The topic of your PH backing you up seems to generate a lot of emotion here. I'm curious, for those who have had a Ph back them up, how did you feel about it?

In three hunts, my Ph has only fired his rifle twice. Once my brother took a 250 yd shot on a warthog, hit him head on just below the eyes and inextricably missed anything vital. The hog started running, David missed the next three shots and asked Glen, our Ph, to shoot before he got away.

The second time, my son shot a lechewe, his first shot on an animal of any kind, and it ran behind a mound. As he and the Ph were manuvering for a follow up, the tracker pointed to a really nice kudu 70 yds away. Kudu are common in the Okanvango Delta, but by no means a sure thing. My son shot the kudu, which dropped, than took a snap shot at the lechewe which flushed. Glen shot and broke the lechewe's pelvis putting him down. My son then finished them both off.

In each case, neither my brother, son nor I was upset that Glen had shot. David asked for the follow up. Glen's shot on the lechewe guarunteed that my son's first hunting experience didn't end with the loss of a wounded lechewe and got him a really nice kudu.

The only direction that I have ever given Glen is "you are the Professional, use your judgement". He has and I'm satisified.

TerryR

On my only hunt for DG so far, my PH fired a back up shot on a buff I hit in the lungs twice and above the spine on the third. The buff was not charging but was running in our general direction after my two shots. He brained him at about 7 steps. I was very pleased he chose to shoot.

After we gutted the buff, we saw that my two shots were killing shots and that the buff would have died very soon. The problem was that he was running in our general direction and the PH did not want to take a chance. I support that notion.

On a trip to RSA, a PH shot a wounded wildebeast that my son had hit in the brisket. The wildebeast was not going anywhere and I would have preferred he allow my son to shoot again. I told him not to shoot again unless life was in danger.

This past March I muffed a frontal shot on a bull elephant and the PH backed me with quick shot to the shoulder that got the lungs just as the bull was turning. Due to the heavy jesse I was not able to get a second shot in. I had told him that if I went for a brain shot and the elephant didn't go down to back me up. Sure glad he did as we might not have gotten that bull as the bullet went about 3 " high. Leave your ego home and accept help rather then let a fine animal get away wounded.

465H&H

Only ph I ever hunted with I asked not to shoot unless it was a necessity (PAC Elephant hunt in Zim). I think at that time I needed to know he wouldn't shoot unless... Now, if I were to go again today, I would tell him to just use his best judgement and be assured that if I did my part we could knock off early and go have a drink.



Brian

I shot a kudu and only single lunged him on the first shot, then hit him again but farther back on the second. He was on the opposite side of a little ravine, the tracker and I went down the hill and back up the other side of the hill thinking he was dead. The ph stayed on the opposite side of the hill to direct us since the brush was thick. The kudu was down but jumped back up, I didn't have a shot and yelled for the ph to fire. The first bullet hit him through the ear, the second nailed him. The bull was dead after my first shot but we would have had to chase him awhile. I am glad the Ph shot except the SOB hit him in the ear. Glad I have a good taxidermist.

The times I've been out hunting PG in a non DG area, my PHs didn't even carry a rifle. When I went for buffalo in Moz. my PH & I discussed potential problems & he told me if we were in heavy cover he was firing on top of my hsot. It didn't work out that way, I shot my bull in the open w/o his firing a shot but I had no problem w/ it. It's his & the trackers ass if you blow a shot, especially in thick stuff.

I think a lot of the feelings one way or the other on the subject have to do with when you became a hunter.

I was brought up hunting with men that expected you to make your shots count, not make a mess, and to clean it up yourself if you did. That is ingrained in me. I don't want my PH firing at PG or DG unless someones life is in danger. No ones life is in danger unless they are being charged. A wounded animal in a fenced property can certainly be found. A free-range situation takes on a different sense of urgency, but your PH is a tracker, or you have one or more dedicated trackers. Clean up your mess.

I don't lose wounded game. I don't shoot unless I'm sure. I take pride in that. I will forego the remainder of my hunt to follow-up a wounded animal until I kill him. I doubt most hunters could honestly say that. They go to Africa with a laundry list of trophies they want. They shoot and move on to the next one on the list. That approach probably needs back-up (probably pretty often).

TerryR's son losing a Lechewe would have been very regretable, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone, but I'm not sure that wouldn't have been one of the most valuable lessons his son would ever have learned hunting; and if he had followed it up himself and finished it, that would have been a tremendously satisfying result for him and everyone else.

I have no problem with any of the approaches expressed here so far. It is based simply on how you were raised.

Well put.

Maybe not exactly a follow up but I let the PH do the finishing work.

We were after plainsgame close to the limpopo and had to climb over a log, when the PH was on top of the log and I directly behind he turns around and say; "Black Mamba, shoot it", I look down just to see the tail and hand the rifle to the PH who takes the shot and shoots the head of, his rifle was in the veichle since we wer only checking a small area and there were no DG there.

quote:

Originally posted by Kensco:
...
I will forego the remainder of my hunt to follow-up a wounded animal until I kill him.

...

I have no problem with any of the approaches expressed here so far. It is based simply on how you were raised.

That all sounds very fine. I was raised that way, too - in Texas. I still hunt that way in Ohio.

Backup shots on plains game is one subject, PH responsibilities on Dangerous Game is another. Let's stick to DG on this discussion, as PH backup on PG should be entirely controlled by the hunter's wishes.

A wounded buffalo in the Selous is not a wounded deer in Indiana, and by law you are not allowed to hunt alone. In TZ you'll have the PH, the tracker and the game scout with you at a minimum. They are all exposed to danger when tracking a wounded buff. At least they signed up for it.

But what happens when your wounded buff is headed off the concession towards a photographic area? Your game scout will NOT allow you to go in there. Now you've endangered strangers unaware.

What happens if you have to leave the concession before you find your wounded buffalo? (Assume the next hunter has demanded exlusivity.) Now you've endangered another hunter. (Or adveresely affected his hunt if you stick around.)

Your PH is burdened by law with the responsibility for the safety of all concerned. Make your wishes plain to him, then give him your blessing to act as necessary concerning dangerous game.

Don_G

You are a wise man!

I am pleased to give my client the opportunity to hunt and kill his own animals, but I have an obligation to the laws of the land and the animal itself.

If a client is well prepared for a hunt (like most clients are) and knows his own limitations and that of his weapon (like most clients do) it is very seldomly nescessary for me to do any shooting.

To be honest; from my perspective I am more satisfied by a client having a great hunt than to kill animals for the client.

There is nothing more frustrating than finishing off animals for a client.

I'll duplicate what 465 H&H said - had the same thing happen. There is no room for ego when it comes to a wounded animal escaping

That all sounds very fine Don_G, but you haven't changed a thing for me, DG or PG.

Your comments are based on hunters wounding game. I can only shoot the gun I'm holding. I don't wound game, and I'm not responsible for the hunter that hunted the concession before and after me, and I'm not responsible for the PH's previous client.

What I respect about the PHs I've hunted with is that they can size-up a new client very quickly. Hunters that have grown up relying on their own abilities, not someone standing at their shoulder can do the same thing. It doesn't take much more than a fifteen minute conversation about the taking of game, or watch a man handle his rifle to know a tremendous amount about his skills, and his attitude.

More than half the hunters I've met in the field in Africa and in the airport departure lounges are animal hitters, not hunters. They seem perfectly content with hitting an animal, multiple shot kills, and finding the animal dead the next day. It's disgusting. I can understand why a PH would get very cynical, tend to lump all clients under the same heading, and stand ready to throw lead as soon as the "hunter" fires his weapon.

Your "what happens when/if" questions certainly apply to dangerous game "hitters". If the PH senses that he has one of them in tow he might as well flip the safety off now, or take the first shot and let the client run in and apply the insurance shot once the buffalo is down.

I've never had a PH put his gun to his shoulder, that's why it is hard for me to hunt with a new outfitter / agent. I have this fear that one day I'm going to plunk down my $15,000 and a cowboy PH is going to ruin the experience for me. When that happens I'll count holes, divide the trophy fee by that number, multiple by the number of holes that are mine, and that will be my part of the trophy fee. I've hunted with the same group over the last ten years. I've spent enough money with them that I think I can make that approach stick.

They always say the hunter should ask for references when hiring an outfitter. I think it should be perfectly valid for the outfitter to ask the hunter to provide references. That way we could match the Goobers with the Cowboys and the rest of us will be happy.

Ken,

I was able to say "I've never wounded anything" for many years, but I kept hunting and it eventually happened. I think that buff was the third animal I've wounded in my life. I hit that buff within a couple of inches of where I was aiming. The bullet deflected on the heavy bone at the point of the shoulder, and did not penetrate the chest cavity. (I never could find that bullet, and it just ocurred to me that it must have deflected down the marrow channel of the bone!) If it had tracked straight it would have been a high heart shot.

If you keep hunting long enough something will go wrong and you will eventually wound an animal. I hope it does not happen at a critical instant. I believe the term is HUBRIS.

My PH backed me up on this buff and I'm glad he did. Note the hole on the bridge of it's nose. It dropped at 7 paces.

Jetdrvr,

FYI. I like your tag line...especially since I represent the fellow who owns the copyright. I doubt he will put me on your trail unless you start making money by using it. It was first used to promote a motorcycle racing event in Tulsa, Oklahoma many years ago. The owner's name is Ed Winterhalder and he was a National Officier for he Banditos Motorcycle Club and has written a very interesting book on that way of life entitled "Out in Bad Standing".

I like all the help I can get if I muff a shot or if anyone thinks my target is going to get away. Better safe than trapsing all over hill and dale looking for some critter when a bit of timely help from a PH, guide, friend or family could have made a long tracking job a short recovery. I had a PH dump a poorly hit Eland for me and was glad for it, my dad and uncle have both pitched in to keep game from running off and I have helped my youngest daughter make certain an Axis buck knew he was dead. Guys who don't want help are usually the guys who think all they will ever need is one shot to kill their chosen animal. Most of the time it works, but Murphy is an opportunits and he typically strikes at the most expensive or embarrassing times.

Perry

DennisHP - I shot a buff just like yours with the help of a PH that put a bullet in his nose to slow him down. I was glad he did.

First, DennisHP - Beautiful Buff!
Second, At about 5PM, I pulled my shot on a kudu and hit him about 2 feet behind the shoulder. He took off like a rocket up the embankment of a dry river bed. At about 75 yds my second shot caught him inside the off hind leg not even slowing him. As he neared the top of the embankment the PH put a finishing shot through the bull - full stride - nearly 100 yds. Not only was I glad we didn't have to go after a wounded kudu at sunset, but I was mightily impressed by his shot and was glad to have witnessed it!
Dave

My Ph, Dean Kendall, and I had talked about backup shots the first day out. His thought was that too many PH's take too many backup shots as a matter of course and not necessarily because they're needed. He definately needed one on this fellow.

DennisHP - my Ph was Dean Kendall as well. The bullet hole in the snout on yours looks just like mine. That is a coincidence. Scroll down on my hunt story and you will see a buff with an extra nostril thanks to Dean.
http://www.accuratereloading.com/dogcat.html

dogcat, that IS remarkably similar; 7 paces as well. Nice report and a nice Bushbuck too! Dean was kidding when he said his shot could have been better as it was off center by an inch.

I was also impressed that Bongoni and Claudius never moved when the buff was headed in our direction. The game scout got a little jumpy and jumped behind everyone. Dean's shot and my third shot were fired at the same time. He was the better marksman, thank goodness...