I just got my DVD and think it's excellent, especially as I've killed one each bull in the same two general areas featured. But there were three things I noticed and am curious about:

1. The PH, Buzz Charleton, wears low-cut slip-on shoes of the type called crocs. No socks. No gaiters. What's wrong with that? Why does everyone seem to think you need Courtenay or Russell boots.

2. Safety: Some of the clients use the African carry (rifle over the shoulder, muzzles forward) with their double rifles. Many times you see them pointed at the backs of those walking in front of them, the PH and the trackers. I think this is unsafe and, if I were the PH, would not allow it. The game scout with his AK-47 does this too.

3. Shiny doubles: The Krieghoffs in the DVD have what I think is referred to as a "coined" finish, where the side plates are bright and silver colored. Why make a hunting rifle with such a bright reflective surface?

quote:

Originally posted by Indy:
1. The PH, Buzz Charleton, wears low-cut slip-on shoes of the type called crocs. No socks. No gaiters. What's wrong with that? Why does everyone seem to think you need Courtenay or Russell boots.

The poor bugger is not getting much in the way of "tips." BTW, do you know the cost of those damn boots?

I noticed the shoes. Never seen that before. I personally prefer the sandle type shoe but to each his own.

I also noted the safety issues but also wondered if it appeared that they were pointing at someone's back due to camera angle.

As for No. 1, so what? I've had trackers who went barefoot. Not for me, but I sit behind a desk. They track over rough ground for half the year. Different soles for different souls.

As for No. 2, not good. Just not good.

As for No. 3, it is not bright or reflective. It is, in fact, less reflective than a bright blue. Not an issue, as far as I'm concerned. For most African game, if the wind is right, all else is insignificant.

I started hunting in Tevas in Zim and was never happier. With a Krieghoff and muzzles forward.

This reminds me of the do-gooders trying to direct how others should behave. Get a life.

I'm quite happy to hunt in sandals or even bare feet. BUT tracking Ele or Buff up to 35klms takes the use of shoes for me.
Sako type shiny blue finish is indeed quite reflective from a distance. That and coin finish actions could draw attention of game. How much of a problem it is would be hard to say.
We once bumped into another PH and his two clients as we drove past them on there way back to the Toyota. Whilst in conversation, one of the hunters (a Doctor) was happily in full conversation with his rifle on his shoulder pointing directly at the PH, I did ask him if he could please point it elsewhere to which he apologised. It seems he simply didn't think about it. It would not surprise me if it was loaded.

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
I'm quite happy to hunt in sandals or even bare feet.

What about thorns?
I think the risk of snake bites is low, but it will be tough if you step on a puffadder.

Dennis

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

This reminds me of the do-gooders trying to direct how others should behave. Get a life.

That sounds funny coming from you as you've stooped low enough to judge others hunts to be a dg or non dg hunt based on whether or not their rifle had a sling installed or not.

Hope your wallet sales are booming!

The choice in footwear is an interesting variety. Living where I do I simply can't go bare foot so my skin just couldn't be any softer. Other than the annual trip out west of here to the beach in the spring my feet haven't been outside the house naked in many years. I don't any kind of day in and day out footwear other than boots so I have to have something similar on while hunting. The ph I hunted with indicated to me one morning to take off my boots in order to stalk quieter on a bushbuk we were after and I simply shook my head in refusal. We or I blew that stalk and didn't end up getting one that trip!

As to shiney stuff, one of the trackers wore bright red pants several days! I thought that no end of funny and lost considerable respect for camo after that.

I'm glad to see you're learning about slings.

Personally, I don't think Indy was criticizing the shoes. It was an observation. I noticed it as well. My thought was the I did not believe my feet would not handle that. If Buzz's feet can, great.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
I started hunting in Tevas in Zim and was never happier. With a Krieghoff and muzzles forward.

This reminds me of the do-gooders trying to direct how others should behave. Get a life.

So now you are saying that pointing out un-safe gun handling is butting into others business?



Mighty narrow-minded seems to me

SSR

During a safari, at one time or another, someone will have a loaded rifle pointing in their direction.
No likes it.
No one likes to do it.
But, as long as the gun does not go off, no damage is done.

quote:

Originally posted by Indy:
I just got my DVD and think it's excellent, especially as I've killed one each bull in the same two general areas featured. But there were three things I noticed and am curious about:

1. The PH, Buzz Charleton, wears low-cut slip-on shoes of the type called crocs. No socks. No gaiters. What's wrong with that? Why does everyone seem to think you need Courtenay or Russell boots.

2. Safety: Some of the clients use the African carry (rifle over the shoulder, muzzles forward) with their double rifles. Many times you see them pointed at the backs of those walking in front of them, the PH and the trackers. I think this is unsafe and, if I were the PH, would not allow it. The game scout with his AK-47 does this too.

3. Shiny doubles: The Krieghoffs in the DVD have what I think is referred to as a "coined" finish, where the side plates are bright and silver colored. Why make a hunting rifle with such a bright reflective surface?

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
As for No. 2, not good. Just not good.

For most African game, if the wind is right, all else is insignificant.

No1: I’ve seen many PHs wearing sandals, and some other silly “TO ME” looking shoes, but IMO, they are simply using what works best for them. I think everyone has a preference in shoes, no matter if they are PH, tracker, or client hunter, and is a personal thing. I personally like to wear sport hiking/walking shoes like New Balance brand for African hunting. If hunting in an area where it is likely we will be wading a lot of streams or swampy areas I like to bring a pair of the very light and water proof surfer’s shoes, because I cant stand walking miles in wet shoes. I put the surfers in the knap sack carried by the tracker so I can slip them on for a crossing, and carry my shoes across the stream or wet. The soles on the bottom of the surfers afford me a good grip on rocks or other objects under the water, and protect my feet from injury. Nothing can ruin a safari like injured feet.

No2 The safari carry is not unsafe if done properly! I sure some do it wrong, and in that case it is unsafe. However to say it is not to be practice at all, because some do it wrong holds no water IMO.

The so-called “PH CARRY” when done correctly is not unsafe at all. In a single file walk the muzzles of the rifle are naturally pointed at abut a 35 degree angle to the right on the right shoulder and a 35 degree angle to the left when on the left shoulder both out of line with the person in front of the rifle. When the carrier wants to change sides, the muzzles are lifted skyward and changed over the carrier’s head. And when a person in front of him/her changes direction following the trail or track the carrier raises the muzzles skyward till that person is back is line again. When the party spreads out looking for a track or moving right and/or left for any reason the rifle is brought down to port arms. Muzzles up! Any way a rifle is carried loaded will be unsafe if the handler doesn’t mind where his rifle is pointing. If the PH carry is a problem for you to do it safely, then like any carry method, I say don’t practice it. I’m constantly conscious of where my rifle is pointed, as well as where others are pointing their rifles. My father and grandfather drilled that in my head from a very young age.

On those films, I have to agree with Larryshores on the camera angle being responsible with a lot of misconceptions. Just like the instant re-play in football you would swear that a catch was good from the first angle, but on another one from a different angle, you can plainly see the ball hit the ground before the catcher had control. Since there are no instant re-plays on hunting film you are left with only one view. SO what you think you saw may simply not be what you thought!
Films are entertainment and are not intended to be evidence in a trial!

..............................................................................................................

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
During a safari, at one time or another, someone will have a loaded rifle pointing in their direction.
No likes it.
No one likes to do it.
But, as long as the gun does not go off, no damage is done.

Maybe so, but I'm pretty sure that no one hunting with me has EVER had my rifle, loaded or otherwise, pointed at them.

In two cases my rifle fired unexpectedly due to mechanical or shooter malfunction. In both cases it was pointed in a safe direction.

I've hunted with Buzz's outfit twice now. My PH, Rich Tabor wore open toe sandals everyday. Climbing the mountains in Makuti, tracking in the Jesse blocks in Dande with 125*F heat, even Leopard hunting last June when the long grass was wet and near freezing. Face it, these Zim PHs are some tough ole boys!! Add to that, it's easier for them to cross streams than it would be wearing boots and socks and having to switch footwear and dry off. I wish I could go with the sandals, but it takes time to get the feet conditioned for it.

African Carry with the muzzles forward. I like it! I just don't see the barrels being pointed at someone anymore often than if carrying the rifle in hand. Carrying in hand, the muzzles face straight forward, with the African Carry, they are off to the side about 45 degrees. When someone walks in front of your barrels or you turn toward another person, simply pull the muzzles in toward your chest and the rifle points straight down. Does the muzzle sweep others at times, yeah, it probably does. But does it happen more often than with other carry methods? I seriously doubt it. Constant attention to muzzle discipline is necessary with what ever method you use. Not so with a sling, you say? Man, I can't count the number of times I've looked down the barrel of a rifle that is slung over someone's shoulder. Example, following another hunter down a steep embankment on a trail you notice yourself looking down the barrel, or the other hunter bends over to pick something up and the muzzle gets pointed at you, etc. Bottom line IMO, one method of carry is not always more safe than the other. They all have their time and place and in each instance, muzzle awareness is the ultimate key to safety. I think the camera angles in the DVD's often distort things. Every DG PH I've hunted with in Africa has used the African Carry from time to time. I have never felt unsafe using it or being around others using it on my hunts. I've always had the feeling everyone was paying attention to their rifles.

I've hunted DG several times for numerous Elephant and Buffalo with a "Coin" finished 500NE Merkel. I've had that "Coin" finished double in a Leopard blind several times as well back in 08 when we were threatened by Ele's every day. My new 500NE VC which is currently being built will also have a "Coin" finish. Rich Tabor's 470 Kreigoff was "Coin" finished as well. The barrels were almost bare of bluing also, making the entire rifle appear to have a "Coin" finish. A rifle doesn't get to that condition without a lot of use and time spent in the field. If it was a problem, I doubt he would have kept it. This is simply a non issue and you'll find quite a few doubles with this type of finish. I've had trackers carry my Merkel while I had my Stainless 375H&H in hand and vice versa. I've never caught a reflection off of either rifle while it was in the hands of the tracker and both have a "lighter" finish than traditional bluing.

quote:

Originally posted by Indy:
I'm pretty sure that no one hunting with me has EVER had my rifle, loaded or otherwise, pointed at them.

Indy, I'm sure you are a very careful person in the field with your weapon handling practices. But I seriously doubt your statement can be true if you have ever hunted with another person in close proximity.

Just a couple of the limitless examples of how your muzzle can be pointed at another person, even using the utmost care:

1) Your rifle is slung over your shoulder as you stand next to a stump or rock. A hunting buddy climbs up on the stump for a better view and you turn a few degrees to glass another area. Muzzle sweeps or stabilizes on the buddy.

2) You are negotiating down a small embankment with the rifle slung over your shoulder so that both hands are free for the decent. While your partner follows, you slip and slide a few feet before regaining your footing. Meanwhile, your buddy behind you is busy dodging your muzzle.

3) You are in the lead with your rifle slung over the shoulder (with a sling of course). You pass an interesting track, stop, turn around, bend down and take a knee for a better view. All while your buddy is looking down the muzzle.

The list could go on. In all these cited instances, a little bit of muzzle awareness would prevent sweeping the other guy. But the same applies with the African Carry. For me, personally, I find that my consciousness is more actively focused on where the muzzles are when using the African Carry than when I have the rifle over my shoulder on a sling. The sling method is a less mentally active method of carry and therefore results in more lapses of muzzle discipline.

Strictly speaking only for myself!

quote:

Originally posted by Indy:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
During a safari, at one time or another, someone will have a loaded rifle pointing in their direction.
No likes it.
No one likes to do it.
But, as long as the gun does not go off, no damage is done.

Maybe so, but I'm pretty sure that no one hunting with me has EVER had my rifle, loaded or otherwise, pointed at them.

In two cases my rifle fired unexpectedly due to mechanical or shooter malfunction. In both cases it was pointed in a safe direction.

I have never had a rifle fire accidently while on a hunt.

Indy
Interesting obsevations and a good topic for discussion.
As I am one of those featured carrying a double in the first part of the video I feel well qualified to comment.
There is no one more gun safety concious than me and I can assure you that if it appears that my rifle points at any part of any other human being then it is entirely down to camera angle.
Gun handling was drummed into me at an early age and I now find that I cant even swing a toy gun across a person without lifting over or pointing down. Likewise, I can never unload or put a bolt rifle in a slip without first announcing loudly and showing the empty chamber to all those present. Thirty years of shooting driven grouse on a regular basis also helps, which is probably the most dangerous gun handling situation that anyone can ever experience.
Your general point is valid however and if I were a PH I would ensure that all my clients knew what was expected of them with regard to gun handling before starting a hunt. Familiarity with firearms also brings its own dangers and it always makes me cringe when I see a PH rest the butt of his loaded rifle on the floor and push the muzzle into his groin while he glasses. I'm sure that most of us will have seen this at some time.
When on a long tracking session I prefer to sling a double and to wear it pointing forward and upwards close to my head so that I have full control of the muzzle and stop it catching in the thick cover that we invariably find ourselves in. When we get the slightest hint of elephant of any kind the sling is quickly removed and the rifle shouldered. It becomes second nature to carry a shouldered rifle pointing slightly off to one side so as not to cross the body of the person in front.
In my case I also chose a Krieghoff double purely because of its double safe cocking action. Because I normally take both a bolt and a double rifle I want to ensure that I am safe from anyone who may be carrying my double behind me.
Game scouts are probaly the worst of my fears. I remember when we once set out to follow a wounded leopard in the dark and Buzz turned to the game scout following us and pointed at his AK saying "I'm more afriad of that than the leopard"
If you look closely at the section of the video where Alan Shearing shoots a charging cow you will notice a puff of dust to the right of its feet before Alan fires. When I asked Alan what it was he told me that it was a round fired over the shoulder by the fast retreating game scout. It apparently whistled past Alan's ear !!
On the subject of Buzz's crocs, he normally takes along two differnt pairs, his posh dancing set and his hunting pair. You can easily tell them apart by the repair tape and wire that holds the hunting pair together.
Anyone who has ever followed them for long days around Zimbabwe will know only too well that this form of unconventional footwear doesnt inconvenience him one little bit.

I like to hunt wearing Maasai sandals (made from recycled tires), in my undies and smear myself in wildebeest blood..