Most of the time they seem to live a long time after they shot with a Muzzle Loaders, pistols, bows and 45-70s etc.

However you always have a PH to back up a charge...so most get away with it..

I would think an 8 bore would be a good choice, and a 4 bore would suit me better..I have shot one of those and they are pretty powerfull on my end...

Shockey shot 3 cape buff in Tanzania (2003) with a Knight 52 cal Disc Extreme. Ballistics marginally less impressive than a 45/70. I've got the video, and it was on his show on the US version of OLN (which I can't get). The only problem he had was getting the camerawoman to get the whole sequence on tape!

My only question is if it is even legal to use a muzzleloader on DG in Tanz?

Canuck

There is a fellow in Colorado who makes 8 bore muzzle loaders. He can set up the twist for conicals instead of round balls, since penetration of round balls is piss poor. A .72 is just a 12 gauge and is a pipsqueak for buffalo.

Dr. Duc

I hunted cape buffalo with Mike McMichael , president of Powerbelt Bullets in 2001 . He also took a whole heap of plainsgame - all one shot kills . ( The buffalo couldn't even make 30 yards .
He used a Pedroselli .50 cal double ( 525gn Powerbelt bullet at 1400fps ). We are talking about an elephant for next year and he will probably use the same gun .
Drop Mike a line at Powerbelt in Idaho - he is a really nice guy , and extremely knowledgable .

Best wishes .

Brad

Stunt stuff. There is little chance of things going wrong, as if that would ever show up on video tape.

This kind of stuff is disrespectful of the safety of the PH, trackers, etc. Shall anyone extend condolensces to family and friends if shit happens?

We had clients hunting successfully buffalo with black powder guns in 50 calibre, the only difference is not to aim for the shoulder bone, hold just behind it, the best shot is on quartering away buff for the heart. Shooting distance should no except 60 meters some use hard cast other jacketed bullets on both muzzleloaders and breach loaders.

Thanks Fellas!

I was aware of the Kodiak Double but didn't know what the bore was (and I really thought it was a 45-70). All this sounds like good advice to me.

Personally when I go for buff it's going to be with nothing less than a 375!

The only black powder firearm that I would consider using on Cape buffalo would be mounted on a gun carriage and fire a 6 pound ball!

There are 2 kodiak doubles the cart. gun and the front stuffer.
Dean

Seen a guy out here two years running who makes 10 guage and 8 guage rifles to order, Name of Geffrog or similar ( have card in town and will look it up if someone really wants to know and sends me a PM) He has hunted buff with his 8 bores both trips and I was very imressed with them. I have a Hollis and Son 8 bore which is very similar to what he makes. An 1750grn bullet at 1400fps (or there abouts) makes a very solid argument for buff. Would do it, but not for a first time and would carry a decent handgun as back up if hunting alone (such as on a zambezi valley hunt) reminder also that the Greener 6 bore rifle is still up for grabs if anybody really wants a king sized double Bp cartridge gun.

Tell the guy if he is serious to forget the stunts, respect the game and the people around him to get an 8 bore double cartridge rifle or a 6 bore if he wants to lug it.

On the other hand if he goes to the Zim Valley alone with a pipsquek maybe the world will have one less fool!

Dr Duc,
I don't think I would use any of the suggested 4-8 bore rifles myself. Finding one, shooting one, may be more trouble that it's worth and quite expensive to boot. Might be fun however.

Among the off the rack, commercially available rifles, there is only one that I can think of that I would use. A Pedersoli Gibbs .45. This rifle is styled as an English sporting rifle. It is built to shoot 550+ gr bullets behind charges of 100+ gr of good powder. This rifle is marked to 1000 yd shooting and may therefore need some sights changed. Swiss 1.5 fg being the most popular and probably best for the job. It will weigh about 12# and be manageble with regard to recoil, it will carry and handle well.

For bullets, I would, of course, opt to paper patched slugs. Probably of somewhat hardened lead but not harder than 16:1 lead:tin.

Such a rifle is a bit better than a 450 bpe - or at least, it can be since it has essentially unlimited powder capacity (and a 34" barrel to burn it in), and can shoot heavier slugs that most bpe rifles were regulated with. 650-700 gr bullets are certainly possible if you wish.

Good luck.
Brent

Anyone notice the guys from Africa dont seem as set against using a bp rifle than the hunters from the US.
Dean

The Pedersoli Safari Express rifle that comes in .72 can also be ordered with 10ga barrels, but I doubt you would gain anything from using a smoothbore albeit with a heavier ball.

My very amateur 2 c this company makes 8 and 4 bore muzzle loading rifles:
http://www.octobercountry.com/index.php
Good hunting!

Getting blackpowder (or any loose powder that is identical to what we use here) into Africa is tough. I've been there... I need to arrange this better next time I go to Africa. I talked to Jim Shockey about this and he has certainly got his ducks lined up for the next several years of hunting.

That being said, if you are not set on black powder, but more so a muzzle loader, then look at the Savage smokeless. I have one (.50 cal) and it will put 300 grain .45 cal Hornady Sptizers at close to 2400 FPS. No shit. Groups like a centerfire too and no fouling. Just keep shooting without cleaning. Now i just wish they would start making pelletized smokeless powder for it like they do with pyrodex. Then I could use Hornady's Lock n' Load sabots. Them things rock! HK makes a rifle that uses caseless ammo with smokeless powder so it's only a matter of time...

DR.DUC, If you would like I can dig thru my Black Powder Hunting mag's and try to get you some articles on that type of hunting, or better yet just contact them for info, there is one gentleman in there that has taken the big 5 with black powder, and has written several articles

DR. Duc

4 Bore






Cheers,

Andr�

Dr.Duc: Champlin Firearms in Enid, Oklahoma used to make custom guns for those who could afford it and they may still. I used to stop by there to look at their collection of double rifles (it is truely an amazing place) and one time they were making a 4 bore rifle for a client and I got to look at it...it was still in the white. That was an amazing gun to look at. It was a single shot gun and I think it was designed to shoot 900 grain lead projectiles (maybe even a round ball). The projecile may have been bigger than 900 gr...Ray may be able to shed light on the size of the projectile. The barrel looked very short. This was a cartridge gun and they were making the brass cartridges (those were amazing too)....the gunsmith told me it was suitable as a stopping gun for anything in Africa and he said the 4 bore has a history of knocking people down and giving them a concussion when properly shot! Anyway, Champlin Firearms may be able to find or make a 4 bore for your friend. Champlin Firearms is a place that everyone should try and visit if they like double rifles.

Champliln does make a 4 bore.

I saw several receivers and barrel which had been blued but without wood when I was there 2-3 years ago.

I think it was copied from an historic 4 bore they had in the vault room.

It looked alot like an old M79 40mm grenade launcher to me.

And their gunsmith, who is from Belgium as I recall, could fit you for it.

Andy

Hunting DG with BP is a stunt and insulting to the animal? C'mon, give me a break. If anything it makes you more concentrated on making a good first shot so there is no need for a follow-up. How is that insulting? Besides, I'd wager the thousands of DG critters that were shot with black powder before smokeless was even around would argue otherwise. Further back than that one could argue similarly for bows, arrow, spears, etc..... The risks are likely higher, yes, but people who want to approach from an angle something other than the norm know (or should know) the risks and come to terms with them.

I'm growing weary of the all-knowing "experts" that say anything other than the penis compensators some use and promote here are useless. Flame away at me if you will for saying the above, but there is more than one way to skin a cat and that is all we're talking about here.

K

Amen , Kernel
Each to his own