into the same p.o.i within an inch or so of each other. Hope this helps you out. Charlie

What about two scopes?

DC300,
I thought the dials to set the adjustments could be used for either elevation or windage? But, I was just on the kahles site and you are correct. Oh well it was a needlessly complicated solution to a simple problem. 300 grain softs and solids, problem solved.

Kudude

I've shot the 375 pretty steadily for 25 years and can tell you that changing loads can move your POI wildly. Also at normal African shooting distances your lighter bullet wil have little advantage over the 300. As others have stated stay with a good 300 grain bullet and you'll be much happier in the long run. And please don't take any trick scopes. Use the KISS principal and have a great safari.

Regards,

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by T.Carr:
Don't complicate your life. Find a quality 300 grain soft and a suitable 300 grain solid that shoot close to same point of impact. You can use the solid on small animals.

Regards,
Terry

Ditto!!! One rifle - one load. One trajectory and one zero. No need to complicate your life.

-Bob F.

Jack O'Connor once said that the 375 H&H would normally put all bullets in the same POI...That was one of his great mistakes, I have seen precious few that would do that, I have one that will, but it took me about 30 years to find it....Most won't even put a solid and a soft in the same place...

I addressed this issue in another thread if I recall...I would just shoot the 285 gr. Northfork soft on Buffalo, and plainsgame and see if the Nothfork cup point or flatnose would come to zero, they seem to want to...

quote:

Originally posted by kudude:

Alternative: a scope that will take two scope settings and you can manually switch. Kudude

There is at least one mount that lets you do this, but no scope of which I'm aware. Regardless, like everyone else has said, don't make your life harder than it is. Get good with one load and stick with it.

Russ

You can play around until you're blue in the face trying to find loads with different bullets that will hit the same POI.

On the other hand, my .375 will put three factory loads, one with a 272 grain soft point bullet, one with a 300 grain soft point, and one with a 300 grain solid, all on a grapefruit at 100 yards--so, you can get lucky.

I'll chime in with a vote for one load as well. My 375 shoots 300's and 270's close enough that it wouldn't make much difference while hunting, but if I use 235's or 260's, I would have to re-sight for each. Not worth it.

DGK

I have a sako that shoots 260 noslers six inches higher than 300 bearclaws at 100 yards. When I use that rifle I just use 300 softs and solids for everything. I did pick up a pre 64 winchester that shoots 260"s just three inches higher than 300"s which is about right. I still only take 300's to africa because I have more important things to worry about than thinking about which is in the chamber at the time .

Gentlemen,

There are a few rifles, of any calibers, that will actually put all bullets, regardless of weight or make, in approximately the same point of impact on a target.

But, the majority will not.

It is not dependant on the caliber at all, but on that particular rifle.

Jack O'Connor and Elmer Keith were my heros - and still are.

But, in my own experience, a lot of what they have written is not exactly correct.

I gotta go with Terry on this one. My experience-Federal 300 gr TBBC & 300 gr Slegehammers. The target won't tell one from the other. On the other hand, shot some 270 gr softies this weekend the M70 was 4" right of X.
One other point...."ROUND" nose softs for Mbogo? I wouldn't.

I had a 2 loads for a rifle that hit the same place. I took the action out of the stock for cleaning and put it back with the approx the same torque on the screws, and checked the zero with one of the loads.

After missing with the other load I checked and rechecked. Those 2 loads never again coincided...

I want to thank you all for your advice. I guess my expectations were too high when my 9.3x62 put the 250BT's 2" high at 100 and put the 286 Partitions, solids and round nose soft points pretty much dead on at 100 yards with the same sight settings. Life in that regard is GOOD!

Because of the crazy airline gun rules (no three gun in a case), you have to take two case to take three guns. If you are taking two cases, why not take four guns? Well Tanz will only let you import two guns and a shot gun. And you can't bring in two guns of the same caliber.

Therefore, for my 21 day, full-card hunt, I had to choose two rifles that could, if necessary, handle everything from the smallest to the largest. I am reliably advised that some shots may be 300yds+. Therefore, a reliable antelope load (250BT in 9.3 and 260Partition in 375HH) was a necessity, not an option.

What I will have to do with the 375 is zero for the 300 gr solid and soft point (FC Premium sledgehammers and bearclaws). I'll take the 260's in case the 9.3 breaks, and after buffalo and lion, re-zero for the 260's. I'll use my 9.3 for my GP rifle and will actually use it for everything the ph will let me take with it, and back up to the 375, which will be my son's primary rifle on his buff hunt.

Concerning the use of two different loads, that is relatively easy. I typically load the magazine of the 9.3 with heavy loads (286 Partitions), but don't put a round in the chamber. My 9.3 will hold five rounds down. I load four. I keep my 250's when hunting dangerous game or when in dangerous game territory on the ammo carrier on the stock (along with several solids). If there is an opportunity for a shot at close range (0-200yds) I use the heavy load (286 Partitions in 9.3). This shoots dead on @ 100yds and about 3"low at 200yds. It certainly will kill anything I hit with it.

If the target is further away than 200 yds, there is generally time enough to load two 250's. If you haven't hit it in two shots, you won't!

As stated above, the reason for the 260's in the 375 is in case the 9.3 breaks. In that case, I have loads that will reach out and touch something at 300 yds. This is part of the redundancy built into a good plan. I truly believe in and practice the KISS principle.

As always, the advise around AR is always well considered and succinct. Thanks again. Kudude

Kudude,

ZDoe syour 375 have dQDR mounts. If you want I can loan you a scope for that you can use for the 260 grn ballistic tips?

quote:

posted by kudude:

Therefore, for my 21 day, full-card hunt, I had to choose two rifles that could, if necessary, handle everything from the smallest to the largest. I am reliably advised that some shots may be 300yds+. Therefore, a reliable antelope load (250BT in 9.3 and 260Partition in 375HH) was a necessity, not an option.

kudude,

It's your money and your hunt so do what you want to do and what makes you feel comfortable. That said, I still think you are making things more complicated than need be by worrying so much about the trajectory of the lighter bullets versus the heavier bullets. I realize you are not using the 300 gr .375" Nosler Partition but I thought I would show you a comparison of trajectories just as food for thought.

260 gr Nosler Partition BC = .314

10 mph cross wind

300 gr Nosler Partition BC = .398

10 mph cross wind

( Ballistic tables are from www.realguns.com )

As you can see, the 260 gr Partition really doesn't shoot all that much flatter than the 300 gr Partition. I don't have the ballistic coefficients of the 300 gr Sledgehammers and Bearclaws handy to run as a comparison to the 260 gr Partition. But, I think this helps illustrate why so many posters have recommended just using one bullet weight in each rifle.

Just trying to be helpful.....

-Bob F.

Bob,
My objective was a load that shot dead on out 100yds for dangerous game, and one that shot long range (+2@100,+2@200,-6@300) with the same sight settings. I wanted to load my rifle with DG loads, in case, and have the others for reaching out using the same settings on the sight.

Unfortunately, in the 375, when my long range load is smack where I'd want it (+2@100), the dangerous game load is 8" left of the 260's POI. Clearly, I can't have that because it is most critical to hit with the DG loading. The antelope may get away, but that buff can HURT you.

Using one soft point load was the reason I asked about 260Partition performance on buff and lion. If it proved to be enough bullet, then I'd use it almost exclusively, with some solids. But, alas, it seems the 260 isn't the bullet for buff.

Plan B, zero for the 300gr solids and soft points, and after the lion and buff hunt, if the 9.3 breaks, rezero the 375 for 260's (or snitch springs off of the 375 to fix the 9.3. Oh the joys of taking all Mausers!

But I essentially agree with you and the others, and plan to have a heavy bullet immediately available. It will be zeroed point blank to 100yds, which will put it about 3" low at 200yds. If it is further away, we will use the 9.3.

thanks again to you, Bob, and all the others you commented. It crystalized my thinking. Kudude


PS: The BC for the 300gr round nose is right at .300, very close to the 260gr. k-d

Bob F

Those trajectory figures will make the 260 grain look a little better if you have both bullets at the same hight at 100 yards as opposed to being zeroed at the same 200 yards.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Mike375:
Bob F

Those trajectory figures will make the 260 grain look a little better if you have both bullets at the same hight at 100 yards as opposed to being zeroed at the same 200 yards.

Mike

Technically correct, Mike. But, jeez, guys! Am I missing something here? We're talking about just over one bullet diameter difference in trajectory until you're over 250 yards and less than an inch @ 300 by Bob's charts. Unless someone's writing a Doctoral Thesis or shooting off the bench?
Bear Claws & Sledgehammers all the way (at least in .375 H&H).
Dave

Well, in fairness to kudude, he did state that "The BC for the 300gr round nose is right at .300, very close to the 260gr."

So, for the bullet he his using, the trajectory with a BC of .300 looks like this:

300 gr .375" bullet BC = .300

10 mph cross wind

Due to the lower BC, the trajectory is not quite as good (of course) as that for the 300 gr Nosler Partition that I used in my example above. Still, though, we're only looking at about a 2 inch difference in trajectory at 300 yards between the 260 gr Nosler Partition and a 300 RN with a BC of .300.

Mike375,
I do understand your point. I was just trying to compare/show the trajectories for the different bullets with the same zero range to give an "apples to apples" comparison.

-Bob F.

Bob F

The true "apples to apples" is comparing then with the same hight abobe aim at 100 yards. If you pick an equal zero range for either then you make the slower bullet look better.

On that first chart you would need to drop the 300 grainer from 2.6" high at a 100 down to 2.2" and that would make it another 1.2" lower at 300 yards.

A good way is to put both at the same height at 100 yards and then look at the ranges where both have dropped the same. It is quite amazing how small the gains are even when comparing velocity differences of say 2700 Vs 3300 which I guess is why most people do OK with 30/06 as compared to faster calibres.

Mike