So what is the consensus on "collectors" at AR? Perhaps I'm off-base here, but my perception is that there is a negative connotation associated with hunters, especially in Africa, who try and accumulate as many different species as they can.

My question is - If you hunt Africa as a collector, are you doing so for all the wrong reasons?

There are a lot of reasons to hunt Africa. I am not into collecting anything other than memories and pictures. I do not look down on the guy that wants to collect the spiral horned animals or the cats or the Tiny 10. To each his own.

I suggest that you would enjoy the hunt more if you did not focus on "collecting". Peter Flack is a collector of the various species but he also collects the experiences of each hunt.

pinotguy,

I don't mind saying that I'm a collector. I'd like to get one of everything. I want every safari to be different from the last and pursuing new species in new places is what turns my crank. I would not be happy shooting the same animals over and over again. In African hunting there is such a variety of game and safaris available why would anyone not take advantage of those experiences if they could?

If anyone wants to hunt elephant, buffalo or anyother animal to the exclusion of everything else that is fine but it is not my cup of tea.

Mark

+1

If you hunt you collect. To deny that is to deny that you have your animals mounted. At my present age and certain limitations I now hunt without seeking trophies, only to be in the field as much as I can. Do I still "collect." You bet. If an animal comes my way that I have never hunted before, it would be a pleasure to add it to my list of species gathered. And a European mount would probably be made to preserve the memory.

To set a "goal" regarding completing grand slams and such, has never been my quest. I respect those who do, those who consider this a challenge and do their best to achieve it, done in an ethical and fair chase manner.

When hunters "collect" for the sole purpose of some SCI award or something similar, that is what usually garners the negative connotations. The hunts should be about the memories, the expereinces, etc., and not just checking a box on some form.
Now I see nothing wrong with taking as many different specimens as possible. I enjoy all sorts of different hunts, and like to try new hunts. But I couldn't give a rats ass whether or not if I have enough check marks in the boxes for some "collection award". Those things don't do anything for me.
To each his own...

Good Hunting,
Bill

I collect memories.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
pinotguy,

I don't mind saying that I'm a collector. I'd like to get one of everything. I want every safari to be different from the last and pursuing new species in new places is what turns my crank. I would not be happy shooting the same animals over and over again. In African hunting there is such a variety of game and safaris available why would anyone not take advantage of those experiences if they could?

If anyone wants to hunt elephant, buffalo or anyother animal to the exclusion of everything else that is fine but it is not my cup of tea.

Mark

+1

Everyone is a collector in some way, memories, trophies, experiences, it's all good for the hunting industry.........

I enjoy pursuing different animals to gain different experiences. There is such a diverse amount of fauna in Africa that taking advantage of her bounty is part of the experience that is "Africa".
I believe that SCI is one of the most important organizations a hunter can belong to. They do more to preserve our hunting rights than any other hunting organization. However, I have never entered my "trophies" into the book. I don't have any problem with those that do, I just choose not to as hunting is a very personal thing for me. Just my 2 cents.

Great question.

I do not collect. I hunt and would be okay with hunting nothing but one species for the rest of my life.

If I couldn't hunt Africa, I'd be disappointed that there were not going to be any buff or lion or leopard or elephant on license, but I'd be okay with it.

I could not care less about inches or records or "slams" etc. - I just want an old bull, tom, boar, ram, buck, rooster, stag or whatever the male is called of whatever I'm hunting when I'm hunting it.

For me, variety takes second place to the hunt itself. Hell, I'd be okay - not ecstatic, but okay - hunting squirrels in my backyard if that's what it came down to.

But if that's what it came down to, you can bet your ass I'd be hunting squirrels with my .458!

Interesting isn't it that Mellon ended up basically burning out after many years of INTENSIVE hunting...and yet, he still hunts squirrels and only squirrels.

quote:

But if that's what it came down to, you can bet your ass I'd be hunting squirrels with my .458!

Bloody hard on the trees, MR.

I think you sort of have to collect to really find out what your favorite animal is. In other words if you have not taken them all in different styles of hunting and different places, you can't even say this animal is my favorite to hunt. As the other guys said it is all about memories and experiences. Hunt the world and enjoy the ride.

quote:

my perception is that there is a negative connotation associated with hunters, especially in Africa, who try and accumulate as many different species as they can.

I think A lot of this connotation comes from the common misconception that something "exotic" is endangered. People view mounted animals that they have never seen or heard of and they assume they are rare.

In addition, this is another way for the anti crowd to get hunters attacking each other. Whether you have a room full of every species from Africa because you like to collect them, or just because you like the experience- there is no difference. One justification has no more merit than the other IMO. You end up with one hunter telling another hunter that he has "done wrong" when they have done the exact same thing. They only think about it and value it differently.

With unlimited funds I would certainly want to "collect" as many species (and experiences) as possible in one lifetime.

quote:

Originally posted by Blair338/378:

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
pinotguy,

I don't mind saying that I'm a collector. I'd like to get one of everything. I want every safari to be different from the last and pursuing new species in new places is what turns my crank. I would not be happy shooting the same animals over and over again. In African hunting there is such a variety of game and safaris available why would anyone not take advantage of those experiences if they could?

If anyone wants to hunt elephant, buffalo or anyother animal to the exclusion of everything else that is fine but it is not my cup of tea.

Mark

+1

Everyone is a collector in some way, memories, trophies, experiences, it's all good for the hunting industry.........

+2

Even just taking pictures and putting them in an album or on the wall is a form of collecting.

i dunno i guess i'm a collector - what I shoot usually gets mounted and then not only do I enjoy it, but so so others. Most people have not been to africa and don't know an ele from a did dik showing them the mount increases not only their knowledge but enjoyment as well. Have you ever seen the look on a little kids face when he walks up to a lifesized lion, or bear or whatever? that is fun

I just wanted to add that I see nothing wrong with collecting, and didn't want anyone to think that by posting what I did above that I was implying otherwise.

To my way of thinking, as hunters, our only obligation is to hunt legally and ethically. Each man's reasons for hunting are his own business.

yukon delta, I knew that about Mellon and have wondered whether that has happened to others. I honestly can't see it happening to me, but then again I have not spent years of my life hunting the world full time as Mellon did.

I guess I am a collector as I have only shot multiple of a spieces for bait. I only want one of each Africian game animial. I have SCI plaques and probably some day do the paper work for the awards. I see nothing wrong with the awards program as it raises funds for SCI. I find it interesting when some one says his Kudu was 55" but they would not enter in in the boork or would do only or the benifit of the PH. Why was it ever measured in the first place?

i too admit to collecting species to a point,I don't enter in the book I just enjoy the different animals. On Mellon, I personally get just as excited with a covey of quail busting in front of me as shooting a buffalo if I ever lose that feeling I would not hunt at all. I don't think thats posssible though!

I don't really consider myself a "collector" but I do like to travel to new game fields and hunt new species. I don't have a checklist of species I must get, and I don't seek only high scoring trophies, but I do seek new experience and adventure.

I don't have a impressive trophy room, nor is my name in any record books. But, my friends consider me to be more widely travelled than most, and I am just shallow enough to take satisfaction in that.

Die Ou Jagter,
It is quite possible to want to know how your trophies stack up to others of the species, and yet have no interest in entering them in any book. Most of the hunters I know feel this way. It's not so much that I have anything against books, as no interest in seeing my name in one. How many people would list the animals if their name wasn't included? Not that I have anything against that, it's just not my cup of tea.I know that I'm alone.

quote:

Originally posted by Wooly ESS:
I don't have a impressive trophy room, nor is my name in any record books. But, my friends consider me to be more widely travelled than most, and I am just shallow enough to take satisfaction in that.

That made me smile.

Mellon is a very interesting (and probably complex) person. No one has ever hunted as intensively and for as long as he did. He was a Weatherby award winner in his early 30's and he didn't even know the award existed until a few years before that. There are a number of things that only he and Prince Abdorreza have ever officially shot as sportsmen.

I don't even understand the logistics of what he did. He did not attack it in a systematic fashion. He just went from Africa to China to Alaska to Tibet to South America...and on and on he went...getting back from one to immediately leave for the next. How do you even book hunts that way? He must have had someone doing all of the research and booking for him. He literally did not have time to do that part of it himself.

So, somewhere along the way he burns out. I'm sure his family pressured him to contribute something to the business. So, then he focuses on other things to the exclusion of everything else and all that is left is squirrel hunting. Kind of bizarre.

quote:

I don't mind saying that I'm a collector. I'd like to get one of everything. I want every safari to be different from the last and pursuing new species in new places is what turns my crank. I would not be happy shooting the same animals over and over again. In African hunting there is such a variety of game and safaris available why would anyone not take advantage of those experiences if they could?

If anyone wants to hunt elephant, buffalo or anyother animal to the exclusion of everything else that is fine but it is not my cup of tea.

Mark

Very well said Mark, I couldn't improve on that... +3!

the pursuit of "nut monkeys" where I reside is a sport of kings. I harvest 40-45 a year. they are a "fine tune" to the hunting season. A noble past time, so to speak. But, to each there own. I'll let you know how lion/leopard/croc/buff/hippo stack up to the redgs and grays come this Oct. But that's a tall order to fill.


Dutch

I've never heard the term "nut monkey" before and I was born in St. Charles. Makes sense though.

/

I guess I've always been a collector. As a kid I had a rock collection, coin collection, butterfly collection, arrowhead collection, etc. In college I started buying record albums, and after Viet Nam, I had a stereo collection and taped alot of albums (that I haven't listened to since). I have a couple of bookcases full of a "collection" of hunting, fishing, and shooting books.

Growing up in Colorado, living 10 years in Northwest Colorado, and the past 30+ years in Montana, I got interested in big game hunting. After several years of deer hunting, then deer and elk hunting, I found that hunting additional species extended my hunting seasons and took me to new and different hunting areas.

I enjoy seeing and looking at game animals, so as my hunting expanded with different animals like Pronghorn antelope, Mountain Goat, Moose, and Bighorn sheep, I had them mounted. Eventually I shot some deer and Elk with large antlers, and I had them mounted. The number of mounts outgrew my living room so I built a trophy room addition onto my house. My desire for new and different species evently led me to Alaska, then Canada, and then I found Africa.

Africa has so many different species of game animals, but because of the cost of hunting there, I decided to try to hunt diferent species on each trip rather than paying alot of money to hunt the same animals that I've hunted before. Now my house is looking like a mini museum of natural history, and my taxidermist has job security for quite a few more years.

I've been a member of SCI almost since it started and I hi-light the animals that I have shot in my copy of their Annual Awards Issue, but I have never entered any of my animals in their record book nor the Boone and Crockett record book, although many qualify. Instead, I use the books to learn of new animals.

My trophy collection is for my enjoyment and brings back the memories of my hunts. Besides, I would rather look at the artwork of my taxidermist on my walls rather than what some artist thinks they look like in ink or paint.

I've written books for/about some of the world's best-known collectors (not Mellon, though). Until SCI's record books and awards program came along they used the Rowland Ward record book to learn what was available and where they could find it, and then they went after it.

C.J. McElroy at the peak of his hunting career had a secretary who did nothing but schedule and book his hunts. He'd be gone three weeks, back a week, and take off again for three weeks to a month. He did this twelve months a year for several years as he chased the Weatherby Award.

That was nothing, though. Canadian Arnold Alward made THIRTEEN major hunts in as many countries on four continents in one year.

Prince Abdorreza shot at least one tiger in every province in India on his first trip there -- more than dozen tigers in a month! He continued to hunt everything imaginable until he died of cancer while in his middle 70s. The number of top ten trophies from a huge variety of game he took will never be equalled.

Hubert Thummler and a guy whose book I ghostwrote set out to collect every subspecies of mountain game -- sheep, goats, chamois, ibex, high-altitude deer, etc. -- and both did so. Along the way they also took everything that walks in Africa, Europe, South America and North America.

The collecting bug that bites these guys has little to do with the SCI programs. Other Weatherby Award winners were doing the same thing before McElroy founded SCI.

Bill Quimby

I would like to see the negative conotations you refer to that gave you such an idea as collectors are frounded upon, are you sure you not passing on your personal views and questioning them...I have been on AR for 10 years and have never read such a thing.

In todays world we hunting is seldom for subsistence, although all of us do eat the game we shoot to one degree or another. I put a deer and an elk in the freezer about every year and a bison once in awhile, I keep all my quail, chuckers and Pheasants for the table. We do not bring meat back from most foriegn countries, but its utilized..The heads and skins come home and they are collected, why would anyone waste them..I also keep all the horns and sometimes take pictures of what I shoot.

It's been a few years since I read Mellon but if I remember correctly he stated the only two animals in Africa worth hunting more than once were bongo and sitatunga.Can't say I agree with that but to each his own.

Sam

Mr. Atkinson,

I'm afraid I can't provide "hard" data as far as connotations go. My perception, and as I prefaced in my original post - it could be inaccurate, was formed from comments, conversations, and opinions of other people. I think a lot of the disdain I perceived stemmed from collectors being associated with the practice of "Put & Take". I want nothing to do with that, but like most posters on this thread, I would prefer to try and hunt as many African species as possible, provided I can do so in a proper and ethical manner.

And of course, I realize that no meat is wasted, especially in Africa.

All this introspective crap! Do what you want, to the limits of your budget.

Ray,

I think Pinot has a point. There is a bit of "outer circle" that makes it into the discourse here. And nothing wrong with that.

On the one hand I admit that I am a bit of a collector. I can't help feeling that a good trophy mount or even the use of hides for leather is honoring the animal and also lets me reflect on the hunt and enjoy it again and again.

On the other hand I, like meany others, am repulsed by the "slams" and "inner circle" etc. awards that seem so important to some in SCI. Of all the wonderful things that hunting is, it is not a competition.

Best regards;
Brett

I believe Will is onto something. Seems like some of this introspection may be caused by a limited budget and even more by a fear of things unknown. For many of us with the addiction to africa We must change some of the ways We live to continue to feed the beast. As for Me , I'm collecting memories and the trophies or curios are a part of this. One of the better things about being 65 is I don't care what the outer circle thinks. There is enuf competition already for the better safaris and I'm afraid DG hunting for most has a short shelf life.