Now that everyone aired their laundry how about a solution. Aaron and Lane, please educate me on what will be the plan and what are the restrictions that need to be put in place. Details would be nice because I know virtually nothing about it.

thanks,

Check out the wiki and you can see the mind think. It really is some good stuff.

www.liondiscussion.wikispaces.com

Jerry,

Search for a recent (last 6 months) thread on the Niassa lion program. It's a good read and outlines their system and its track record thus far.

Brett

Will do Brett, thank you.

Hi Jerry,

Aaron left for 3 weeks this morning...so we will have to do with out his very informative posts for a while.

Look at our Wikispaces page listed above for starters...very informative stuff there and don't forget it has many components list on the left hand side of the discussion page.

It was good to see you in Dallas sir and if you have more specific questions after reading...please post them.

So Kenya and RSA "small" Game Farms are not the answer??

Thank you Lane, I will look it up and read.

The Niassa Reserve (Mozambique)and its Carnivore Project have a great system in place from what I have seen.

Does the 6yr+ rule on lions apply to game farmers as well?.....(just thinking out load)

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
The Niassa Reserve (Mozambique)and its Carnivore Project have a great system in place from what I have seen.

It is considered the "gold standard" by most experts right now.

Fujo,
Are you speaking of captive bred lions???

505 - No question, JJ is the biggest proponent of the lion and all that is wildlife conservation. His commitment is beyond reproach, and CF should be supported to the fullest extent. The LCTF, has suggested his support as much as anyone.

But, as you would know, if you had spent hours of your time speaking with JJ, answering and communicating with him via dozens of emails, and attended the personal meetings the LCTF has had with him in the past 2 months. You would know his focus, as it should be is on the application of the law, as it pertains to the ESA listing, or the CITES up-listing! He's an attorney, that's his specialty, and no one knows it better than him!

The focus of the LCTF is changing protocal within our own fraternity! We are NOT legal experts, so we leave the legal stuff to JJ and the CF. We are fighting for the same cause, but taking two different approaches, as to who is the target audience, to some degree. JJ has his hands full dealing with all the legality issues of the ESA listing, etc, etc, etc.

He's fully aware of our approach, and is supporting us too, 100%! I get emails from him on a daily basis. As an attorney, its his motive, to only approach an issue from the stance of the law. He rarely, if ever, gives a nod to the opposition, even when recognizing a problem. Does that make sense, are you following me?

He must take a different approach than us, and WE HAVE ALL discussed that in PERSON. So once again, if you really knew all the info/facts, you might better understand exactly what's going on, and WHY!!! I don't mean to be condescending, but there's much that has been done/said, that you simply have NOT been a party to.

The potential listing, will uphold the 90-day review. The fight will begin after that! Our biggest asset/liability will be what side the likes of Dr. Craig Packer, Dr. Luke Hunter, Dr. Colleen Begg, and others, take. Period, end of story, and I can't stress that enough!! So, if they see and recognize the hunting fraternity's willingness and ability to assert change as it pertains to shooting young lions, dependent pride holding males, etc, etc. They will without a doubt, side with the hunters, they have all but said so. However, is they see status quo, the continued shooting of young lions, etc. They will side in favor of the uplisting. And unfortunately the USFWS, CITES and Ken Salazar are gonna listen to the "EXPERTS", regardless of what you think, say, lobby against, or do!

The needed change, has been proven with the best available science to be sound. So, who do you think they're gonna listen to. I don't like it anymore than you do, but unfortunately "POLITICS", plays a part in African Wildlife Conservation, just like it does in most other aspects of life.

Its important to recognize the difference between what we are doing and what JJ/CF is doing. JJ knows, and so do we, and we ALL support eachother!