Don Causey described how his PH was trying to turn the clock backwards and hunt bongo without dogs.

I had remembered reading Capstick's disgust for hunting bongo with dogs and found the story yesterday on page 70 of Death in a Lonely Land.Capstick is at a cocktail party and gets into an arguement stating "I said I didn't think awfully much of assassination and equated the use of dogs on jaguar with their use on bongo in Africa; it simply wasn't done,old boy,at least not by gentlemen and sportsmen".

My question is when and why did the use of dogs on bongo become the accepted practice? Was the success rate so low by tracking that only the super-elite hunters like Elgin Gates,Klineberger, McElroy etc. would even try?I was just curious what brought the change. Maybe it is just the evolution of safari hunting like the 7 day plainsgame package.

I would be interested in your comments, especially those who were around when tracking bongo was the only accepted method.

Kathi

As far as I know Rudy Lubin has offered a no dog bongo hunt for some time. In fact Boddington killed a bongo that way with him.

It would seem that this definitely is the hard way to do it since the old accounts I have read of hunting bongo talk of many long days of tracking without even seeing a bongo.

When I do this hunt it definitely will be with the dog. The dogs only actually bring the bongo to bay. You still have to do all the tracking but the bongo doesn't slip away so easily.

Regards,

Mark

quote:

The dogs only actually bring the bongo to bay. You still have to do all the tracking but the bongo doesn't slip away so easily.

This is my understanding too, that when suitable tracks are found (male tracks, not with a female preferably), the bongo is tracked and the dogs are not released until the bongo is in close proximity. The dogs occupy the bongo so that a clean shot can be made. In any case, it seems as the hunter you are not too active in the tracking, basically following the pygmies, but just getting through the jungle is challenge enough. This, and a forest elephant, are my dream hunts...

I'm going Bongo hunting in three weeks. I was suppose to be in Hawaii on vacation but this came up. Such a hard decision! I'll give my thoughts on return. I'll bet Mike Lindsay could comment on this. He knows the jungle.........

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:

When I do this hunt it definitely will be with the dog. The dogs only actually bring the bongo to bay. You still have to do all the tracking but the bongo doesn't slip away so easily.

Regards,

Mark

I'm sorry, but this has about as much appeal to me as having one of the van Heerdens as my PH or having to share a hunting camp with Carmello. Not sure you could pay me enough, much less the astronimical prices paid to "hunt" these animals.

Hear hear bwanahile...in my opinion this ranks right up there with canned lions and such...come to think of it if you really want dogs to "bring the animal to bay" there are probably a few "licensed" Zim hunters that will - for a small fee - take you out onto an unnamed piece of land and bring a few animals to bay for you there too...you will have to be quick though so you get a few shots in before the spears start to fly...come to think of it...maybe we could set up a commission - pass a vote and get radio transmitter chips into all the big marlin that are caught each year...that way - you still have to present the bait in the right way...set the hook properly...it just takes out all the hours of dragging bait over "unknown" waters??

Tigerfish, nice to see a new Swedish member here on AR!

I certainly don't want to start an argument over bongo hunting, since I know nothing about it, but this discussion makes me curious.

What would you say is the difference between hunting bongo with a baying dog and hunting moose with a baying dog? I think most Swedish moose-hunters agree that crawling in on a bayed moose is a helluva thrill. But of course the alternative is not to track the moose the African way...

Just interested in your opinions!

Regards,
Martin

Hey Marterius,
Altho I find myself in Sweden - I must hasten to point out that I am not Swedish - I am proud to be a dyed in the wool African - Zimbabwean to be more precise...
Yes hunting moose, pigs and deer with dogs is pretty common and definitely the predominant style of hunting here in Scandewegia - and while it is exciting I must admit that it has never really lit my fire the same way that free hunting in Africa does...stalk and shoot. For me the best part of the year here is from mid August to November when you can really get out and hunt deer without the dogs. I hunt much of the time without a dog if possible, but at the same time I do have a tax that loves to hunt as well - so I do let her hunt as often as possible - although I will point out that I only shoot animals in front of her that in my opinion are past maturity and should be harvested. You do have a very good point and one to which I have no real answer - other than that I have read enough about Bongo hunting to figure that while it may not be easy... it is possible to hunt them without dogs, and is a style of hunting that I strongly feel should be preserved as far as possible - expecially in light of the very limited numbers of bongo available each year - the habitat that they live in and the increasing threats imposed on wild populations in the countries that they occur by habitat destruction and poaching.

Apart from the obvious problems with arguing a tradition that has been upheld for who knows how long in the nordic lands and given the fact that Moose/Deer and Pig hunting is to a much larger extent - also a form of animal control over here I would go so far as to say that to try and stop this style of hunting in these lands would be more or less impossible - and could also sever the fantastic bond that many hunters have with their dog/s(in itself a fantastic thing). Personally - I have not yet shot a moose. I am holding out for the day when I have found my moose, fair and square, using the skills that I have learned in the years that I have been hunting. I have been cussed properly by fellow Swedish hunters for not shooting a moose that I had an open shot at - being chased by a dog, but while I am in no hurry to shoot my first moose - I am determined to make the first one a good one. Maybe there will only be one?? Maybe not even that?? For me the thrill is enough just to have contact with a wild animal...whether it has been brought to me by a dog or by pure chance...but the real thrill in hunting an animal is the hunt - without that I am just as happy to sit at the range with a target at 150-300 yrds and test my skill as a shottist.

But hey...whatever lights your fire...

Tigerfish,
Thank you very much for your answer, and I salute your attitude to hunting. I fully understands your point, it was merely your comparison with canned lions that made me rise an eyebrow. I agree about the fantastic thing about the bond between man and dog, as I am into birddogs myself, but a roedeer I much rather stalk than hunt with a dog.

As you have probably noted, a lot of Swedish moose-hunters are more interested in the meat than in the hunt. Had you hunted with that kind of people, they would not only had cussed you but thrown you into a lake, so you seems to have met a decent sort of Swedes.

Where in Sweden are you located?

As to the bongo, I understand your opinion that since they are rare and under a threat the old form of hunting them should be preserved [added later for clarity:], even if I am not the knowledge to to have an opinion on bongo-hunting myself.

Regards,
Martin

Well this topic brings up many questions. Modern bongo hunts take advantage of the selective logging that has taken place in the rain forest and the pygmies association with their dogs. All of southeastern Cameroon has been selectively cut and is criss-crossed with wide logging roads. During a rain the bongo will come out on the roads, prior to logging they would move into salines. Salines are open areas in the forest usually with a little waterhole and short grass. Just after daylight the hunting party leaves the camp and drives the roads looking for fresh tracks. You want to find a large single track. Following a troupe of bongo and trying to take the male in the group is very hard. After finding a fresh,single, large track then off you go. The dogs are kept on a leash and the pygmies are tracking. I have been on 17 bayings of bongo and it has been as short as 30 minutes to 8 hours. When you get close to the bongo the dogs become anxious on the leash and you release the dogs. The aggressiveness of the bongo causes him to stay and fight, according to my friend Geoffroy deGentille 80% of the time. I would agree with that estimate, I have had several bongo stand for a couple of minutes then run. The fight can be 100 yards or 400 yards away. You try and get there as fast as you can because the bongo will start killing dogs in short order. You run up and try to identify the animal and take it if it is a trophy male.

Let me assure you that the bongo could easily run from the dogs. We usually use 5 dogs and they are small and could not hold the bongo at all. Without the dogs the hunter has to track and get into position to identify the animal. The great majority of hunters would not be able to ever take a bongo without the dogs. Hell most of the hunters have a hard time even with the dogs. All I will say is that the forest is not for everyone and many people have a very hard time there even with a ph and the pygmies help

Mike

I did forget something. Another way to take a bongo is build a machan at one of the salines and sit and wait. I have built several and I am sure if you sit long enough you could be successful.

I have a hard time just sitting in the forest.

Mike

Perhaps this is another one of those threads where the "holier than thou" types come out of the woodwork to bash any kind of hunting that doesn't meet their high standards. My suggestion to you is that if you don't like hunting with dogs, don't do it. There are those of us who like to hunt birds using a pointing or flushing dog. I see little difference between having a dog locate a bird for you and using a dog to hunt mountain lions, raccoons, foxes, bongo, or any other animal for that matter so long as it is legal in the jurisdiction in which the hunt takes place. The anti hunting community loves it when some of us side with them against certain types of legal hunting. Think about that when you go off on one of those high horse tangents about how "unsporting" a particular type of hunt is.

MLindsay - Thanks for your explanation - I envy you having had the opportunity to spend so much time in the jungles of Cameroon! I have not been there myself, but hope to hunt there in the coming years. Reading what I have been able to find it almost seems like its more trouble than its worth?? But then again...you can never know until you have tried.
How long is the typical hunt if one would like to attempt hunting bongo in Cameroon?
Marterius - mellansverige...nowhere special.
patrkyhntr...I like my high horse.

quote:

Originally posted by patrkyhntr:
Perhaps this is another one of those threads where the "holier than thou" types come out of the woodwork to bash any kind of hunting that doesn't meet their high standards. My suggestion to you is that if you don't like hunting with dogs, don't do it. There are those of us who like to hunt birds using a pointing or flushing dog. I see little difference between having a dog locate a bird for you and using a dog to hunt mountain lions, raccoons, foxes, bongo, or any other animal for that matter so long as it is legal in the jurisdiction in which the hunt takes place. The anti hunting community loves it when some of us side with them against certain types of legal hunting. Think about that when you go off on one of those high horse tangents about how "unsporting" a particular type of hunt is.

I am certainly not one of the "holier than thous" nor was my post to intimate that this type of hunting was unethical, simply very unappealing to me.

I have not hunted bongo, but will when I can. I would use dogs, much like we use dogs on quail, pheasants, grouse and mountain lions.

I don't understand why that is an issue. The early day Indians (in America) and the locals in Africa used dogs whenever possible. THe American version of Indians chased buffalo off cliffs whenever possible, started fires to hunt, etc.

We hunt deer with dogs in some states.

To each his own. If you don't want to use dogs on bongo, go on foot with the trackers.

If the argument is over "method", let me offer that leopard or lion hunting over bait is to me, like hunting whitetail deer or hogs over an electronic feeder on the King Ranch in Texas. I am not going to criticize it until I have done it. For deer and hogs, I don't like stand/baited hunting. Not to my liking, but I have no issue if Joe wants to do it.

Now, I have seen the videos on leopards over bait and understand that is a totally different- hanging the baits, building the blind, dragging the baits. Seems ok to me, but I am not sure. I will try it in a couple of years, but may wait until I am as old as Ray and can't get around as well.

All of that said - to each his own. I would use dogs.

Hunting with dogs is the oldest sport in the world, and apparantly many of you are comenting on something you know absolutly nothing about..

You have not had to run two or three miles keeping up with dogs, and then had the prey break and run another mile or so, and this can go on for days and may never conclude in a successful hunt...It may be the most phyically challanging hunt in the world, be it Mt. Lion, Bongo, Bear or whatever, but Bongo in that hot humid jungle climate, running in mud and muck, it no cake walk I assure you...So skip the assumptions and until you tried it.

I PREFER hunting with dogs whenever possible. If I decide to get off the mountains and start hunting Africa and go for a Bongo, then it will be with dogs. IF you don't like it, don't do it. Do you want me and all the others to tell you (anti-dog hunters) how much we dislike your hunting or living methods? I can assure you, there are things in your life I can complain about. but I have always left other alone and asked that they afford me the same courtesy.

Right now I am still trying to figure out how to kill a sheep or goat with Walkers!

Amen, Brother Ray! Another one of those "though I have not done it, don't want to do it and really never plan on doing it" I will comment on it and call others who would do it names! Bullshit.

I would love to hunt bongo in the CAR or Cameroon (also in the Aberdares Highlands of Kenya, if not illegal). If I dropped $30K to hunt Bongo and hunting with dogs is legal and increases my odds, you bet I would! It still doesn't mean you WILL be successful, that is why they call it hunting...dogs whether cat or bear hunting never guarantee succes, but I wouldn't like the odds of hunting mountain lion without them! And to say it is not physical is to show your ignorance.

Don't forget - you can always come to Texas and shoot one in a mesquite and live oak grove, and be home in time for dinner. (no dogs required)

I doubt I will ever hunt Bongo, but when I was a kid, I ran coons and bobcats with my Grandad's hounds every Saturday night and school holiday (and also have been known to skip school a few times to coon hunt). At that time I did not think there was any other way to hunt. And I do not know who enjoyed it more me or the hounds.

Any man who feeds and waters a pack of hounds and hunts with them is friend mine.

Luego...Frank

As Ray stated, It is certain that dogs have been used for thousands of years and I'm sure the pygmies are no exception. I'm not opposed to
using dogs. I grew up using dogs for bird hunting and have very fond memories of our labs and the bond developed between us.

Many of us have killed my Mtn Lion and Bears with dogs. The list goes on. It has been said that a hunt in the jungle for Bongo, Buffalo, elephant, Sitatunga etc......has similar extremes to the trial of hunting Polar bear in the Arctic. another place where the Inuit's have used dogs for over 4000 years. My Dad hunted Bongo in the Congo close to 40 years ago and for me it has been a distant dream that was never realistic until now and it happened very fast. We get to go because of someone else's misfortune (cancellation) and I am very fortunate and will share it with all on return. Thank you MLindsay for all your help and advice!

I have never hunted bongo, but they are beautiful and rare, as well as elusive and difficult, and I might do it some day if ever I should live that long and discover some day that I don't want to hunt anything else more than I want to hunt bongo.

And hunting them with dogs as described by MLindsay seems plenty and more than sporting enough to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanahile:

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:

When I do this hunt it definitely will be with the dog. The dogs only actually bring the bongo to bay. You still have to do all the tracking but the bongo doesn't slip away so easily.

Regards,

Mark

I'm sorry, but this has about as much appeal to me as having one of the van Heerdens as my PH or having to share a hunting camp with Carmello. Not sure you could pay me enough, much less the astronimical prices paid to "hunt" these animals.

Five star post! *****

I have no personal condemnation for someone who uses dogs. But the rest of your post is fabulous!