Anyone tried this new ctg (developed for Contender handgun, now a factory round) in a rifle? Based on 444 Marlin necked to 375. Supposedly, buffalo and elephant have been taken with it using 300 gr Hornady solids out of a handgun. I am having a couple of sets of Valmet double rifle bbls made up in this caliber and will be taking one with me in 3 weeks on a plains game hunt. Plan to use Nosler Accubond 260gr bullets. Should get close to 2500 fps. Interested in load data. Anyone?

Hey Russ,
This is my first post, thought I would start with something I know a little about. JD Jones (SSK Industries)developed this round quite a few years ago as a wildcat. It has been used to take a lot of African game in the Thompson Center single shot pistol, the Contender. Just this year Thompson Center is making it into a factory round. There are quite a few posts about this cartridge in the single shot pistol forum here in AR. I've seen some that even had specific loads. Also you can get load info and dies from JD at SSK Industries.

Take Care, Rick

Quote:

---

"... and the 375 uses 220s at 2250, 270s at 2100 and 300 FMJS at 2000 which gives plenty of penetration to take elephant (in 1984 19 elephant were taken with the 375)."

---

SSK Industries website


Rick.

The first development of this round (I think) is written up in Wolfe's book, Big Bore Rifles and Cartridges. There's an article on 375 express, which was a wildcat 375 on a 444 case in an old Mauser. I think there is some conservative load data in there for the rifle. Hope this helps. Bob

Actually spoke with JD. That was an eye-opener. He refused to sell me a set of dies, wouldn't help me with a reamer, and told me to go invent my own ctg, all because he didn't like my idea of building a double on a Valmet 412 375 Win. Said the barrels were bent and they couldn't be rechambered. Well Ken Owen and Chris Altland, both experienced double rifle smiths, have rechambered Valmets in the past without any such problem. I spoke to some other folks in the industry and they say my experience with JD was by no means unique. One said JD thinks he has a patent on air and water. Anyway, most of the published load data has been for the Contender. First, that's a pistol. Second, the Contender is not a very strong action (that's why they came out with the G2 and the Encore). I am using a Valmet 412 double, originally in 375 Winchester, and it's supposed to be a very strong action. Best I can tell, this ctg is a about 10% below the 375 Scovill (based on 30-06 case) in terms of capacity. A load that fills the 30-06 case to the base of the neck, almost fills the 375/444 up to the mouth. So I am going to use Scovill loads, reduced by 10% as my guideline. Slower powder and more of it, than the Contender loads. Obviously working up. Plan to use the Nosler Bonded 260 gr BT polymer-tipped bullet. Anyone used those yet on big plains game? I figure this round should be better than the old 375x 21/2", and almost as good as the factory 375 H&H loads. Best of all, I have a set of 12 ga bbls fitted to that receiver, so I can travel nice and compact, ready for pretty much anything except perhaps the largest and nastiest stuff (which I won't be hunting this trip anyway).

Russ,
Before I got on this forum I had a buddy who contacted J.D. Jones to rebarrel a No. 1, when asked about .470 Capstick as an option Mr. Jones told him that round was a joke and he didn't want to work with it.
Jason

Russ,



Prior to JDJ, Ken Waters created almost exactly the same cartridge in order to save a Lee-Enfield sporter(? not sure of model, I'll look it up) which he rebored, rechambered, etc. I don't remember that he got results much if any better that JDJ publishes for "his" cartridge.



You're correct about the Contender, so far as it goes. The G2 was really created for several reasons, the importance of each of which is different depending on your source (probably reflecting competing corporate agendas). Brand ID (matching the Encore for looks), reducing frame stretching (as opposed to "strength"), correcting complaints about Contender operation (such as having to open the action to recock) already addressed in the Encore, and so forth. Marketing probably drove the brand development as it has with other products that have come and gone. TC does not say that the G2 is stronger, in fact they have denied that it is stronger. In any case, the Contender is sensitive to breach thrust. Thus it will handle 50,000 CUP cartridges with small case heads such as the .223 Rem but as case head size increases, cartridge pressure must decrease. Case head pressure/breach thrust must be less than about 4500 PSI. Mike Bellm thinks that the Contender can handle the .375 Winchester solely because of the brass as pressures would otherwise drive breach thrust beyond system capable limits. I think that many if not most tip action singles and doubles have these concerns.



I think I've seen Valmets chambered for the .30-06 (isn't that right?) so I expect that this will NOT be an issue. However, I doubt that this will translate into more than 100-150 fps difference although a happy coincidence of the barrel and chambering might do better.



I've been really interested in the old .375 NE 2�" and I don't think that there will be a great difference. Also, although I've not used it myself, I've read some users reports that the Nosler BT will open a little faster than other bullets might be best suited for deer.



It sounds as if you have a very nice set up and I'd like to hear what the ACTUAL results are, as opposed to our expectations. I personally believe that such a cartridge is a really good one and I'd like to have the .375 JDJ in a rifle.

Russ, I owned one of the original barrels from JDJ in the early 80's. I kept it until about 95 or 96. During that time my contender took a ton of game in the lower 48, Alaska and many in a couple different southern African countries. I tried countless bullets and loads in it and found it to be extremely accurate and absolutley deadly with good shot placement.

The reason I actually bought the gun was to hunt areas in the wilderness here in Washington state. The pack in is quite long, and the Seattle bunny huggers almost thick as the trees! With that gun in my backpack hiking into areas typically inhabitated only by the Earth first groups and the REI shoppers none were any the wiser. Had I been packing a rifle I would have had to endure the associated BS from each passing jackass.

I also packed into these areas with 2 goats who carry all the gear for us. Because of the goats the "bunny huggers" were always interested in asking questions about using goats as pack stock. During these brief visits because I had no rifle visible, it was not uncommon to hear one of them say " be careful with those goats at the lake we saw a bear last night and he was still hanging around when we decided to leave. My invisable JDJ in the pack and my pack goats just opened the door to a whole new group of scouts for me. One lady said the deer in the meadow were so gental they could get really close for nice photo's. I asked if there were any with "antlers" because they can be agressive! She replied that the big one with the big "horns" was not with the main group and he would not come down to the water with them. He stayed further up the hill side. With the Rifle I promise you these comments would never have been made!

Anyway the 375JDJ with the 260 nosler partition was the combination of choice. The 270 hornady bullets act like solids and did not expand much if at all. They usually whistled right through. The last big animal I took with the JDJ was a 7'10" black bear in SE Alaska. It was a laser measured 175 yards and the bullets exited the mass of the shoulders broadside. I shot twice as he was close to a bad place and I did not want him regaining his feet to vanish which is common with bears in SE Alaska. That was the biggest bear by body size I ever killed and the 375JDJ from 175 yards still exited the bear! My loads were at 2000 fps with the 14" barrel. Today you can do much better with the ballistic tips and other bonded bullets from Nosler at the lower velocity of the JDJ.

I love it!

Hunting bear with PETA members as Game Scouts!



Rick.

JJ,

We have not only a common interest in calibers, but also a common friend in Pete Millan. Thanks for your entertaining stories and your practical input.