What do you consider ethical methods of hunting?
In particular, why is calling unethical?
Seems as ethical or more ethical than other methods of hunting.

So who woke up one morning and decided that calling was unethical? The funniest thing about these forums is reading all these posts that explain "why my way of hunting is better than your way of hunting".

So, I guess using decoys and yelper for turkeys and rattl'n up a buck is unethical? Duck calls?
What makes an ethical hunt?

Now would it be considered unethical to go to a place where you knew there had been game sighted at some period, in hopes of shooting one? Probably! What if the land owner fed the animals in hopes of producing a better animal? What if he planted special crops? Provided desirable habitats for the animals so they would flourish on his property?

Would it be unethical to eat meat from animals that were raised just so they could be killed and fetch a price for the land owner? Hummmmmmm. . . .
Verrrryyyyy interesting. . . .DEAD HORSE! Bring on the next thread to be flogged!

Rusty
We band of brothers!

BTW, I was not baiting for an argument.

IMHO, Calling seems like a great way of hunting animals that you might not ever see.

................<<<<ETHICS?????>>>>>>>>>

Your's or mine?

I don't have a problem with ethics, it's morals that I have trouble with.

Hi,
I believe ethics can change from hunt to hunt. If you hunt on an overpopulated hunting preserve in Texas, perhaps you shouldn't hunt a waterhole with a 30-378...if you are hunting leopards that will NEVER come to a bait during shooting light, maybe it is ok to use an artificial light. Old time hunters even used light aircraft to locate big tuskers....and these were guys like Deny Finch-Hatton who are considered to be bastions of our "sport". The bottom line is, to each his own (within limits) and lets unite against the rest of the world who thinks we are -- one and all, barbaric and bloodthirsty macho-men.

I think the discussion of ethics and its correlation to game calling was started in error.

Someone mentioned that it was illegal in some areas to use ELECTRONIC calling.

Is there any place that prohibits the mouth calling of a game animal?

Rick.

I've called preditors, and black bear, ducks, in the USA, and I have no objection to calling Leopard, or Lion in Africa. The only thing is I'd think one would to find a very tall tree first! Preditors have a bad habit of comeing in from the very dirrection you never expect. With a 500 lb Male Lion, that could be a serious handicap, if he got too close before you saw him!

Ethics, one fellow screams "high fence! scum of the earth hunt high fences", then he goes and shoots a black bear out of a blind at 20 yards while the bear eats jelly beans or whatever...the next guy sez he won't shoot at night, then he calls in elk with a bugle and on and on, what I do is ok but what you do is criminal is the picture I get....

I'm hardened to such garbled claims by internet hunters and readers of Outdoor Life and decided many years ago that if its legal, then let it be, not my call, its an individuals right to do what he wishes and individual rights are more important than all this stuff....

I have also noticed over the years that he who protests the loudest is usually the guilty culprit anyway....

I have allways wondered, in the back of my mind, that the guy who drives around and shoots a deer out of his pickup, using the rear view mirror and the steering wheel like a bench rest and carefully shoots his deer in the neck, heart or brain for a clean kill and gets his meat to the house and packaged all clean and proper isn't the real sportsman compared to the purest who walks 10 miles a day, is out of breath, shoots his deer in the guts, lungs and both legs, then packs it out, by then its dirty and whatever, but he ruined his deer fair and square!!! Now which one is the hunter or sport? you tell me?? I won't argue with you either way, but I sure as hell know which one is the smartest!

I still have to wonder about the guy who starts all his hunting stories with - "I rolled the window down real quiet like--"

Should we not differentiate between hunting for "meat" and hunting for "sport/trophies"?

If the former then Ray's 1st hunter is ethical.

If the latter then Ray's 2nd hunter would be me -with, hopefully better shooting and butchering

One thing is for sure, where the ultimate objective is to shoot a good trophy and have a great experience, then the vehicles and spotlights should be kept far, far away.....
Happy hunting!

In my opinion...

For me, If you're just in it for the meat, most anything goes. What does it matter what method you used to kill an animal when you just want to fill the pot?

But I like to hunt for sport. (I live far too close to a grocery store to need the meat). So for me it is about the stalk, and then the kill. The hunting/stalking part being most important.

And that means no calls, recordings, baits, blinds, tree-stands, spotlights, and not within a goodly distance from any vehicles. I'm very much a fan of "fair-chase".

A modern rifle is already an overwhelming advantage in most cases; more advantage than that and things start to get really unfair.

And besides all that calling/baiting/blind/stand stuff reminds me too much of fishing, except with a rifle and not a rod and reel. Needless to say I don't like to fish.

[ 11-20-2003, 12:17: Message edited by: Wes Pryor ]

For the sake of arguement should we deferinciate between the two that being meat hunting and trophy hunting...A kill is a kill.

For instance is it sporting to shoot from the vehicle for meat any more so than shooting from a blind for a trophy Lion...

Does justification come into play simply because thats the way WE/YOU do it..Lets be honest with ourselves, oh I know we hate the truth with a passion in the hunting society, but its time to wake up and smell the roses...Be honest with ourselves.

If one is to be a purest then do so, do none of these things, don't shoot from a vehicle or near one; don't shoot over bait or decoys, don't trap; don't shoot at night for cats: don't use dogs, perhaps we should ban scopes and any rifle with over 2000 FPS velocity, where does it stop? Wherever it stops, then we can stand in judgment of all who violate said ethics...

But, is this what you/we want, be carefull what you wish for, it may come to be!!

Have a dose of reality on me, perhaps some of the bleeding hearts need it... Never said you'd like it!

Given the above it might be a better place to hunt, might/might not...I don't have the answers just some food for thought, and arguement of sorts...

I make my own decisions on what I do and I have no trouble living with them, I've shot from the truck, I've walked the elephant track for 20 hours at a time day after day, guess I've done about all there is to do both good and bad, I'm a hunter, no less a preditor than any of the big cats, I take the easy ones and the hard ones, I don't waste my time sitting in judgment of others.

If I had to pick a pet peeve it would be hunters that hunt but don't bother to learn to shoot from field positions and wound game, not from the methods they use to hunt, I believe the truck shooter with a clean kill is the better man, than the hunter who can't shoot but hunts fairly, my scope is on the game and how it dies, I want it clean abouve all else, all else is secondary....but again I don't worry about things that I have no control over....

I don't have the answers, just some random thoughts gathered over the years.

I think it's different.

The concept of hunting for sport never existed until man was secure that his food supply was secure.

Once food for survival was no longer an issue, hunting for sport arrived. A totally different reason for killing game.

Shooting a doe for the pot is not that much different from butchering a cow for the pot.

Once we begin pursuing game for a higher cause, sporting and ethics become relevant. Once the goal becomes outsmarting the game animal on his terms, then the methods need to form more of a challenge.

Rick.

Minus those few who hunt for survival, we hunt for one reason, self gratifacation. The accent is on SELF. I hunt in a fashion that is challenging and gratifying to ME. What challenges me may not challenge you. Alternatively, what challenges me may be beyond your capabilities. So long as you remain within the law( the letter and spirit ), hunt the way that you want to. No one has the right to impose their biases on you. Usually those biases exist because they match the individual's skills and situation. I have always been amused by Jack Nicklaus' outrage over square grooves, which allowed lesser golfers to spin the ball as well as he could, as opposed to his embracing metal woods which allowed him to hit the ball as far as younger golfers.
As long as its legal, hunt the way that you want -- just hunt.

I think the "ethics" are pretty clear. You are shooting an animal that you want to kill for one reason or another. If its legal you're doing just fine. Ray brings up a good point. If hunting over bait or calling is so bad why are there so many people out there with RUM or Wby cartridges or $1000 scopes? Because they believe it gives them a better chance to take the trophy or bring back the meat they were trying for, just like calling or baiting. You should do whatever maximizes your personal enjoyment of the hunt. If you're out there for the "purist" experience of hiking around the wilderness for 10 days tracking to get that one memorable shot, good for you that's great. If you only have one day available for hunting and want to put venison on the table for the winter while hunting over a bait pile and calling, that's great too. Bottom line is you end up with one dead animal and one happy hunter. Which I think is the goal of modern hunting.

I just do not see this as an ethical issue. Maybe the talk of ethics should be saved for issues like human cloning, abortion, assisted suicide, unjust use of force (against PEOPLE) to name a few.

My .02
Carl

Looks like my ethics have been checked and I came out ok. I will continue to hunt continue to hunt humans over bait, after calling them in with electronic calls, and of course we all know the hard part is rolling down the without spooking them.

Just kidding, I don�t hunt over bait.

In all honesty, thanks for the ethics check. I passed with flying colors.

Simplest explanation of ethics I ever heard was:

"Ethics are what you do when no one is looking."

Don't know who to credit it to, but I like it.

Other than that, if it's legal, then ethical discussions are moot. The only one you really have to look in the face is the person in the mirror.

I get a kick out of folks so vain as to think there skills killed a trophy animal...Truth is we stumble into such situation and convience ourselves that we are skilled hunters!

Comes to mind a quote by my dad...I shot a huge deer at a very long range and was bragging of my skill with a rifle..to wit he replied:

"Son, the deer zigged when he shoulda zagged and ran into your bullet"

Another when I stalked a nice buck and shot it at 10 yards....
"Son,the damn deer was asleep!"

He never cut me a lot of slack, but he always said he quit hunting deer because they made such of fool out of him so many times, truer words were never spoken...When we as humans win in the natural world today, its a fluke....

Hmm...

Those two trackers I had in Zim sure "stumbled" on to some nice game during those 10 days...

It took two days of hard walking to finally get a bullet in that zebra. A 14-hour fluke.



Rick.