I'm planning my first(?) trip to Africa in September and would like to take my Shiloh Sharps. I'll use pure black powder loads, but wonder about bullet choice. Weight, form, lead alloy, etc. I would welcome any insights or advice offered. I'm told by the PH that shots are very seldom over 150yds so trajectory shouldn't be a problem.

Pure lead in a paper patched bullet and a good flat nose is all you need. Doesn't matter if it's kudu or steenbuck. Works every time.

Brent

I think any of the Paul Jones flat hunter bullets would work well. As well as pure lead, I don't know why 30-1 or 40-1 wouldn't work well also. My Shiloh's seem to like the heavier bullets.

http://www.pauljonesmoulds.com/45_caliberpage2.htm

Gary,
I had a good friend carry his Shiloh Sharps in 45-70 (beautiful guns, by the way) to South Africa and he took a giraffe and a waterbuck with it. This was his eighth or ninth trip so he was doing it for fun and the challenge. It was a challenge too. The weight of the gun and his aperture sights made it very difficult to hunt in thick cover. If this is your first hunt and you want to shoot several animals, I would definitely take a scoped back-up rifle in a .30 caliber. That way you can have your cake and eat it too. By the way, be sure and load ALL of your cartridges going over. Loose black powder in your luggage is a no-no. Good hunting!

Folks:

Isn't there a prohibition of transporting black powder on the airlines... or once it's in a cartridge, is it o.k.? I'd hate for a dog to find it and have all my ammo consficated, or worse.

As to the difficulty with the sights, just get an extra disk and drill out a larger hole...

I'd say, "Go for it!", but would agree a scoped .30/06 or so as a backup if you find it too difficult would be a good idea.

Judge,
After considerable research, the authoritative answer out of Washington is that loaded cartridges are fine. Loose powder is not (with one exception). This for all American flights. I'm not sure what happens with oversea flights but the US is fine with bp in catridges. Art Fleener published an article on this in a magazine that is produced by Dixie Gun Works.

Brent

PS. Leave the scoped anythings at home and tough it out. A little challenge is good for ya.

PPS. Don't drill out the sights. Get a Hadley eye cup with adjustable apertures, or buy an additional eyecup with a larger aperture. If you drill them out, they will not work as well. Not all holes are created equal, and in this case, it matters.

There is absolutely no reason you can't take every plains game animal in Africa with a Sharps 45-90, if loaded properly! I don't think you will have a problem with transporting loaded black powder ammo to any country in Africa! Where you run into a problem with black powder is with a muzzle loader, where you powder is carried in bulk! That is not posible on a passenger aircraft! Addtionally the powder is not always available in Africa. Many folks in Zimbabwe have to crush up black powder blasting sticks so they can shoot thier black powder rifles.

A good flat point, alloy of 30-1 should do the trick, as long as you know the limitations of the round, and stick to range limits accordingly!

Have a good hunt, and post some pictures when you get back!

I don't even know if its a consideration but the best conventional game bullet in the .45-90 is the 350 gr. Hornady...It really works well compared to most...I have used it a good deal in the 45-70 and the 45-90 in past years...but a good hard cast bullet flat point bullet is hard to beat...

Could be wrong, but didn't T.Roosevelt use the 45-90 Sharps for everything (incl. dangerous game) in Africa? Haven't read his book in a while, but I do know he loved the 45-90.

It's actually considered a heresy to put a jacketed bullet or smokeless powder in a Shiloh.

Ray, most Sharps would fair poorly indeed with a 350 hornady. They don't like jackets of copper, esp. when shooting blackpowder and they have an 18" twist which is way too fast for such a short bullet. A 500 gr bullet will shoot better, kill better. Everytime in that rifle.

Save the 350 copper junk for lever rifles.

Brent

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
Where you run into a problem with black powder is with a muzzle loader, where you powder is carried in bulk!

Not necesarily. It seems to me the solution to this is to carry two rifles, one muzzleloader and one .416, .375 or whatever. Load some or all of the cartridges with black powder and mark the brass so you dont get them mixed up. Take a bullet puller with you and the problem is solved.

JMHO,

JohnTheGreek

quote:

Originally posted by notmenotnow:
Could be wrong, but didn't T.Roosevelt use the 45-90 Sharps for everything (incl. dangerous game) in Africa? Haven't read his book in a while, but I do know he loved the 45-90.

On his African trip, TR used the .405 Winchester in the Model 1895 Winchester rifle. (Along with a 1903 Springfield sporter in .30-06 [actually .30-03] and the 500/450 Nitro Express in a Holland double rifle.)

-Bob F.

Thanks to all for yur input. I've learned that BP cartridges are ok, so long as packed in accordance with the requirements for all other ammo. I think I will indeed use a 490-500gr bullet with a flat point over a card wad and a "Wonder Wad", and 85gr of FFG. Mike Venturino of Rifle Magazine has been to Africa with that load and recommends it too. He also pointed out the need to be sure the cartridges will just drop in. BP can foul up a chamber and barrel pretty quickly if it isn't kept soft or removed asap after firing.

The rifling profile of a Shiloh Sharps just will not support jacketed bullets and its pitch is best for long bullets, not short. Thanks again to all!
Gary

I own a Shilo Sharps in 45/70 an constantly load .405 gr Remington JSP / 50 gr IMR 3031 / Federal 215 LMR tyo shoot 1/2" groups at 1oo yds and <10" 5 shot groups @ 1000 yds from a bench!
Don't let anyone tell you a Shilo won't shoot jacketed bullets well....I know better!!!

smoke poler, I think you need a new handle. Smokeless in a Shiloh? Ick! (to put it politely).

Brent

Bret while it is obvious your tastes run to an extreme I will back Smoke Poler on this one.
I too own a few Shilos, as does SP and know him well ( he is a member of our long range shooting club). I do not know you but SP is one of the finest if not the FINEST longrange Shilo Sharps shooter in the USA with more perfect scores @ 1000yds than anyone I've ever met or shot with. If SP says he can shoot X/x/x out of a Shilo and hit a 6" target @ 1000 yds you can bet he has done it and not just once.
While he loads smokeless & copper in some of his guns, he also loads BP & lead in others.
I dare say you fingers typed faster than your brain processed on your comment to him.

balbustr,
I think you take my comments way too seriously. And my tastes are hardly extreme. Most shiloh owners shoot only bp and pb.

He has shot perfect scores at 1000 yds? I didn't think anyone had yet made perfect scores at 1000 yds in bp long range matches. Could be wrong, I am not up on the details of long range, but last I saw 97 and some X's were the highest scores I have heard.

So, lighten up and shoot a little lead and real powder.
Brent

Bret: I own 4 original ( circa 1800's) Sharps rifles which I shoot only BP from under lead. I also own 11 modern Shilo Sharps I've had built for me over the past years that I shoot both BP & smokeless, lead & jacketed from.
I've carried those guns one or the other in pursuit of game from AK to Zim. an will vouch for thecomment about heavy guns!
A perfect Sharps 1000 yd target is all 8 shots in a 6" bull. And yes it is done after years of learning to read wind currents. SP

Smokepoler, If you can put 8 shots in 6" at 1000 you will be the next world champion. No doubt about that. No one I know of that is currently in the world-champion class can do half as well.

In fact, I know of only two people that can claim to having shot sub MOA accuracy consistently with bp cartridges 40 caliber and above at any range. There is a record book for those that have, and there are only two names in it. If you can do it at 1000, you can add your name to it. Along with that World Champ title.

If you decide to sell one of those originals, let me know.

Brent

Smokepole,
The world record at 1000 yds for blackpowder cartridge rifles is 94-3x. The 10-ring is 20" and the x-ring is 10". So, if you can put 10 shots (that's the number of shots for record in a match) into 6" at 1000 yds, you are the world phenom. I'd pay $100 to see you do it too.

Brent

I will refrain, out of respect for Smokey until he replies, on posting here about him or his true idenity.
Knowing him from spending time with him at the bench as well as reading the many articles he has written about the subject of long range shooting I will say " world class shooter" is an understatment!
BTW Smokey are you coming in for the dinner on the 16th or just the shoot on the 17th? You have my cell # call from the airport I'll pick you up either way.

My point in taking the Sharps to RSA for plains game is simply to "blood" the rifle in a way similar at least to how it used to be done. With BP and lead bullets. Call me a romantic. When plinking rocks out west, I've even used duplex loads. They are a lot cleaner and not hard to put together. I've piddled at the BP target games, but prefer the Highpower Rifle events with my AR if paper is the target. Just preference and what is most available in Michigan. For Africa, I'm also taking my Sako 75 in .300WM but ya know, there's just sumpthin about the Sharps! Why not use it with the technology it was designed around?
Gary
BTW: I've never tried 405 jacketed bullets in it, but the 350's might as well be round balls for all the accuracy I've gotten out of them with any propellent. No, its heavy lead and BP for me in this gun. Inconvenience, stink and all. Quality not quantity in all romance!

GaryL...

Do take it and give us a full report. I've been playing with the idea of taking my Pedersoli 45-70 to take a couple head of game, while leaving the rest to my Whelen.

Gary,
If you are serious about doing it the old fashioned way, then go with a paper patched bulet and pure bp. The basics of loading these are on my website, and in many books. There are a few tricks for some varieties of hunting cartridges that are not published anywhere at the moment, but the basics are all available at Making, Loading, and Shooting Paper Patched Bullets

Brent, what a great site! Nice work. I've fiddled a little with the PP bullet but not with much success I confess. I'll be spending some time on the site and get back to you. Thanks!
Gary

Smokepoler,
Thats mighty good shooting, beats what I can do with a modern long range rifle...In fact I have never seen or heard of such good shooting...your a wonder...

quote:

Originally posted by Brent:
Smokepole,
The world record at 1000 yds for blackpowder cartridge rifles is 94-3x. The 10-ring is 20" and the x-ring is 10". So, if you can put 10 shots (that's the number of shots for record in a match) into 6" at 1000 yds, you are the world phenom. I'd pay $100 to see you do it too.

Brent

Methinks Ballbuster and Smokepoler would be found to have the same IP address.

H. C.