I was oiling my guns today and of the many rifles I have owned I am left with my favourites a Charles Osbourne 404J and a mint condition 1951 BRNO in 7x57. These have been my most accurate rifles and have served me well. I regret selling a Whitworth 458WM that killed everything within 50 yards and was again exceptionally accurate as an open-sighted rifle. There was a 470 I should have kept and a VC 500 I was happy to get rid of as it spent more time in France than in Africa. I have seen expensive rifles that were not worth shit and cheap guns that were point. Steve416 has the ugliest synthetic Jarret 416WM that I have used and is a tack driver. Basically walnut and engraving do not make a rifle.

I love the old 1951 Brnos in 7x57 and older Mausers by J.P. Sauer and sons..The 404 Jefferys and my worn out 30-06 pre 64 Mod 70 Winchester, metal looks like stainless steel and the stock like drift wood and still shoots 1/2" 3 shot groups every time..

There is accuracy and then there is obsession over insignificant increments.

I used to fiddle with dangerous game loads chasing .5 MOA. I can’t shoot offhand or off sticks that well, and after shooting out a barrel on a .416 Rigby, if it shoots well enough to be able to reliably hit a killing shot to the limits of what I am willing to take, I tend to say good enough.

I know fiddling around I could get my rifle back to .5 MOA. As it is, it’s reliable and 5 shot groups are right at 1MOA, so it gets familiarization firing before a hunt and I leave the load and rifle alone otherwise.

I certainly chase accuracy for fun with some of my collection, but for hunting good bullets doing 1 1/2 inches at 100 yards is more than adequate to me.

If I took up long range hunting, maybe I’d change my opinion, but as is, if I’m shooting over 4-500 yards at unwounded game, I’m not hunting, I’m shooting/killing.

I could not agree more. But I don't hate them when they're pretty, either.

Before a trip to Botswana a few years ago I bought some Norma, Kynoch, Nosler and Hornady factory ammo in .450 Rigby for my AHR custom CZ 550 Magnum, which I planned to and did take and use on Cape buffalo.

I had mounted a Swarovski 1.25-4x24mm scope on the rifle and needed to check zero, test for accuracy and velocity and just plain burn up some of the ammo in practice.

I decided I might use the best factory load (all of the ammo was loaded with premium bullets) for the actual hunting or instead use the best brass and hunt with some handloads made up using my favorite 500 grain Barnes TSX bullets.

I bore-sighted the rifle, then loaded the magazine with one round of each make of ammo and put one of a different make up the spout.

Then I stapled up an NRA 100 yard target at 25 yards to be sure I was on the paper.

Imagine my astonishment when all four bullets went into one hole in the black about two inches low and one to the right.

The rifle isn't bad looking besides.



I ended up using my handloads.

Dr. Butler,

You are correct. If we are talking about African DG rifles a 2 inch group is adequate. The rifle that I shot the most game with over the years was a 338 WM that consistently shot 1.5 MOA with about anything you fed it. I also like rifles that shoot bugholes but for most hunting you don't need it. Top velocity and a good bullet trumps bughole group everytime.

Mark

I would imagine an African PH like Andrew, has seen a lot of beautiful, high dollar safari rifles in his time. And he’s right, a gorgeous inaccurate rifle of walnut and engraving has no value in the hunting fields. But a gorgeous accurate rifle is a different story!

Crbutler has a valid point as well, that “There is accuracy, and then there is obsession over insignificant increments”, especially if one is hunting dangerous game with huge vital zone target areas such as Buffalo, shot up close. Should not be a problem with a scoped rifle. After shooting with open sights on safari, I finally put a Leupold fixed 2.5x scope on my 404 Jeffery. I like it.

1/2” groups at 100 yds. however, can come in quite handy for small game (Dik Dik, Grysbok, Duiker, etc), but some of these animals are shot at quite close distances, and some may be shot at much farther distances in wide open country like Namibia or South Africa, etc., so it all depends on the size/distance of the game you are hunting.

Speaking for only myself, I always take two rifle on safari (I have taken three before, but no more), for two reasons: 1) one for large DG and one for smaller PG and 2) should one rifle go out of commission. It is necessary therefore, to my thinking, that the smaller caliber can cover for the large bore if it should go down. I very much like my 404 Jeffery and 9.3 for this situation, and believe I shall use it for the rest of my African hunting, should large DG be on the list. If hunting only PG, like my upcoming safari in Namibia this year, that changes the battery; probably my 338-06 & 25-06.

Good hunting to you all in 2025!

"Accurate rifles" is a bit of a misnomer.

A 2 inch rifle is good enough for hunting.

Years ago, a friend gave me a 416 Weatherby Magnum.

I tried different loads in it, and could never get to shoot better than roughly 2 inches.

Took it to Zimbabwe and shot everything with it.

Zebra, sable, elephant, buffalo and lion.

Not a single miss.

Today's rifles are infinitely more accurate, out of the box, in the majority, than those of old days.

"Accuracy" is a relevant term.

When hunting large, dangerous game which is typically taken at 100 yards or less, then a 3 moa rifle is plenty "accurate". Even with a rifle which does only 5 moa, if it centers its group consistently, then a shot at 100 yards will land within 2.5" of the aiming point -- plenty good for something like a buffalo.

But if you are hunting, say, pronghorns on the open prairie where shot expectations may be as much as 400 yards, then 1 moa is borderline.

For colony varmints like prairie dogs a rifle needs to shoot consistently well under 1 moa, and closer to .5 moa is really what one would look for in a PD rifle.

To say that a rifle is "accurate" when shooting with iron sights really means that the rifle fits the shooter well and the shooter is confident with it since irons obscure several MOA and exact aiming is something of guess work.

I agree that only accurate rifles are interesting, I disagree that accuracy is relative, and I don't agree that 2" is good enough for a dangerous game rifle.

But I do agree that I'd much rather have an accurate rifle than a pretty rifle. Both would be good.

But my go-to .416 Rem. is ugly as hell. But it will put five shots on one hole at 100 yards so I love it.

Accuracy in its technical sense can certainly be overrated.
However, what an accurate rifle does is give the shooter confidence, and that simply equates to better shooting.
Whenever I lend one of my rifles to a visiting hunter I start with the words "Boy, I love this rifle. It always hits just where I aim!"
This is for non-dangerous game.

Nothing keeps you on your toes like a REALLY accurate rifle.

You fire a shot.

You fire another shot.

There is only ONE HOLE!!

Now you start thinking.

Where will the next one go?

You load another round and take careful aim and shoot.

STILL ONLY ONE HOLE!!

Now it really gets complicated!!

Can I put another shot into that hole.

You repeat this 5 times.

Still only one hole!!

Wait!

This is not the end yet.

You get the target.

You try to measure it.

You get a magnifying glass.

Try again.

And again.

And again!

The hole seems to get even smaller!

Rifle is a 6 PPC heavy bench rest.

Closest you get measure is a hole 0.263”

From a .243 bullet!

THAT is accuracy!

One of my most accurate rifles is a Sears J.C. Higgens Mauser 30-06, which I bought used. The stock has been replaced, broken through the wrist, repaired (you can see the dowels), and an ebony forend added. I thought I was buying the rifle just for the action, and intended to have it rebarreled. But is shoots so well that I just left it alone, and have killed plenty game with it, all one shot apiece. 3-shot groups at 100 yds run between 1/3 and 3/4 of an inch.

It is better to put 3 shots in three different places making three holes then three shots in the same hole on an animal!

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I love the old 1951 Brnos in 7x57 and older Mausers by J.P. Sauer and sons..The 404 Jefferys and my worn out 30-06 pre 64 Mod 70 Winchester, metal looks like stainless steel and the stock like drift wood and still shoots 1/2" 3 shot groups every time..

Only highly precise rifles are interesting.

A rifle capable of high precision gives the shooter confidence and the desire to see if they are good enough to get all the inherent precision out of their rifle.
Most of us are not as good as our rifles, no matter how bad the rifle is.

On my Northern Alberta moose hunt a couple of years ago I didn't check the zero on my rifle before we first went out to look for a bull. On the wy back to camp we found an abandoned hunting camp where they had left an aluminum frying pan. I told my guide that I'd like to take a shot at that pan to check my rifle's zero.

So I proped up the pan in the trail in front of the old camp and backed off across a draw to a lasered 169 yards. I laid down, rested my .300 Weatherby on my day pack and sent a 180 gr Barnes TTSX bullet at the pan. There was not any reaction at the pan, and my guide said I should have seen the expression on my face when I thought that I had completely missed the pan. So I fired another shot, and again no reaction at the pan.

When we drove up to the pan my look of disbelief changed to a big smile when we saw 2 bullet holes almost touching in the pan.

Saeed,

My .416 won't do anything like that!. A one hole 5 shot group is an inch to an inch and a half, but still one hole.

My friend Dwight Scott, a great bench rest shooter and gunsmith.

He has built many of the winning rifles for others.

Poor man never stopped being amazed at what new wildcats I asked him to build!

He always would answer "WHAT?"

Or "WHY?"

Or his most famous saying "OH JEEZ!"

He has built me many rifles, one of which was a 416 Rigby Improved.

Got the rifle and installed a scope on it.

Sighted it and then thought of developing a good load for it for my next safari.

Loaded a recipe for about 2400 fps.

Trophy Bonded Bear Claws 400 grains.

Fired 3 shots.

Looked through the spotting scope.

One ragged hole??!!

Took the same cases, reprimed them and loaded the same charge.

Loaded with Barnes Super Solids 400 grains.

Fired them at the same target.

Still one hole.

Got the target, and it was about 0.7 for all 6 shots.

I stopped right there.

Loaded some ammo and went hunting.

Shot two lions, two elephants and many buffalo!

The easiest rifle to load for!

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Saeed,

My .416 won't do anything like that!. A one hole 5 shot group is an inch to an inch and a half, but still one hole.

Check your PM!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
My friend Dwight Scott, a great bench rest shooter and gunsmith.

He has built many of the winning rifles for others.

Poor man never stopped being amazed at what new wildcats I asked him to build!

He always would answer "WHAT?"

Or "WHY?"

Or his most famous saying "OH JEEZ!"

He has built me many rifles, one of which was a 416 Rigby Improved.

Got the rifle and installed a scope on it.

Sighted it and then thought of developing a good load for it for my next safari.

Loaded a recipe for about 2400 fps.

Trophy Bonded Bear Claws 400 grains.

Fired 3 shots.

Looked through the spotting scope.

One ragged hole??!!

Took the same cases, reprimed them and loaded the same charge.

Loaded with Barnes Super Solids 400 grains.

Fired them at the same target.

Still one hole.

Got the target, and it was about 0.7 for all 6 shots.

I stopped right there.

Loaded some ammo and went hunting.

Shot two lions, two elephants and many buffalo!

The easiest rifle to load for!

And yet how many wound dangerous game with dire consequences for the PH. Accuracy comes with practice on the sticks and offhand.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
My friend Dwight Scott, a great bench rest shooter and gunsmith.

He has built many of the winning rifles for others.

Poor man never stopped being amazed at what new wildcats I asked him to build!

He always would answer "WHAT?"

Or "WHY?"

Or his most famous saying "OH JEEZ!"

He has built me many rifles, one of which was a 416 Rigby Improved.

Got the rifle and installed a scope on it.

Sighted it and then thought of developing a good load for it for my next safari.

Loaded a recipe for about 2400 fps.

Trophy Bonded Bear Claws 400 grains.

Fired 3 shots.

Looked through the spotting scope.

One ragged hole??!!

Took the same cases, reprimed them and loaded the same charge.

Loaded with Barnes Super Solids 400 grains.

Fired them at the same target.

Still one hole.

Got the target, and it was about 0.7 for all 6 shots.

I stopped right there.

Loaded some ammo and went hunting.

Shot two lions, two elephants and many buffalo!

The easiest rifle to load for!

And yet how many wound dangerous game with dire consequences for the PH. Accuracy comes with practice on the sticks and offhand.

I have real horror story of some clients.

They would wound an animal, turn to the PH and say “ok, go get it!”

Biggest argument I've had with a PH was over a shot on a leopard I screwed up. There was no way I wasn't going. I went.