Is it my imagination, or do the majority or African P.H.s seem much more polished and professional compared to guides here in N.A. Don't get me wrong, I've had some fine guides here in the States, and Canada, but I've had my share or losers as well.

Mike, I can say that I personnally have not run into bad guides yet. Maybe I am lucky! But I've had a great guided bear hunt and caribou hunt in different Canadian provinces and two different turkey guides this past preing. All were excellent, well equiped and knew what they were doing. There can be rotten apples in any bucket though so there is bound to be a bad guide whether here in NA or Africa.

Ann-don't get me wrong, most of my hunts here in North America have been with wonderful guides, but I've also had my share of guides drinking too much and not getting up in the morning. Once in Wyoming my guide shot several times over the heads, but in the direction of, 2 hunters who happened to be in the same drainage we were hunting(this was on Nat'l Forest Land). He just didn't want them around where he wanted to hunt. Another time also in Wyoming(different guide)my friends and I were dropped off on the top of a drainage with instructions to stillhunt toward a distant abandoned farm house were he would meet us at noon for lunch(the lunches were in the back of his Suburban). We got to the house around 11:45, and the guide still had not shown up by 2:30. I hiked out to the nearest town which was 6 miles away, saw the guides Suburban parked outside a bar, went inside, and there he was drunk. When I approached him, he said he forgot about the time.I've yet to have anything close to the above incidents happen to me in Africa, and I hope I never do.

[ 08-12-2002, 06:29: Message edited by: mikeh375 ]

Interesting post! I have been both now in my life. There is infact a pretty big difference between the two. Lets take a western state for example, which is where I worked in the USA. If You decide you want to be a guide in most of the lower 48 you are one! No more difficult then that actually! Now the trick is finding clients who are willing to pay you. There are countless ranches that will put you up and have a "ranch hand" take you out hunting. He is a guide, a wrangler, a cook, mechanic, and whatever the ranch owner wants him to be. His qualifications are that the ranch owner trusts him. This person can be the best guide you will ever have or the most obnoxious guy you have ever met. This can happen with a PH as well but far less likely because the PH has made a concious decision to do this for his job. Many of the western guides are doing it as filler between other ranch chores.

There are plenty of guys in the PNW who will guide you for deer and elk. They figure they were good hunters, and know the area so they become a guide. Maybe in another state a guy has a few hounds and decides he is a guide and will take some hunters to pay his expenses. In the lower 48 for the most part if you wake up one morning and decide your a guide, then you are one!

In Alaska you must pass a written exam and have the recomendation of an existing licensed outfitter. The exam consists mostly of geography for the area you're applying for but it also has quite a bit of testing on game laws, animal identification, and some first aid. It's very limited but a great improvement over the other 49 states. Once a License is given to an outfitter he can then hire a man to work for him as a guide who does not require a test. He is the employee of the outfitter, but can work as a full guide taking out hunters under the license of the outfitter/ owner. An interesting note on this for those that don't know. The AK F&W has nothing to do with the testing or licensing of the guides in Alaska. That is handled completly by the states Professional trades agency. The same people who test you for being a plumbing contractor, school bus driver, electrical contractor, carpenter, etc. test you to be a guide. They are also the folks who wrote the rules for that job, Not the AK dept of fish and game!

Alaska has changed this rule back and forth over the last 20 years. It has not been a consistant requirement for all that time. I worked there out of the town of Haines, and then further south seasonally for many years.
Now about Africa:
I can only speak of South Africa on this but it's several levels higher in minimum requirements to get a nature conservation certification to become a PH. The testing is quite intense and there is at last information I have a 50% failure rate in the Northern Province and Natal may be higher yet. When I was tested there were about a dozen guys there and I think all but two had completed college (or university) not a single one was confident of the final results of the testing and many were talking about when they might return for re-test! This is just for plains game and not to become an outfitter. This is just the PH exam, the outfitter must take another exam. If the PH wants to work on DG then another exam is needed and an apprenticeship must be taken.

Over all the average African PH must by law know about everything from how to butcher game and set a dining room table to identification of every common species of bird, reptile, plant, tree, and animal, the game laws were a huge and very complicated part of the exams. Plus you also had to know by heart all the minimums of every game species of RW and SCI and know how to score them. Trophy judging was very heavy and with little margin for error in the test. That exam was done in the field at 100 meters with about 50-75 sets of real horns which you had 10-15 seconds to look at to identify, sex, species, and size. Extensive first aid, reloading, archery, photography, the typical foods of every game species, their habitat, breeding seasons Oh yeah much of the testing and lecture is not even in English! To be honest with you I could go on and on with this list for a while here but I think you get the picture. By comparision the North American Guide is no comparison! I'm not saying there are no good guides, don't misunderstand me. What I'm saying is there is no good testing or minimum qualifications required for that job title.

As I said I have done both and to be honest the SA work is about the proudest accomplishment of my life by comparison the American "guide" title has been a nearly worthless accomplishment because there is no entity to certify your capabilities.

Well said, Jim!

My first safari, just completed, was a fulfillment of my expectations in the professionalism department, after enduring several North American hunts with individuals of varying competance. There was the 'good ol boy' who ranches and is a good hunter and reasonably good guide in New Mexico. Then the college student, also in NM, who set a fine camp and brought his buddy to assist him on a bowhunt to an area he was very familiar with. All the way to the Alaskan licensed guide who hunted us for brown bear from a boat docked in the Haines harbor and his beat-up old SUV driving the roads around Haines; and this was my second hunt with him ... don't ask unless you have an hour or so .

In contrast, the two PHs on my hunt were really great; they knew their stuff and performed their duties quietly and competently. Even though one of them was only 23 years old, he wasn't full of himself but considerate, fun, and knew his stuff well.

There's no comparison.

Nothing to add to JJHack's informative post except it describes my experiences perfectly.
Have never had a PH or guide who was lazy or had poor behavior, just inexperience.

His comments about the western guides are right on as some of mine have been part time. In Alaska, one of my guides only hunted for 4 weeks, or just one season, barely knew the area.

In Africa, my PH's were serious hunters, knew game,area,stalking,safety,etc.; everything one needs to hunt DG or plains game. One had 5 years in the field, hunting DG 5-6 months a year; but had skills and training more than adequate for the job. His business is hunting.

Likewise in Australia, where I am not sure about required training for a license, my last PH was about as knowledgeable and skilled as one gets. Knew not only the area, and game-habits very well, but also the hazards in the rivers, swamps, getting lost, etc. as well. His senses were really acute, probably from 25 years in the bush.

Maybe it's time to press for guiding or PH standards and testing in north america, as well or will it remain, "Let the client beware".

pm

The best and worst guides I've had in North America were both in Canada. One was a farmer(the best) and the other was an RCMP officer/guide/drunk. The PH's in Africa are definitely well schooled in the game, but they are also the best hosts I've ever seen.

There is a guide school in montana I believe. Its a month and half long course for about 1500 or so...

I am an outfitter and guide based in Montana. I have a few guides working under my direct supervision.We do have testing here in Montana. Having said that, I have also been fortunate enough to hunt in Africa twice. IMHO there is no comparison. In every catagory the "average" PH will put skid marks over thier NA counterparts.We would like to think there just may be one or two exceptions to this! Bob Butler.

most African PH's run a better camp than the US counterpart....Most African guides are more skilled at hunting and tracking..

For one thing Africa policies their PH's much better than America, Canada or anywhere else. You mess up and your gone...

The African school for PHs is 100 times more difficult...

All in all I would say Africa is much, much, better, particularly Zimbabwe, because they have more controls over the hunting industry and their guides are year around in the hunting business.

The guides and Outfitters board in the states and in Canada are almost a joke, and handcuffed by civil rights and the threat of legal ramifications.

thats an overall picture from years in this hunting business and it does not mean we do not have some real fine guides on this side of the pond, we do....but we have a lot of sorry excuses for guides that have an office in the local bar and guide a couple of weeks a year...

I agree with the posts, that the Africian PHs are better, and they provide a better camp. The better camp comes from the past when most hunters going to Africia could afford and required the very best in accomidations. Ray made a statement I find interesting (a true statement I don't disagree with) the PH industry is more closely controlled than in the states, but aren't we in the US desirous of less controls. I think it is necessary to do your "homework" more diligently in the States. Although another way to look at is in Africa they are Professionals in the true sense vs outfitters and guides here. I have had guides that were nothing more than drivers. Gee when I reflect on the prior rantings I guess that is another reason I love to hunt Africa, eh.

I would think that if the guides were more professional in the US, would there be more international hunters coming here to hunt?

Or would people from the US hunt more here through guides if they didnt have to worry so much about getting robbed on a hunt?

To hunt in Namibia, one can easily do a ten day hunt for under 5000 dollars for the daily rates and trophy fees for 8 animals. Cabelas even offers such a deal that 1x1 is 4700 dollars and includes some decent enough animals for a plains game hunter. A total hunt for everything is about 10,000 dollars.

To hunt one animal in the US in Alaska would be just the same amount of money or more, often times that wouldnt include air travel, taxidermy, ect. This is what I think draws more people to hunt in Africa these days. People who are looking to do a lot of hunting for what I feel reasoble prices, you get excellent PH's, a good diversity of wildlife, ect... Oh yeah, its Africa!

Anyways, there is simply a need to have qaulity PH's in Africa because if it was known as crappy PH's then many people would not hunt there.

Buell

Professional hunting is not about hunting.
It is all about Customer Service Excellence.

In my somewhat limited and archaic experience, In Africa if you want a top notch PH, book with a first rate outfitter as his or her livelyhood depends on your satisfaction. In N.A., book with a first rate outfitter and stay out of French speaking Canada. There are some ABSOUTELY FIRST CLASS outfitters who post on this board and have been kind enough to let us partake in their wisdom and always have a client list available for you to check references. If a hunt is booked with the likes of Ray or Wendel, all that is left for the hunter to do is be honest about their experience level, and ther limitation along with what their desires are, and leave the rest to the experts. And NO, I am not an employee of anyone on this board, just a hunter who has had the "experience", (thats what you call it when you survive your own stupidity) of not using a great outfitter and trying to do it all myself. richard.