I've had some issues on booked trips before, though fortunately none in Africa. I've been on an elk hunt where my guide brought his brother -in-law along for a free hunt and set him up for a great bull while the paying hunters got nothing. In Africa I've heard of PH's that condemned the politics/military of the US while pissing off his US customer. How about you? How could a PH piss off his client?

Here are a few that would irk me.

He can:
• be drunk when the client arrives in camp
• be drunk while hunting
• ignore client's priorities regarding animals
• ignore client's 'standards' for trophy quality
• ignore client's instructions re follow-up shots on game
• continually push client to shoot animals he/she is not interested in
• not know the hunting area
• suggest the hunting party violate local laws
• condemn 'sport hunting tourists'
• be disrespectful toward the client and/or his companion(s)
• hit on the client and/or his companion(s)
• fail to supervise the camp staff
• fail to ensure that the trophies are handled properly, and delivered to the taxidermist or shipping agent in a timely manner
• ask to be made a gift of some part of the client's kit

George

After George's list I can only add:
Drinking all my scotch in two days
Wanting to leave early because "You got more than your money's worth"

The PH who gets up late in the morning and takes long lunch breaks.

Regards,

Terry

George,

That's quite a list, I hope you haven't personally experienced all those.... on the same safari.

My only addition; A drunk PH too lazy to get out of the truck and go after game. Seems like liquor plays an important part in this thread.

Damn brandy and cokes!

BigBullet

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:

He can:
• ignore client's priorities regarding animals
• ignore client's 'standards' for trophy quality
• ignore client's instructions re follow-up shots on game

George

I've never had a PH that was fond of the drink, but these hit a sore spot. There's nothing worse than paying for a PH's expertise in judging trophy quality, or in distinguishing male from female (difficult with gemsbok, tsessebe, and others), then having the PH call an animal good when it is the wrong sex, or obviously small.

As for the last, I hunted with a PH who didn't carry a rifle at all. He considered himself a guide, not a hunter. It wasn't needed, but I'd have rather he had one to help should I have fluffed a shot.

Our PH in RSA talked on a cell phone 2 or 3 times a day while we were out, most of the time it was while we were in the car. Hell, one day even the tracker got a call from his girlfriend

I don't own a cell phone and didn't fly to africa to hear one ring while on safari.

Yep, no cell phones. Don't use them while we're out hunting (unless there is an emergency, of course). I don't even want to hear a cell phone ring in camp. If they need to speak with their wife or girlfriend or whatever, then walk away from the camp a little ways and talk there.

No radios, stereos, TVs, computers, etc. in camp. I'm there to enjoy nature and to get away from the pressures of modern urban life.

-Bob F.

quote:

Originally posted by T.Carr:
The PH who gets up late in the morning and takes long lunch breaks.

Regards,

Terry

It's funnny how some PHs don't understand that...

I mean hunting an extra hour on the morning hunt and leaving for the afternoon hunt an hour early = 28 hours over the course of a 2-week safari.

Figure you're hunting 4-hours each morning and 4-hours each evening and you roughly can pick up an extra 3 full hunting days!

I realize most don't think that you see as much during these mid-day hours, but it only takes about 10-seconds to stumble into the "whatever trophy" of a life time.

Amen brother.

Tell me a lie or disparage my sons on the trip. He would be thumped man pretty darn quick.

Don't BS me.

Don't ignore my companion's considerations.

Don't drink to excess.

Don't run on about how the US has screwed up Africa.

Don't act like I'm only there to pull the trigger. Big NO-NO!

I arrived in the country and was picked up at the airport. On the drive to the concession the arsehole proceeded to tell me that he had a feel for certain things, and that some clients were just problem clients and that nothing a PH did would satisfy them. He said he was worried I was going to be one of these clients.

Maybe this jerk liked self-fulfilling prophesies!

Anyway I explained to Mr Ego that while I might ask 50 questions during the booking stage once the booking was made and we were hunting I was there to enjoy it and hunt and was very easy going.

This hunt was totally fucked up by events outside his and my control and we made the best out of it by alternative means.

In the end the safari went well enough considering the outside influences and I had a great time and PH Egotist had to admit I WAS very easy going on safari. I don't worry about record heads or even want to measure the inches. I just want a representative mature animal and a GOOD hunt. Hell I even enjoyed the ruckous and Warvets as this IS Africa and political fuck-ups happen and are part of life there. As long as no blood is spilled.


But I think if a PH gave me that speal again I would tell him to turn the vehicle around, take me back to the airport and refund me my deposit.


PH Ego also said something else on the safari which for his reputation I have never repeated as it was said in a stressful moment for him, not me but was completely inexcusable. This is the first time I have even referred to it.


***


Another thing to piss off clients is to sit in a camp and have a PH (this bloke was from another company) bad talk and laugh about his previous clients. Some of whom I met in camp before they left. Sure some clients are old or do silly things but don't talk about it in front of another client.

One thing that really bothers me is when a PH walks up to your freshly killed animal pulls out a tape and starts measuring it right then and there.

Maybe it's just a quirk of mine but I find that to be horribly disrespectfull to the animal and to the hunter. In fact it pisses me off.

I don't hunt primarily for score I hunt for the experience and the joy of of the whole hunt. I am not one of those who suddenly becomes disstatisfied with my animal because he lacks an inch from the "book".

Greg.

How about a PH who shoots the client's animals (see, e.g., the Mark Sullivan films)?

quote:

Another thing to piss off clients is to sit in a camp and have a PH (this bloke was from another company) bad talk and laugh about his previous clients. Some of whom I met in camp before they left. Sure some clients are old or do silly things but don't talk about it in front of another client.

I have had this happen more than once. I guess they don't know or care that the hunting community is rather tight knit, and we might just know these clients.

If you can't say something nice about a client, keep your mouth shut. Always look for something positive to say about your fellow hunters.
You must earn respect it will not be given to you for free!!!!!

Wimpie
Also a PH

quote:

Originally posted by RBHunt:

quote:

Another thing to piss off clients is to sit in a camp and have a PH (this bloke was from another company) bad talk and laugh about his previous clients. Some of whom I met in camp before they left. Sure some clients are old or do silly things but don't talk about it in front of another client.

I have had this happen more than once. I guess they don't know or care that the hunting community is rather tight knit, and we might just know these clients.

You are much much closer to the truth than you know.

quote:

How about a PH who shoots the client's animals (see, e.g., the Mark Sullivan films)?

I watched another DVD recently where that PH also thought he should put a .470 into EVERY buffalo hunted on the movie and went on to talk endlessly about it around the campfire.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
One thing that really bothers me is when a PH walks up to your freshly killed animal pulls out a tape and starts measuring it right then and there.

Maybe it's just a quirk of mine but I find that to be horribly disrespectfull to the animal and to the hunter. In fact it pisses me off.

I don't hunt primarily for score I hunt for the experience and the joy of of the whole hunt. I am not one of those who suddenly becomes disstatisfied with my animal because he lacks an inch from the "book".

Greg.

I fully agree On our trip to RSA I told the PH on the first day to leave the tape in the car, we don't care to measure anything.

I had my wife along to RSA and we were sitting in camp in the heat of the day, when the PH says to one of the staff in Afrikan " doesn't the Mrs. have a lovely a$$ and big T--s, I'd like to #$%^ her a good one" you should have seen their faces when I replied in Afrikan " I have" then proceeded to teach this 30 yr old PH a few good old fashion Yankee manners!
I led my wife into the main lodge demanded to see the owner and pronto he showed up. I told my story and had another PH inside of an hour along with seeing the original PH booted from camp.
We were treated like true royalty the remainder of our trip and the owner offered extra animals trophy fee pro bono .
I will not mention the name of the company here as most readers will know of it. I will however mention the Ph's name Klug Kristopher ...I assume his lip is back to normal size by now!!!!

BALLBUSTER,

Wow! I think I would have "lost it" at that point.

The SOB deserves more than just a bloody lip!

Dave

Acts like Mark Sullivan.

I hope the things George mentioned don't happen too often, that is not a safari, is a nightmare!!

Seriously I don't think they can happend very often, a ph needs a licence and learn from some otherone, so I think nobody will teach somebody that don't has at least good manners.

The only thing I don't like, is a ph that walks too quickly, I like to walk slowly, glassing, waiting...is my style of hunt and I don't enjoy when someone is pushing me too do everything quickly. But this is not something bad from the ph, just different hunting styles.

L

quote:

Originally posted by BALLBUSTER:
I had my wife along to RSA and we were sitting in camp in the heat of the day, when the PH says to one of the staff in Afrikan " doesn't the Mrs. have a lovely a$$ and big T--s, I'd like to #$%^ her a good one" you should have seen their faces when I replied in Afrikan " I have" then proceeded to teach this 30 yr old PH a few good old fashion Yankee manners!
I led my wife into the main lodge demanded to see the owner and pronto he showed up. I told my story and had another PH inside of an hour along with seeing the original PH booted from camp.
We were treated like true royalty the remainder of our trip and the owner offered extra animals trophy fee pro bono .
I will not mention the name of the company here as most readers will know of it. I will however mention the Ph's name Klug Kristopher ...I assume his lip is back to normal size by now!!!!

You did the right thing!

How about a PH who says, "You can just leave that Marlin 45/70 in its gun case and use your other rifle"?

We had a PH in Namibia (of German origin) tell us he thought it was a shame that Gemany lost WW2. He obviously didn't know much of Norwegian history, and the years we were occupied.

My mother was hunting there too at the time, and as a child experianced her and her family being kicked out of their home during the war by the Gestapo (they wanted the farm as the regional Gestapo headquarters) she was not very impressed with this PH to say the least...

quote:

Originally posted by ErikD:
We had a PH in Namibia (of German origin) tell us he thought it was a shame that Gemany lost WW2.

I'd reply "it's a shame we (USA) nuked the Japs instead of his shithole country".

I do not hunt RSA these days not because of the before mentioned incident. But rather it seems just about anyone with the will can get a PH lis. there now.
Whatever became of earning the tag PH?

[No radios, stereos, TVs, computers, etc. in camp. I'm there to enjoy nature and to get away from the pressures of modern urban life.

-Bob F.[/QUOTE]

Hey Bob are you going to use any of the ice from the new ice maker?

Well, I could get along very nicely without ice. I wasn't trying to say I was against all modern conveniences. I just don't like the ones that audibly interfere or intrude on my "serenity" and the experience.

I've only been to Africa twice to hunt; in 2000 and 2002. Both times it was a game farm hunt in South Africa (same farm). I'm going back in August to the same place. While it is a game farm, we stay in a tent camp. All the cooking is done over an open wood fire. I like that; it adds a little to the ambiance. I do NOT want to stay in a farmer's house like the accommodations are on so many game farms in South Africa. I want so smell the smoke from the campfire, the canvas of the tents, and breathe the night air.

So, each to his own....

-Bob F.

Well there is old Pano Calavrias. The reference standard for piss poor PH's (PPP). If it's possible to screw things up on safari he's the man to do it. The memory of him screeming "gambini, gambini gambini" into the microphone of his radio( which I disconnected by the way) while crashing through the bush with every animal in the Selous running in the other direction will haunt me foreever!My buddy who was with me at the time was deply concerned that a AD was going to happen or old Pano was going to Stroke Out on us. I rather enjoyed seeing that big vein in his forehead pulsating the way it did. He must of had a Blood pressure of 200/120 while with us. Too bad I couldn't get him to hit Tilt!-Rob

Outside of one post that made referance to a PH getting up late, no mention has been made of "Being on time".

It starts right at the airport, when the PH is 30 minutes late picking us up, and he never made up that 30 minutes all week.

Everytime we were to go anywhere, he always was late getting started, and usually because he was on the dam phone every minute we were in range.

Once while stalking a Rhino, the phone rang, and I promise you, that was the LAST time I heard that phone for a week, nuff said.

The worst thing a PH ever did to piss me off on a safari. Easy. How about breaking off hot buffalo tracks at 7:30 a.m. because "they have probably bedded by now", heading back to the truck for kahawa for an hour and then looking at me and saying "let's hunt impala this morning". Then saying it wasn't safe to hunt buff in the afternoon. Might shoot one and lose it to the lions if it ran off!
This happened on a ten day two buffalo hunt in Tanzania. I'd shot one buff on day six out of the first group of bulls I saw. We were finally in buffalo after changing camps. And this guy was doing everything he could to keep us out of buffalo. I will NEVER hunt with an American PH in Africa again! Period, exclamation point!

Bwanarm

Sounds like they might have already shot the quota. If I remember you were there quite late in the year. Adam Clements and I are bookng those areas now and no BS like that should go on. In fact Adam has reduced the quota to provide a better quality experience plus done several other things to improve the hunting.

And yes I would have been foaming at the mouth if it had been me in that situation.

Regards,

Mark

I have had this once but it has also happened to a friend of mine as well and that is a PH grabbing my gun barrel and putting it on the sticks. I told him that I did not want him to touch my gun again when I was about to shoot. It was dangerous and offensive.

We had something similar happen in RSA last year.

We also hunted late in the season, due to LaRita having cancer surgery. The outfitter, to his credit, did work with us and let us reschedule after the doctor released her. So anyway we get to camp and the evening before the hunt started we sat down with the PH and told him we didn’t want to measure anything. We weren’t worried about an inch or two of horn, we were there to have a good time. Then he asked “of the animals on our package, what do we really want?†LaRita, spoke up and said “kudu and hartebeestâ€.
10 days later when the hunt was over she had neither, she never had a kudu in the scope. We looked at a bunch of hartebeest and on all but one was always told they were to small. The one that was big enough was gone by the time we got off the truck and the PH got the sticks up. I know its hunting and not shooting, but I also know the dollar had just decreased in value, we were on a package hunt at the end of the season that we’d booked the year before and these are high dollar animals. So I guess I’ll always wonder how much of this was hunting and how much was economics? Either way I felt bad for her and learned from this I will not book another package hunt. From now on I’ll pay for what we shoot not what we might shoot.

quote:

Originally posted by mark65x55:
We had something similar happen in RSA last year.

We also hunted late in the season, due to LaRita having cancer surgery. The outfitter, to his credit, did work with us and let us reschedule after the doctor released her. So anyway we get to camp and the evening before the hunt started we sat down with the PH and told him we didn’t want to measure anything. We weren’t worried about an inch or two of horn, we were there to have a good time. Then he asked “of the animals on our package, what do we really want?†LaRita, spoke up and said “kudu and hartebeestâ€.
10 days later when the hunt was over she had neither, she never had a kudu in the scope. We looked at a bunch of hartebeest and on all but one was always told they were to small. The one that was big enough was gone by the time we got off the truck and the PH got the sticks up. I know its hunting and not shooting, but I also know the dollar had just decreased in value, we were on a package hunt at the end of the season that we’d booked the year before and these are high dollar animals. So I guess I’ll always wonder how much of this was hunting and how much was economics? Either way I felt bad for her and learned from this I will not book another package hunt. From now on I’ll pay for what we shoot not what we might shoot.

Mark that is an absolute shame and probably the worst of all the annoyances listed IMHO.

Yeah, if I had it to do again I would take the PH off to the side and tell him again we aren't worried about the score, she just wants one and the next one she likes she's pulling the trigger! If it makes her happy and I'm paying for it I don't see the problem. I sure wish I'd done that then and I WILL if it happens again.

quote:

Originally posted by bwanamrm:
The worst thing a PH ever did to piss me off on a safari. Easy. How about breaking off hot buffalo tracks at 7:30 a.m. because "they have probably bedded by now", heading back to the truck for kahawa for an hour and then looking at me and saying "let's hunt impala this morning". Then saying it wasn't safe to hunt buff in the afternoon. Might shoot one and lose it to the lions if it ran off!
This happened on a ten day two buffalo hunt in Tanzania. I'd shot one buff on day six out of the first group of bulls I saw. We were finally in buffalo after changing camps. And this guy was doing everything he could to keep us out of buffalo. I will NEVER hunt with an American PH in Africa again! Period, exclamation point!

Care to share the Outfitter with us? Who was the PH? I certainly don't care to do business with them.

Rob told me about the gambini guy when the STC hunting club had their first outing in november...

I was standing there, in shock, and wondering Pano hadn't hd an accident or three?


Here's something that happened to me, in the states, that pissed me the F off...

stalking pigs.. the owner is there with me "guiding" me on pigs (that's a funny start)... i get us infront of a line of pigs, they have no clue i am there (wind, trees, still as jeff)... I keep peaking around the tree to wait for my prey.... out he comes....slow comes the rifle....

and this rocket scientist pushes the top of my right shoulder as I am squeezing the trigger...

<guide>
"you missed.... how could you miss from 45 yards broad side"

<jeffe... in a low growl>
"i had help"

jeffe