I've become obsessed with the desire to hunt Elephant. Its become so bad that while sitting in my deer stand half the time I'm thinking of elephant hunting
Unfortunately with my hunting budget its going to be some time before I can even hope to realize this dream.

Heres my problem and my question for those of you who as Will says "have been among them".

The problem: I don't have a DGR, the biggest caliber rifle I have is a .338, which I just bought a few months ago. I haven't shot it much, maybe 20 rounds, but didn't find it uncomfortable to shoot. With my limited hunting budget plus all the American hunts(Moose, Caribou, Bison...)I want to take I don't see myself "needing" a DGR many times, if I'm lucky twice. I've also been giving Buffalo hunting some thought while sitting in my stand

The question: With the above in mind which would you recommend a 375H&H or a 416rem? To add to the dilemma, I was in the local gunshop this week and they had just traded for a Interarms Whitworth Express in 375. Its in pretty good shape, except where I drooled on it and reasonable priced, a lot less than I've seen them priced on the net. I'm trying hard not to let my desire to own a DGR, along my "want" to elphant hunt, influence me into buying a rifle I don't "need" at this time and may not be the right tool for the job. So should I hold out for a 416?

Your .338 will do just fine on moose and the other large North American game. Good choice. For all the animals you mentioned and under most shooting conditions probable IMHO a better choice would be a .375 H&H. This one would also be just fine for elephant 99% of the time and buffalo 99,5% of the time. Do not think that having enoug gun only for 99% of the possible elephant shots that you are going to be in dnger. Far from it! Armed with a real shoulder belting .505 Gibbs, or some other monster, that you haven't shot and hunted with enough to feel completely comfortable with the rifle and confident of your shooting ability with that particular rifle, a complete novice or first time elephant hunter would probably be adequately covered only 95%, or less, of the time! You PH will probably [I certainly will] feel better and more confident guiding a guy on a trophy elephant hunt with a .375 H&H that he has used to shoot many whitetail, moose, elk and other plains game with, than the same guy with a very adequate DGR, that he is very unfamiliar with and with which he has fired only a couple of test shots!

As its very easy for me to spend your money, so I am inclined to say: Buy a .375 H&H and sell your .338 to help offset the costs! Learn to shoot your .375 H&H well, smoothly and quickly from all conceivable possitions, and then do not only enjoy dreaming of an elephant and/or buffalo hunt, work on getting there!



May I quote Alex van der Post?

“African hunting is within the reach of any person who really wants it. Don’t just dream about it.



Make it become a burning desire within you. When this desire is really hot it will motivate you and when you’re fully motivated, you will find a way to make your lifetime dream come true.



Make it your goal. It is a worthwhile goal not only for you but for conservation as well”



Verewaaier.

Considering what you will be shelling out for an ele hunt, the cost of a new rifle, scope, and ammo is nil. If you are sweating the price for a new rifle, have you looked into the cost for an elephant hunt??? I believe you are in for some serious sticker shock.



I would suggest if you have a desire and pocketbook to hunt ele, consider a .416 Rigby on the low end of the power scale and a .450 Dakota or .460 Weatherby on the upper end. Lots of ele have fallen to the .375, but you want energy and a lot of it.



If done correctly, shooting an elephant or buff is like shooting a very, very large deer. Do it wrong and your otherwise uneventful, mundane day will quickly turn into sheer terror.

Well, I missed your basic requirement, that I have been amongst them, but I have considered a rifle for Africa and bought same. Here is my thinking.

I bought a .375, a CZ. I considered the .416 Rigby and almost bought it. I decided the .375 was much more practical and cheaper to operate while still being a viable caliber for African hunting, particularly with today's ammo/bullets.

That said, I am much more likely to hunt a big bear than an elephant. I think the rifle is admirably suited to that, but, if I did get a chance to go after an elephant, I could do it.

Zero Drift, yep, I've looked at the price of elphant hunting and your right about sticker shock but then you can say the same for lion hunting. Of the big 5 I think only buffalo and leopard could be consider affordable. Then again this a dream hunt, something I can only hope to do once.

As to the cost of a new rifle. A few years back I had a closet full of rifles. I had one for this kind of hunting, one for that kind of hunting and some of them were custom made for that hunt I always hope to take. Then one day I decide I wanted to go hunting more than I wanted a closet full of guns. I sold all but 2 of them, spent the money on hunting trips and haven't looked back. So sure you could buy a new rifle for each hunt you take, but I'd rather skip the new rifle and go on two hunts, when I can.

Hello 6.5X55
Just my thoughts on the question.

First, are You really serious about Elephant? If so (and if You can afford the large ammount of $$$ needed) I'd say to make some friends in the area (100 miles or so) where You live, who have some of the bigger guns. Then use the 5" paper party plate method of checking out the guns, and yourself.
So...........what's that? You ask...

Go get some 5" paper plates. The kind You get for the kids birthday partys. Place them at 25 yards. Take the barrowed rifle with the ammo you bought, and shoot the full magazine (and the one in the chamber) at the paper plate giving yourself 5 seconds per shot.
For Elephant, you will do well to get the caliber that you can do this with. Bigger is better ONLY if you can use it correctly. If You have trouble with the drill you need more practice, or a 375 H&H. (Almost every real rifleman can do it with a 375.) The fact of the matter is that a 375 H&H has great penetration with good 300gr. solids, but dose not have the "punch" of the bigger guns If you can shoot a 375 well, you'll be better off with it than you will with a "416 458 460 475 505 blah blah blah"... that You can't shoot as well. Remember, your the hunter, not the pro. The 375 also has to be (in my mind at least) the best "all around" gun in the world. If You go to Africa, you'll probably be shooting other things too.
but...back to the question you saked.... Shoot the most powerful thing you can SHOOT WELL! If You can handle the 450 Rigby or the 505 Gibbs, get one and use it. If not, use the 375!

So, to anyone else with African experience I'd ask...
Do You agree with Me or not?

I completly agree with Verewaaier, sell the 338 and buy a 375. I have shot animals from duiker to eland and even 3 whitetails this season. I have owned my 375 for 10 years and always reach for it first.

Mike

Assuming you're buying the rifle to hunt Dangerous Game in Africa then you need to have the biggest calibre/best ballistics that you can shoot comfortably and competently.

A .375 H&H is usually (depending on which African country you hunt in) the minimum, but not necessarily always the best calibre. A .375 is good, a 416 is better and a 458 is better still...... assuming you're comfortable with it.

Whatever you end up with you need to be completely familiar with it before your hunt. Shoot it often and from every possible position you can think of, but don't stop there. Try to get in the habit of handling it on a regular basis even if it's only when your sitting in front of the TV. The more familiar you are with your rifle the better you'll use it when you need to use it quickly.

Also consider a muzzle brake or even better a mercury or tungsten bead recoil arrestor in the stock if necessary.

When you've done all that, you need to start to decide which bullets you are going to use, cos the wrong bullet choice is as bad as the wrong calibre choice.

Damn, but you're going to have fun doing all this!

Get yourself a CZ 550 Magnum in the new American style stock in .375 H&H. After you get it take it to a good gunsmith and have it reamed out to .375 Weatherby Magnum. Now you would have the BEST without breaking your wallet. Lawdog

The 375 H&H is the minimum for elephant. If you can shoot a 416 upwards, it is preferable. For all around African hunting the 375 or 416 are optimal.

Antonio

Mark65x55,

I'm off on a Botswana elephant hunt this year. These Botswana elephants are some of the largest bodied elephants in Africa. When I quizzed my very experienced PH about preferred calibers he said with no hesitation to bring a 375H&H. Buy your Mark X and you'll be happy using it for everything.

When you want to talk about a elephant hunt let me know. We have some hunts that may be quite a bit less expensive than you think.

Good Hunting,

Mark

I have shot 8 elephants with a 375. This year I will shoot a few more with the same 375. I would recommend a 375.

I agree with Mark and Eric ......... buy the .375 and practice, practice, practice .........

Mark65,

To be honest with you..You need nothing bigger and the 375 will be a great gun for N.America..It has the capabilities of reaching way out and for any up close and personal stuff it is a crusher...
As for Africa it will do anything you ask it to do...Stick with the 375 and you will always be happy with your decision and premium bullets for big stuff....

Mike
Wyoming, Pa.

Shakari,

A "tungsten bead recoil arrester"? Know about the others you mentioned, but this one is new to me. Please explain, does it work in a similar manner to the mercury ones?
Thanks.
Verewaaier.

Ive only shot one ele and it was with a 375. Didnt need backing up an shot through the ele and broke the offside shoulder. This is the rifle i use regularly in the states and practice and knowledge of anatomy is critical. Penetration is very good with a 375 and thats all you need if its in the right spot. Your ph will carry a big gun if its needed.

Verewaaier, Yes it works in the same way, but (IMO) slightly better. Blaser make one for their rifles which is where I first came across them....... but I'm sure that they are also made by other companies.

In past years heard some stories about Whitworth .375s not being tied down in the stock solidly enough. You might want to glass bed and/or put in recoil bolts, I don't know if they are made with them.

Thanks for the replys. I guess I'll go back to the gunshop today and at least drool on it some more.

I have seen a lot of old Whitworths around and none of them had split out the stocks, they are simply a Mauser 98 for all practical purposes. they are the best deal out there today for a used big bore..of course glass bedding never hurts....I have never seen one that didn't shoot well, they have such good barrels..

If I had to recommend an elephant rifle it certainly would be a 416 Remington or larger caliber, not a 375 H&H... I love the 375 H&H and wouldn't be without one, but I feel its just a bit light for elephant unless you limit your hunting to brain shots.....

For elephants one should shoot as big a rifle caliber as he can handle the recoil on...they are big animals and can live awhile when body shot...

I'm not saying the 375 is incapable of killing elephants, I am saying there are a slug of better cartridges around for the job...I like to use the "right tool" for whatever job I am doing....to me its the 404 handloaded or the 416 Rem...

Mark,

There is elephant hunting, and there is elephant hunting. Potting an elephant at 75 or 100 yards with a scoped .375, and relying on your PH to fix screwups, is not elephant hunting in my estimation.

I would never go elephant hunting with a .375. The 416's are a minimum.

Mark,

Will & Ray have have just given you excellent advice.

Data point: The long thin solids of traditional construction used in a .375 are known to rivet or bend more often than larger diameter solids.

Which is why, if you do choose to use a .375 on ele, you should use monolithics. And you don't have to pot jumbo with a scope-sighted version. You can get up close and personal and heart shoot or shoulder break with one. Not that I'd want to, y'know. Bein' a bit chicken, a Class III is more my style but that's a very specialized weapon. For everything else, a .375.

I shot my elephant with a 300gr .375 woodleigh solid at 23 meters and the bullet went through the skull and is still going for all I know. Brain shots are the only way to go, the results are spectacular.

500grains,
If you are speaking about the Kynoch solids they were known to fail regardless of bore size.

Jason

When Old Sarge gets back on line, he might be persuaded to send you his articles on big bores for dangerous game. He has broken down the list of cartridges from 375 H&H to 700 Nitro to different types of uses for different circumstances.

In this particular instance, Class III is not a Title II weapon. It is a level of stopping power for DGR's. Class I being 375 and the like. Class III is in the upper range of power. For all of you guys who have missed Old Sarge's article, you might PM Sarge or Nickudu.