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I know tipping has been discussed in length... but, what do you think would be an appropriate tip for a bowhunt where you will be hunting from hides without the PH being present? He will be on call for recovery, but not sitting in the hide with you. Any thoughts? -------------------------------------------- National Rifle Association - Life Member National Wild Turkey Federation - Diamond Life Sponsor Pope & Young Club - Associate Member | ||
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10% of the cost of the hunt. Keep in mind he set up the blind and will assist in recovery. Jim | |||
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Damn, they'll be lined up hoping you come their way. Tips range from nothing to guns, cars, houses, the whole bit. I figure it's about like giving a horse sugar treats. Once he gets one that's about all it thinks about anytime you're around.  Tip whatever you want to or don't want to. No matter how much you tip there are guys that will tip a hell of a lot more. If are trying to buy the guy's love and admiration, good luck. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Personally I don't bow hunt but I would want him in the blind for trophy judgement unless you are comfortable with judging your own trophies. I say this because it isn't like sitting in blind for say deer in the states. You are paying big bucks and what is he doing above and beyond the call of duty. Setting up the blind and recovery are just a normal part of his job. Where is he while you are hunting? Is he hunting with another client or just back at camp reading a book with a beer? TIPS are for service above and beyond the normal service. JMO which is what you ask for, eh. I haven't found a PH worth 10% of the cost of a hunt. | |||
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Been there. I tipped all the staff and nothing to the ph/owner.2 of the 6 days we were taken to and from the blinds by a tracker we never saw the ph until dinner. Big issue shooting a female gemsbuck after permission was granted to shoot one. We saw very little in the way of shootable animals for 6 days. his comment was maybe the cheetah i shot the day you arrived had something to do with it ? Like I would flipping know ! I would when bowhunting only consider a small tip to the ph , unless you really bugger one up and he then has to work his butt off to recover for you. tip as service dictates. Africa Bug " Embrace the bite , live for adventure " EJ Carter 2011 | |||
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I would rather be in the hide by myself than with the PH if I am bow hunting. Animal selection much easier at 20 yards than at 100 where his experience should really be a factor. Less noise, movement, scent, etc. The main reason for him being in the blind would be trophy judgement , or letting you shoot a cull where it would be his call as far as if a trophy fee would be charged. Example,,, an old eland ready for the jackels and the ph says, would you shoot him and put him down for me as a favor,,, heck yes. Last 2 bow safaris,,, 10 animals each trip, and I tipped him 10%. He helped with blind selections based on what animals I was after, would come and move me when the wind was changed for that blind,,,, without me calling in on radio. I kept us all busy tracking and trophy handling, etc. I felt he easily earned his tip. I was paying less for the daily fee since I was doing it solo so to speak than what a gun hunt with spotters, trackers, scouts, PH, vehicles etc. cost. Tip what you think his service was of value to you. you can make more money, you can not make more time | |||
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Depending where your Safaris is. In South Africa a PH must be present at all times when the clients goes into the veld - That's the law out here. What happens if you are in trouble and no PH to assist you? Did you know that even plains game can be dangerous. Then and only then he deserves a tip... Dream it...Discover it...Experience it... Patrick Reynecke Outfitter and Professional Hunter Bushwack Safaris Box 1736 Rustenburg 0300 North West Province South Africa www.bushwacksafaris.co.za Cell: +27 82 773 4099 Email: bushwacksafaris@vodamail.co.za | |||
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Bushwack-It may be the law that you must be accompanied by a PH but it is one that is frequently ignored, especially with regards to bowhunters. I have hunted in RSA twice, both times in your provence. The hunt was booked as 2x1 and on both hunts the modus operandi was to take us to our blinds and leave us unattended but with a radio. When we shot we would call for assistance and the PH and a tracker would come to track and recover the game. One of these trips was my first trip to Africa and I shot some really young animals and some female animals as well because I simply just did not know any better. Also paid good money to have them mounted. This happens more often than you would think. We seldom get to choose But I've seen them go both ways And I would rather go out in a blaze of glory Than to slowly rot away! | |||
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10% of the daily fee only for me regardless of method of take. Of course adjustments are always possible and by all means always tip the staff either through a tipping pool, individually or a combination of both. What ever you do, wait until the end of the hunt. My hunting partner once had a blue ribbon day hunting and tipped the tracker and skinner a small amount at the end of the day, the next day my tracker and skinner were all over me, they couldn't be more helpful to the point of rudeness. I didn't find out the reason to later. | |||
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A tip is a gift for good, or exceptional service. Tips are not required, nor should anyone be shamed into giving one. | |||
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That sums it up about as well as can be. If the PH is just driving you from camp to the blind and then coming back to get you or help load your game, tip him based on his driving skills. If you want to give a tip, A., it is your choice, and B, it is your choice as to how much to give. JMO. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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This reminds me of the bow hunter who was left alone by the PH and had a black mamba enter the hide. The bow hunter exited the hide, but continued to video the mamba. It was clear form the hunters comments that he had no idea that it was a very dangerous snake. The hunter was clearly very new to Africa. When the PH finally showed-up he killed the snake with a shotgun. The video was posted her a year or two ago. I have had PHs allow me to hunt alone, but I had quite a bit of experience(enough to know to stay clear of mambas). I wonder, what would the PH would have done if he arrived at the blind to pick-up the bow hunter, only to find him long dead from a mamba bite? Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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Everyone knows that bowhunters tip worse than Mr. Pink.  Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Bushwack: Are you kidding? There are literally 100's of RSA so-called PH's who don't/won't accompany clients into the blind. Bow shooter or otherwise. Hell, the TV and the INTERNET are full of videos that show clients alone in the blind. ALWAYS in RSA. RSA is THE place for the stay-at-home PH sitting around camp waiting for the radio call from the client who has shot something. Give us a break, will you? 114-R10David | |||
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Tipping rules are easy...tip whatever you feel is right...not what someone else thinks is appropriate Mike Never under estimate the internet community to use any opportunity to reply to a post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence problem.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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PRECISELY! And remember, it is NOT obligated to pay a tip. It is only as a show of appreciations for a job well done over and above what you have ALREADY paid for. I really don't like it when an outfitter advertises a hunt and adds "tips not included". This gives the impression that they are required. I have no problems giving a generous tip, but don't keep dropping hints about it. Because if you do, you aren't going to get any. I apply this rule everywhere service is offered and a tip is normally given. And I have had occasions where I have refused to pay even the "15% tip included". I have deducted it and paid the rest, and told them that there is no way in hell I would pay for a service that was totally unacceptable. | |||
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You now this story of having a set guideline for tipping is a load of BS, it is like a restuarant waiter who expects at least 15% of the bill no matter what the level of service is. In my game one really does not or should i say did not hear about pilots being tipped or myself being tipped but i find myself recieving some really nice tips in money | |||
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TWL, In my eye's it is unprofessional where the Client must do the hunt alone and actually must know more of what to do than the PH...He is surpose to be the professional, the main Cowboy... If he doesn't want to sit in the blind with you, then contract the Safari out to someone who does enjoy the "Art of hunting" and loves to be in the bush, afterall isn't that what it is all about...The "George Washingtons" and booking the next hunt can follow later...DAMN MAN, KEEP THE CLIENT HAPPY... Dream it...Discover it...Experience it... Patrick Reynecke Outfitter and Professional Hunter Bushwack Safaris Box 1736 Rustenburg 0300 North West Province South Africa www.bushwacksafaris.co.za Cell: +27 82 773 4099 Email: bushwacksafaris@vodamail.co.za | |||
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That is exactly why it is Law and the ph stays accountable for any of your actions, Lets say you shoot a specialy protected animal what then ? "Buy land they have stopped making it"- Mark Twain | |||
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I suppose in that case the PH and Tracker would do a "recovery" and load him in the truck and take him to the skinning shed to be trucked out of the bush at the end of the season along with all the other dead animals.  -------------------------------------------- National Rifle Association - Life Member National Wild Turkey Federation - Diamond Life Sponsor Pope & Young Club - Associate Member | |||
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How about we take this discussion and turn it on its side and look at it from a slightly different angle. Saeed made this comment: I really don't like it when an outfitter advertises a hunt and adds "tips not included". Now I do include that very phrasing, "Tips/Gratuities Not Included In Hunt Price", in my information, simply because I want my clients to know, that the money they are paying, is strictly for the hunt, and that if they wish to give a tip/gratuity, that is their business. In my operation, tips are appreciated, but never expected. I think many times the subject of tips and tipping in genral, is more of a concern for the clients than the PH's/Guides/Outfitters. Just my personal preference, but I want a client to tip me on the job I did for him/her, Because They Want To, NOT because they feel obligated. Getting back to Saeed's comment, and I can only speak for myself and my situation, but the reason I use that phrasing, is so that clients will not have to be asking me what an appropriate tip is. In my screwed up little world, while a monetary tip is nice and comes in handy, a 12 pack of Heineken and having the client set and drink a few of them with me is plenty good. I enjoy the hell out of hunting, hence the reason I work at being a guide. I may not be the one doing the shooting, but I am in on the kill, which as I get older is better than making the kill myself. I think my idea that the whole issue of tips and tipping is more of a Client based concern than one for the majority of PH's/Guides/Outfitters, JMO. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I am afraid any mention of it is wrong. It is like opening your palm and expecting something. You might not get any, but you do expect it. Some outfitters would post "Dip, pack and tips are not included" This has even a stronger suggestion that it is expected. I just hope the hunting industry does not go the same way as the restaurants have gone. From expecting a tip, to adding it and making it compulsory. "5% tax and 15% service charge will be added to the final price" On two occasions, both at a 5-star hotel, I have deducted the 15% services charge from the bill, and added a note to the bill why I am not prepared to pay for service that was non-existence. On one occasion, the manager came over to discuss it, and actually had the stupidity to state that "service charge is required by the management". I told him then the management better employ a manager who is capable of providing this service. Because if I was the "management" he would be cleaning the floors, not managing the restaurant. And if he still wanted me to pay the service charge, he better call the hotel manager and I will be happy to discuss it with him. It ended right there and then. Tips have become the norm for any services given, and I certainly do not mind showing my appreciation for a job well done in a timely manner. But, I have heard it here where someone mentions that camp staff "get most of their pay from tips". This is decidedly wrong. Their employer should pay them a decent wage, and tell them a tip is only coming if the client is happy with their service. | |||
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Well, I agree with Saeed regarding compulsory restaurant tipping and generally react the same way; I think, however, that when employing a ph's service along with the attendant staff, then, you should expect to pay some sort of tip based upon what level of service you received. I don't care if the outfitter states in his chart of charges that tips are excluded, since if they were included, we would be back to the restaurant situation; and I cannot think of two more disparate activities. | |||
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I guess what I was getting at or trying to say, and probably not in the best phrasing, is that I personally, am uncomfortable with a client asking me how much he/she should tip me or whoever is there helping me, whether guiding or cooking. Maybe mentioning it on my web site is wrong to some people, but I have to look at it the way I feel about the issue. Again, I think the whole tipping issue in the hunting/fishing business, is one that is more of a concern and an issue with the clients, than it is with the Guides/Outfitters/Ph's. I have told several young guys to not even go into the business as a guide, because they were convinced they would make a living off of the tips. Clients cause a lot of that BS, because many times, a client has a good trip and takes an exceptional animal or catches a really good fish, and the next thing that happens, the Guide/PH/Outfitter or someone involved is standing there with a couple of hundred dollars in their hand trying to not get embarrassed. Do I lose business by having tips/gratuities mentioned in my information, possibly. Does it save me the trouble of having to explain that if the hunter wants to give something, it is Their business and if they don't want to give anything, that is fine also, the service is going to be the same either way. Just as has been brought up in some of the other active threads, each situation and each client is different. I can not remember if I saw this on AR or not, but somewhere I saw an article or thread about tipping, and a peron claimed, that when he would get into a hunting camp, he would take his guide off to the side and hand him 1/2 of a $100.00 bill, and tell the guide at that point, mind you, this is before the hunt, that if he is satisfied with the hunt, the guide will get the other half of the hundred. I think there is room for change on both sides, clients and the professionals. I do agree that tipping is not something that should be expected in the hunting/fishing arena, but all too often is. JMO. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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In Africa, some PH are more than happy to tell you how much to tip the staff if you ask them. And I have found that they are relatively very conservative about it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with suggesting a tip when asked. | |||
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Occasionally I am asked, and my normal response is whatever you want to give, it is up to you. Since I have never been to Africa to hunt, and only twice to Canada, and have never actually been around any Non-American hunters in a camp, I believe and this is just my opinion, that the whole issue of tipping is something Americans got started. I like tips when I get them and in some cases after my hunts are over and I am figuring my income, tips have added a few dollars to it. Tipping is one of those issues that constantly makes the rounds of all the forums, and the concensus usually seems to be the same. 1. Tips are appreciated by those that receive them. 2. They should not be expected or mandatory, even though some feel that they are. 3. There is no "Set Standard" as to who to tip or how much or when. 4. They should be included in the price of the hunt or the hunt price and the wages to all the staff should be such that tips are not part of the equation. 5. Guides/Outfitters/Ph's would rather receive money or alcohol as a tip, not another knife. In my opinion, bottom line for any guide/outfitter/PH, should be that tips from clients are for services provided and the whole hunt experience, not just for driving someone to a stand and then going back to camp until time to come pick the client up. Also, the Professional nor any of the staff, should ever base their efforts for a client based on the possible size of a tip. I have had people that could more than afford a tip not give one, and had people that I know that could not really afford to, give what I considered a decent tip. My favorites are the ones that really can't afford a large tip and they hand you a few dollars anyway. They all get the same level of service, it boils down to me to client preference, and because clients are individuals, I would just as soon that things stay the way they are, if a client wants to give a tip fine, if they don't fine. Either way the same level of service needs to be provided at all times to all clients and tips should be looked upon as the dessert, not the main course. Lastly, and again this is just my opinion, but to try and base tipping in a hunting camp or on a Safari, by how a person would tip wait staff at a club/bar/restaraunt during a night on the town is pure  in its most smelliest form.Hope some of that made sense. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I always tip as I see fit based on the level of service, and possibly my mood at the time. My opinon is that a "standard" 10% of the daily fees would be on the high side if the PH is not spending his time actually with the hunter. If animal recovery turns out to be a long involved process due to some bad shooting then that would need to be taken into consideration in the amount of the tip, IMO. The original question was just asking for opinions and I appreciate all the responses. -------------------------------------------- National Rifle Association - Life Member National Wild Turkey Federation - Diamond Life Sponsor Pope & Young Club - Associate Member | |||
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  DuggaBoye-O NRA-Life Whittington-Life TSRA-Life DRSS DSC HSC SCI | |||
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To address the original question if the guy is just dropping you off and loading the dead aniamls but doing a good job I'd tip him but only a fraction of what I would tip a good PH that spent all day with me. Slightly off topic but to hunt alone in a blind on a first safari or for species you are not familiar with is a recipe for a shit safari with substandard and immature trophies. I don't think tipping should be considered a supplement to salaries nor figured on a percentage of bill basis. A tip as others have said is a gift for service that you personally find not just adequate but more than adequate. When I place an ad for a hunt I mention gratuities in the extras. Including it with the extras not only let's people know that tipping is customary but allows people to figure it in their budget. I deal with a lot of people that need to figure every possible cost long before they ever leave on safari. Knowing that a tip is customary and having an idea of what a is good tip is very much appreciated by these folks. I also make it very clear to my clients that a tip is NOT a necessity! Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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The same law in Namibia; all bowhunters have to be in the company of a qualified and registered bowhunting guide at all times in the bush and blind. Would any rifle hunter go into the bush or blind without his PH? Why should the rules be any different for bowhunters?? Agree fully with Wendell "A tip is a gift for good, or exceptional service" All the best Roger VIERANAS Bow & Hunting Adventure Safaris Namibia #TPH00157 Roger@vieranasbowhunt.com www.vieranasbowhunt.com http://www.facebook.com/Vieranas.Safaris.Namibia "The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport" Saxton Pope | |||
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As far as I am aware the law requiring the presence of a PH in the field (bowhunting or otherwise)pretty much extends to most African countries. In Tanzania the client will also have the Game Officer on tow if he leaves the camp perimeter. | |||
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I wouldn't think it should make a whit of difference whether the PH is actually in the blind with you at the time of kill or not. I budget somewhere in the 10-15% range of total safari cost for all gratuities combined and I would do the same thing were I in your situation. The PH scouts the area, builds the blind and puts you in position to make the kill, then comes to dress the beast, haul it to camp and preserve the trophy -- the same as if he was with you when you drew the bow. Lots of folks kibitz about the convention of tipping, but like it or not it's one of the mechanisms the PH counts on to make his usually meager living. I think that it's a better idea to look for reasons to increase the size of of the gratuity, rather than the reverse. In the final analysis, it's a relatively small part of the total cost of going on safari, but for the PH, it's his livlihood. Just my view, I know that it's not unanimous. When you get bored with life, start hunting dangerous game with a handgun. | |||
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I judge my tipping purely on performance. One of my PH's did an unbellievable job finding a Gemsbok that I made a less than perfect hit on-without trackers. I left him my bow at the end of the trip cause that's what he wanted. I also left him with an extra $100 - it was worth it to me. I have had trips here in the states that I didn't leave a dime-use your own best judgement. Trophies are not dead animals...they are living memories. | |||
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TWI and DIE OU JAGTER I do not know who you hunt or have hunted with in South Africa but judging by your comments I suggest you guys find someone new to take you around. Remember you get what you pay for. | |||
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