Rather than hijack the other thread, I thought I would start this one to look at the issue from a slightly different perspective...

It would seem that for a person hunting leopard under the watchful eye of a PH, a rifle in the .270win to 300Win Mag range that the hunter shoots well (his deer gun State side??) is often recommended. I can follow various arguments put forward for this culminating with the idea that if things do go wrong, it really should be down to the PH to put things right, regardless of what the client feels about this...

But what rifle for hunting leopard for the single handed hunter in Africa? Say the PH or a farm manager dealing with a problem leopard or a local hunter or "off duty" PH just out on his own? Would a rifle in .270win-300Win mag range still be considered ideal? Would such a rifle be considered ok for following up a wounded leopard or would a shotgun of some sort be a better choice?
What about the ecomonics of the choice?

It seems many recreational shooters, especially those from the US, are quite happy to have a number of "specialised" rifles for different tasks, but I have heard that local hunters Africa are more likely to have "a one rifle for everything" sort of approach for there hunting???

Regards,

Pete

I don't want to start another war (right!) but I think in the situation you described I would carry a 45/70 or 450 Marlin lever-action with a big ghost-ring sight....short, light and carries a powerful close-range punch.

I think the .270 or 300 with a Nosler are ideal Leopard weapons to start with....On a follow up I would prefer my double 450-400 and another person with a shotgun and the know how to use it on Leopard, wait until the last minute and give it one in the face.

I'd be real happy with my 30.06 for leopard..
..nothing fancier than a Nosler 165or180 Partition

Cats react to hydrodynamic shock, and big bullets, IIRC. Hydrodynamic shock starts at 2100 fps on humans(Fackler).

If I was out sitting for a leopard, I can't help but think that that same bait might bring a lion.

Now, you guys feel free to use your 30-06 to stop a lion. I'll just call you dinner, and St. Peter will probably send you the other way, on the basis of stupidity.

Kind of curious. How many shots do you think that Professional hunter can get off between the time the lion charges, and the time he eats you?
Seems to me the more people that have a chance of hitting, and killing a cat charging at 45+ miles an hour, at night, in the dark, the better.

In other words, I want a rifle that is capable of stopping the largest animal I'm likely to run into in that situation.

Seems to me rifles like that START at 375 H&H, and work up. Not saying the 375 H&H is ideal for stopping anything, but it's a start.

Don't elephants forage at night???


s
PS Ray mentioned something about a noticeable stopping ability, on cats, with 500 grain bullets, at 2200-2350 fps, in 45 caliber

My thoughts on the best rifle for leopard [or lion, as has been said above, he may come to the bait also] is a scoped 9,3x74R double rifle. Not too much recoil, plenty of power, and a fairly big and heavy bullet that will expand on the cats. By using a double you have a chance at a second shot immediately after the first. Also on the follow up you can remove the scope and have the advantages of a double there also. This one of the areas where a scoped medium double is a perfect choice. I also think it is the best choice for bear over bait too.

At this point in my hunting career any rilfe would be fine. I have had any where from 2-10 baits hanging for past 68 hunting days, sat in a blind once and havent seen squat. Just show me a leopard and I'll shoot it with anything at this point. GRRRR

Thanks for the input guys...I am hoping some of our African friends might comment with their perspective on the issue.

LV Eric,

That sounds like terrible bad luck! Where were you hunting and what were you using as bait? Do you have any idea why you were getting no takers like that?

Regards,

Pete

A similar thread came up a while back , producing some great posts. From what I remember, the consensus was that cats are highly succeptible to "shock," that is, a high speed bullet of reasonable expansion yet strong enough to hold together and penetrate( to me NOSLER comes to mind).

I would have to go with a 300 ( my preference is Weatherby) loaded with a 180gr Nosler or maybe a TTBC. jorge

Appreciate the guys sentiments on the lever action rifles. My personal favorite is a winchester 71 in .348. Cannot think of a better rifle for following up a wounded leopard unless it is my F.N. FAL in .308. Before I layed my hands on the 71, I used a standard Lee enfield .303. Lion are a different story, but a 7x57 with 175grn bullets, 7.62 with 150grn or a .303 with 174grn softs (not military ball) will crumple a charging leopard with as much style and penache as a .375 and considerably more penache than a .458 win with 500grn softs intended for something bigger.

My only complaint about the new marlin is that it kicks too much:- and velocity must be above 225o-2300fps to exploit a leopards succeptability to hydrostatic and nervous shock. Don't like a shotgun for two reasons on a follow up.
a) You are nearly as likely to see the leopard running away just outside shotgun range as you are to face a charge, and a good ghost ring sighted rifle is just the job for fixing that.
b) most charges occur at ranges of less than 10ft. A rifle bullet or a charge of buckshot will have to be delivered instinctively and the buck shot will not have spread out sufficiently to improve your hit potential and the velocity of the shotgun pelets is too low for satisfactory shock. You are better off using a brenneke slug in the shotgun. On those rare occasions when the leopard commes from some distance off, I really don't like waiting untill physical contact ranges to conclude things if I can help it. I want to be able to shoot accurately to 50 yards if that's what it takes to stop things getting personal.

Note _ Have many injuries, mainly from human hunters, but have never been chewed up by a leopard. Far too cunning a coward for that. Thanks.

If I was seaching for a leopard and not watching for one over bait I would carry my Sauer drilling. This gun will kill just about any medium to small game up close and out to 200 yds. I have a lot of confidence in my ability to bag stuff with this gun.

If I were hunting over bait alone I would use it also.

Bird or buckshot might be loaded in the shotgun barrels. It would depend on if I were after leopard 100% or not. In the 8mm rifle barrel I would use my 170 Hornady's on leopard. I would also carry the Norma 196 gr jacketed load.

Seems to me that baited leopard hunting is a bit like target shooting only with alot of nervousness. You need to be very accurate and then the deed is done cleaning and very quickly with any reasonable deer caliber. Jack O'Connor once wrote that he knew of a PH that swore by the .243 for baited hunts. So I'm thinking that any standard deer caliber that the hunter is quite comfortable and accurate with is just the ticket for the shot. For wounded cats you can go alot bigger, that makes sense but not mandatory. If a lion shows up I'm sure your PH will be suitably armed.

What do you call a hunter that uses a shotgun on leopard, including slugs?

DINNER!


http://african-hunter.com/baiting_cats.htm

Not in this article, but in another, they really go into minimum rounds for leopard.

They had specific experiences where shotguns really just pissed the cat off. NOT a good idea.

Here it is:

http://african-hunter.com/Rifle_Choice_4_Dangerous_Game.htm

Ganyana: Nice prose. Enjoy your writing.

Enjoy

[ 08-07-2003, 23:33: Message edited by: Socrates ]

I will happily shoot one with a .308 if I were in a blind. On a tracking hunt, I would probably opt for whatever rifle I shoot the most ... something I am very comfortable with. I imagine these tracking hunts can be very nerve-racking! Need to be able to make a quick, accurate shot.

On a hound hunt I would use a .375. Do not want the dogs or ph or me messed up. No telling what he will do when he hits the ground. Want to kill him and kill him good!

Mine was over bait. I used a .375 on mine, it was dead before it hit the ground.

I can see how someone can muff this shot though. I kept my cool, made a nice shot at about 70 yards +/- and have a nice cat to show for it.

I would guess the most difficult shot would be one on a tracking hunt, then one out of a blind, then one on a hound hunt (possibly, depending on the circumstances)

Keep in mind this is from a guy who has never been on a hound hunt for Leopard.

LV Eric,

I have spent a total of 2 hours in a Leopard blind. Shot mine on the first day of my first safari. Leopard hunting is easy

Each year the Zim PH Association passes out awards for the PH whose client takes the biggest buffalo, the biggest leopard, etc etc but they also have an award for (trackers etc) that do something note-worthy.....the award is usually won by a tracker who pulls an irate leopard off a PH who used a shotgun to follow-up a wounded animal.

The year I hunted Matetsi 6 there was a Texan in camp who lightly wounded a fairly small female leopard (his 4th trip for leopard and he wanted to complete the Big 5) just at dark and the PH decided they would wait overnight to follow-up. They drove up to the spot where the cat had gone out of sight and as they got out of the vehicle the cat, who had evidently spent the night waiting, made it's move. The PH was screened by the vehicle and the client, shooting a pump-gun hit the cat with 2 shots (no apparent effect) but the at the 3rd shot the cat fell close enough to touch witht the gun barrel. As it turns out, the client had loaded #6 birdshot rather than buck-shot as instructed. All 3 shots hit the leopard but the only pellets that penetrated more that a superifical distance were two that had clumped together and passed thru one of the eyes into the brain -----2 pellets!

Now that's a fellow who is even luckier than Wendell.

Wendell,
What do you think it is that makes people "muff" the shot on a baited leopard; and, how can one prepare to overcome this?

Aren't cats supposed to be more affected by hydrostatic shock than other dangerous game?

If so, I would think that something like a 300 mag with partitions would be nice for the first shot.

After that, how about an Ithaca Mag 10 shotgun with 3.5 inch buckshot shells?

What gun to use for leopard followup is a personal thing, some use a rifle while others prefer the shotgun. George Hoffman, God rest his soul, seemed to like the shotgun, as did Wally Johnson. I know several current PHs in Tanzania that do too, pump guns with 000 buchsot alternating with slugs. Whatever you feel comfy with!
First shot on a baited leopard can be accomplished with just about anything 243cal and up, again it's what the hunter feels most comfy with. My own preference is a high velocity round like the 300mag, it has worked fine for me on past hunts and if ever I hunt leopard again it will work just fine.

I agree that the .348 is a splinded caliber for close work on Leopard although they are probably as scarce as hens teeth in Africa...the carbine version would really be great...thats a gun I have used a little and I sure like them..

I would also be OK with a 30-30 Carbine M-94 Win. on charging leopard, I have shot Mt. Lion with it and it hammers them to the ground..The old 30 still kills anything to 800 or so pounds pretty quick up close...but I still would opt for my double 450-400 with softs, I like that fast 2nd shot and mostly thats all your going to get if that...A fast bullet is fine broadside in a tree, but coming straight on or going away I think the 450 would be better and should shoot through them length wise...

SBT.......I can tell you what makes a hunter "muff" a 50-yard shot, from a rest, on a standing target. It's anticipation!

When I was in my early teens back in the early '50's I read Ruark's "Horn of the Hunter" and was hooked. I had been reading his column in Field & Stream for quite awhile but the book just blew me away especially the story about Harriet's leopard. After that, every squirrel and every groundhog I shot as a youth (and I bet if you added them all up they would weight more than an eland) I pretended they were a leopard. Every time I went to the range there were a few "leopard" shots to keep in practice.

Fast forward and the teenager is now 50-something and in Africa on a 15-day hunt for leopard and despite spending almost every nite in the blind and plenty of cat sign in the area ---- never had a cat in the tree while we were on that bait. I was not a happpy camper on the way home.

Two years go by and ground squirrels have been my leopard but I'm back in Africa and we start hanging baits but no action...tracks walking down the road right past the bait...cat scat under trees....nothing...nada...zilch. I make a one shot kill on a big buff but no leopard action. Make a nice shot on a really big sable but no leopard action...kudu, zebra, warthog, impala. baboons, replace baits...and then we have a cat on every bait but one....we select the one we want and build the blind. And then....it starts. I get the jumps, butterflys as big as eagles in my stomach...I can't eat lunch...can't nap...talk about performance anxiety. The PH comes by and says lets go check your rifle and set it for 50 yards......a target is tacked to a tree and I take a padded rest over the hood and proceed to miss the tree. The trackers look away. I take a deep breath and the second shot just touches the paper. The 3rd shot hits an inch high just where it's supposed to be. I fire a 2nd shot and it touches the previous one. I move it down and it's spot on...we're ready and the trackers are smiling again.

1st afternoon in the blind after 3 hours the PH hears the leopard and just then an elephantcomes down the road and that's it.

2nd afternoon we actually have to bust out the side of the blind as a different elephant takes exception to our presence and mangles it...no leopard of course.

Let it rest the 3rd day except for replacing some baits. I'm grumpy, irritable and spend a lot of time staring at the Zambezi River and cursing Robert Ruark and Harriet Maytag.

4th day.....after 3 hours, and just at dusk the cat hits the tree and I hit it a little high and back a bit more than I wanted...as the cat runs into the short grass out of sight I was looking for an elephant to stomp me into the ground...didn't happen. The follow-up was more than exciting and I made the shot when I had to and no one got hurt.

Why do hunters miss an easy shot on a leopard? Blame it on Harriet Maytag.

This is an excerpt from an interesting article in African Hunter magazine about stopping leopard charges.

"If you go through the Professional Hunters and Guides Association awards for bravery, an inordinate number seem to go to trackers who rescue their PH's from under a leopard they failed to stop with a shotgun. If you go through the records of the Department of National Parks, 86% of the PH's injured by animals fall prey to leopards, and invariably wounded leopards whose charges they have failed to stop with a shotgun. Bear in mind that at leopard charge ranges, the shot from a shotgun will not have begun to spread out. You therefore have a heavy, but very slow and very frangible projectile. Pellets are round and tend to ricochet off the skull, whilst all but the heaviest pellets may not get through the chest muscles. Not what the doctor ordered.

"As Brian Marsh pointed out in an excellent article on the subject in last June's edition of Magnum, the best weapon for leopard is the one you are most familiar with. Unless you are a keen (and good) bird shooter who can definitely snap shoot better with your shotgun than a rifle, leave the shotgun at home. Also very few semi-auto shotguns and even fewer pumps are well fitting firearms (go and see how many are used for competition) and I, like Brian am convinced that 99% of hunters would be much better served by their rifles. If you are worried about being able to snap shoot with your normal rifle, get the stock professionally altered so that it fits you better than any off-the-shelf shotgun. In short, use a reasonably fitting rifle and you are very unlikely to end up under a leopard.

"For those who insist on using a shotgun, use Breneke slugs. At least they will penetrate adequately on a leopard, and create a massive wound channel. Do NOT use the American Foster type slugs. On an unwounded cat they are great, but the only ones I've seen used on a charging leopard failed to get through the ribs, and that from a 3" Magnum load. The new saboted slugs will penetrate fine but give you a wound channel half the size of the Breneke:- pass. If you can get copper plated LG (000 Buck) that might be OK for the first shot if you really want to use shot, but you had better have a slug in the other barrel for when the shot fails." -Ganyana

DB Bill,
Thank you for a most excellent story. Now I understand. I wonder if Harriet Maytag has any idea how many young men she has seduced?

SBT,

I have no idea. It just happens!

I shot a Black Bear (over bait in Saskatchewan) the distance was about 14 yards ... I pulled the shot.

How in the heck can a guy muff a shot at 14 yards? I hit the Bear, killed it instantly, but I actually jerked the shot!

I was amazed at what I had done. I still can not explain it.

Now, make that a Leopard, instead of a small Black Bear and you can understand it. I think Bill is right. Anticipation.

You know it's funny but I think different animals affect us different ways.

I had no problem getting in close with buffalo as I had no "emotional investment" with them like I did with leopards. It may be a case of being too dumb to know better but I felt confident that I could make a good shot and that the PH and I could handle whatever came along if I didn't. It may also be that we got in close on a number of buff before we found one that I was looking for....with the leopard it was almost years of anticipation and it doesn't make any difference how many books you read or how many videos you read, when you see "your" first leopard thru the scope if you don't "feel the thrill" you shouldn't be there.

Thank God there are still experiences like that.

After seeing that video posted here by one of our members, it strenghtened my opinion that a big cat is much more frightening that ol' M'Bogo. As usual, I defer to those of you here that have stared down that predicament! jorge

Since it seems that most leopards are shot from a blind in poor light the scope you use is as important as the caliber. I would opt for one of those oversized, over powered Euro scopes that I otherwise have no use for.

I'm sure a hand held sub machine gun would be the best Leopard medicine in the world, no one will argue that. It is illegal I would think.

I don't know what it is about Leopard but people get more excited in a Leopard blind than any place else I know of and the number of easy shots at Leopard that are muffed or end up wounded is amazing or so it seems to me...I don't understand it! I mean a 50 yard shot is a 50 yard shot, quails head or an elephant and the same folks that can shoot a quails head off will wound a Leopard or flat miss it, so it seems to me...dunno????

Now understand this is the exception rather than the rule IMO, but I have seen it.

10ga, #4... double rifle....

the end

jeffe

Any rifle that you can shoot well that is in the 30-06 class with a good scope will do for the first shot on a Leopard. Following a wounded leopard use a 12ga pump shotgun with 00 or 000 buckshot. End of discussion........

I have never hunted Africa as of yet but if, you could use the Semis over ther I'm with 500grain , I use a Auto-10ga load with the 3 1/2" 000, and have done in a truck load of deer now and a couple of black bears, I know not the same, but I have faith in that combo