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The original thread Who Is Responsible has finally spurred me to ask a question that has been bothering me for a while. So as not to divert the original discussion, I figured a new thread was the way to go. I was in the camp of a what I consider to be a first class operator when another hunter came in with a tale of woe. The hunter and a contract PH were looking at a variety of hartebeeste the hunter had never seen before. PH says "That one is a good bull. Shoot him". Hunter takes the shot and the animal indicated by the PH falls over dead. They walk up and the animal turns out not to be a "good bull" but a pregnant female. Who pays in this instance? Dean ...I say that hunters go into Paradise when they die, and live in this world more joyfully than any other men. -Edward, Duke of York | ||
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I don't know, but I'd imagine more instances than not the game scout is the one getting paid.......... Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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I had a similar incident about 15 yrs ago. no fees were paid except for the game scout - and that by the ph | |||
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PH is responsible, IMO. You can borrow money, but you can't borrow time. Don't wait, go now. Savannah Safaris Namibia Otjitambi Trails & Safaris DRSS NRA SCI DSC TSRA TMPA | |||
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I think it would become a ration animal. ...I say that hunters go into Paradise when they die, and live in this world more joyfully than any other men. -Edward, duke of York ". . . when a man has shot an elephant his life is full." ~John Alfred Jordan "The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance." Cicero - 55 BC "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand Cogito ergo venor- KPete “It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages.” ― Adam Smith - “Wealth of Nations” | |||
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the ph is responsible and that comes off your quota if you are in a government area , if on a private reserve or concession then it will be up to the landowner if he will allow a second one to be taken ... the discussion between client and ph is where the decision is made about who pays ... "The greatest threat to our wildlife is the thought that someone else will save it” www.facebook.com/ivancartersafrica www.ivancarterwca.org www.ivancarter.com ivan@ivancarter.com | |||
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Happened to me also. We were hunting an animal that neither the PH or I were familiar with. I fully expected to pay but the company ate it. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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It happened to me. It was, unfortunately, with a white rhino. The PH asked what I wanted to do. I looked at the contract word for word. It did not say bull anywhere. I decided to pay. Had the word bull be in the contract, I would not have paid. As a side note, it charged us. I dropped it at about 8 feet. This was filmed on a personal camera. In the 18 years that have transpired, I have managed to lose the video. Damn I hate that. | |||
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Happened to me, we'd been tracking two bull Eland and finally caught them. PH puts up the sticks, says shoot the one on the right. About 115 yards away, with some cover between us and the Eland. I shoot the one on the right and it turns out to be a cow - upon review of the tracks the two bulls we'd been tracking stopped because they ran into the cow...My PH immediately admitted fault, apologized and that was all that was said, stuff happens. I was not charged. To me, how things get handled in a situation like this speaks volumes about the outfit you are hunting with - in my case there was never a moment of hesitation of how it would be handled. The Duckworths run a top notch outfit. | |||
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Happened to me with a Gemsbok. I was told it was a good bull and to shoot. So i dropped him and when we got to him, he turned out to be a immature bull. PH said he was free and I got a great 36" Bull Gemsbok later on that evening. | |||
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Had something similar happen to my dad - first safari, first shot, firt animal. PH guided him to a nice impala, which he killed with one shot. Upon inspection they realized that the one horn they couldn't see through the brush simply didn't exist (maybe Saeed shot it off earlier  ). PH apologized and made that impala camp meat at no charge. Dad shot another impala a couple days later._____________________ A successful man is one who earns more money than his wife can spend. | |||
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Happened to me in Namibia. I wanted a gemsbok cow to go with my bull I had killed the yr. before, P.H. says shoot the one on the left, I did, he said you shot the wrong one. I never saw the cow on the far left & ended up with another bull. I was told it would be used as a meat animal, but he was better than the one I already had, so I paid for him & he now resideds in my den. LORD, let my bullets go where my crosshairs show. Not all who wander are lost. NEVER TRUST A FART!!! Cecil Leonard | |||
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Well, this a cut and dry case really. The so called "contract PH" did not know a male from a female, and he should bloody well cough up! | |||
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Me, also. More than once. PH is responsible. If he's ethical and honest you won't be charged. But if not, and/or he does not own or control the concession then the hunter pays. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Happened to me. 30.06 was primed and ready as a small herd of wildebeest emerged from the bush at 80 yards. "There he is" hissed the PH as the first one cleared the brush line. "it's the bull." I let out a long slow breath and was tightening my finger on the Timney.... as it's calf suddenly ran up and started suckling. "oh no, it's the next one" he muttered. The next one got 220gr of Nosler Partition in the gearbox as it emerged from the bush. It also turned out to be a cow, but as it was a meat hunt I paid up (even though I had specifically told him I wanted a bull). This was many years ago, long before registering on AR. It was one incident among a myriad of others on the same hunt that almost caused me to cancel the hunt in the field. Knowing what I know now and had I been trophy hunting, the PH would have been eating plenty wildebeet along with his humble pie. JCHB | |||
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Mark, not to be disrespectful but what kind of a PH did you have that was not familar with the animal you were hunting. Was he an appy. or maybe a coca cola cowboy.  Just curious. | |||
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Had a similar thing happen with an eland, had one in sights. PH said he was coming clear of a tree, which the one I was looking at was coming clear of a tree. Took the shot and he fell. Turns out I was looking at a different one. Turns out the one I was looking at wass bigger. Caleb | |||
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Ivan Carter writes,
Saeed writes, QUOTE] Well, this a cut and dry case really. [/QUOTE] Desert Ram writes,
Mark writes,
HOWEVER, in my case where EXACTLY the same thing happened but substitute a one horned cape buffalo bull for all of the other species mentioned. I was told and in no short number by members here that it was 100% my problem doesn't matter that the PH insisted that I shoot, twice, even after I questioned him and was assured in with great confidence that it was the "right" bull, it turned out to be the wrong bull. One which I might add that I'd turned down several times previously in the day. What gives? Is this a sliding scale depending on what the species is? I'd like to hear from Ivan on this one as he has local knowledge.. | |||
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It happened to me in SA last year. We were looking at 2 impala one of which had a busted horn when they walked behind a clump of bushes. PH told me shoot him as he comes out. I got on the sticks and got ready PH said take him and I dropped him. We walk up and I see a broken horn I am seeing wasted dollar signs flash before my eyes. PH looks at me and says "he's a mulligan. We will make biltong out of him". We will come back for the other one tomorrow. We did and the other one will make SCI. What impressed me was I didn't even have to broach the subject. Later in the hunt I was hunting with another PH he employed and he would not even consider a shot because the animal would not turn so we could be positive it was a male. He was about 90 pct sure but it was not good enough for the young PH. Turns out it was a male but it was out of range by that time. DRSS Kreighoff 470 NE Valmet 412 30/06 & 9.3x74R | |||
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DOJ, What's a Coca Cola Cowboy? The PH was Neil Duckworth probably one of the best young PHs in Zimbabwe. We were hunting on their Coutada 9 area in Mozambique. There are a few red duiker there and I wanted one. They had never had a client kill one and Neil did not realize that the females have horns or sort of horns. He had me shoot it and we both at first were a little baffled until further inspection revealed it to be a female. Seemed like an innocent mistake to me and a learning experence for all. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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As Surestrike has noted, it is hard not to be struck by the inconsistency in the two current "Who is Responsible" threads. Interestingly enough, one thread contains the PH's view of the situation, and the other contains the hunter's perspective. It would be interesting to hear the opposite description for each of these two separate events. It would seem in most cases that the original poster describes the situation to favor a particular perception. And in several of these discussions on AR we get the "story" from a third party, not the PH or the hunter, who wasn't even there. It is great to hear on this thread that many PH's have stepped up when they made a mistake. Most situations have some degree of responsibility on both party's shoulder, and a professional, respectful discussion can clear up many misunderstandings. Bill | |||
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Mark, it is a line from a Mel Tillis song and I understand it to mean a "want to be". Like some say he is "all hat". | |||
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DOJ, Ah! Got it. I don't follow Country music so that would explain my ignorance. Matk MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Mark, Yopu live in Wyoming and don't listen to country music? Expect to have a guitar burned on your front lawn tonight! 465H&H | |||
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Yeah! A couple of friends actually thought I might have a hard time out here because I'm liberal on some social issues and tend to speak my mind but so far I've found a very tolerant atmosphere here in the Cowboy state. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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