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| Administrator |
May be the ZPHGA should do something about the professional hunters in that country who pay no regard to ethics?? Like the ones hunting in National Parks?? | |||
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| One of Us |
If the SA hunting community really wanted to send a very strong message to the world, they should push to remove all forms of high fenced hunting, put and take operations, game auctions, and captive bred hunting practices. That would be the alternative to what is happening there now. ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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OPUS 1 you must be joking correct?? First of all we will be then hunting illegally in most parts of this country. Second in most cases we own the land and animals I have millions invested in game should I just drop my fence and let them wonder over to my Nabors over grassed cattle farm. Guys there are fenced ranches in Namibia Zimbabwe Mozambique Zambia Botswana. All these bodies that suddenly distance them self from A legal activity starts to make me wonder what the real motives are. I love hunting in big open areas and spend 60 to 80 days A year doing just that but it is simply not possible in Countries like RSA and Namibia. And Namibia should quickly jump of there high Horse there system is very much the same as over IN RSA... Phillip du Plessis www.intrepidsafaris.com info@intrepidsafaris.co.za +27 83 633 5197 US cell 817 793 5168 | |||
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And Phillip you very well explained the other point of view in regards to captive bred lion operations. They also have millions invested in stock and they also need to contain them to avoid their animals from wandering all over the place. Seems one practice of purchasing animals at market, containing them behind a high fence, and tending to and growing the captive stock for the exclusive purpose of commercial hunting/shooting is acceptable and the other practice is somehow unethical and should be banned. Personally, I am not for any form of high fenced hunting but as I have said before, it's suicidal to begin throwing that or any other form of legal hunting under the bus. The anits do not care what is considered legal, ethical or questionable - they simply want to end any and all forms of hunting. So pretty silly to help them with their mission... ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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The stupidity of it all is we seem to turn a blind eye to farmers breeding any other animal, except lions. Why?? South Africans have spent years and millions of their own money on breeding rhinos and lions, and we should all be grateful for it. So why are they not allowed to have them hunted?? Opus is absolutely right. If ethics have suddenly started tickling your rear ends, stop all captive bred hunting!  | |||
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Zimbabwe Professional Hunters and Guides Association(ZPHGA) Mukuvisi Woodlands Hillside Rd/Glenara Ave South Harare Open letter to the President, EXCO and Members of PHASA: On behalf of Zimbabwe Professional Hunters and Guides Association (ZPHGA), we would like to thank you for the recognition and gratitude voiced by your Executive Committee representative on behalf of PHASA, for the collaboration between ourselves during the two incidences of the loss of life of your members and friends during the year 2017. Further we would like to thank your Executive Committee representative for taking the time to attend our 2017 AGM and explaining to our members the complexity of various issues faced by PHASA and the recent events surrounding the proposed changes to the PHASA Constitution and vision of these changes. ZPHGA is unique in Africa in the fact that we embrace a holistic approach to our efforts in managing our wildlife and environment through both sectors of consumptive and non- consumptive, as we comprise professional hunters and professional guides. In response to the facts laid out by Mr. York, the Executive Committee of ZPHGA have been tasked by the member ship, to formally respond as follows:- - ZPHGA acknowledges that the majority of PHASA members in a poll had voted in favour of effectively continuing CBLH. - ZPHGA acknowledges the 2017 Resolution made by PHASA: “PHASA accepts the responsible hunting of ranched lions on SAPA accredited hunting ranches with the relevant legal framework and/or according to recommendations of the applicable hunting association, such as SCI’s fair chase standards” - ZPHGA acknowledges that the wildlife management model in South Africa is vastly different to its neighbours’ and is based on wildlife ownership by the landowners and a game ranching model. - ZPHGA acknowledges that the PHASA constitution is to be changed to be in line with the laws of the country and not by any superior law or recommendations as far as wildlife ownership goes - ZPHGA acknowledges that CBLH continued in 2015, 2016 and 2017 - ZPHGA acknowledges that PHASA follows the regulations of TOPS Although ZPHGA finds the decision to only be guided by laws and regulations of the country and reported economics of CBLH and not by the will of the (hunting) world, as puzzling, ZPHGA respects the sovereignty of each country and that PHASA is a democratic association run by its members, and to date the recognised voice of South Africa’s hunting industry. Having said that, PHASA has to realise the consequences of its actions and respect the decision now made by ZPHGA, as one of Zimbabwe’s prominent wildlife and environment voices. Zimbabwe has, first-hand, experienced the implications of world perception and influence after the infamous Cecil incident - and realised how our actions have ramifications stretching from Zimbabwe to Alaska. Zimbabwe has at the 2015, 2016 and 2017 PHASA AGMs, pleaded with the members of PHASA to discontinue the practice of CBLH as it would bring the “Professional Hunting” fraternity into dispute, as the practice can no longer be tolerated by fellow African Professional hunting organisations and the world and will never be perceived as fair chase. The impression of PHASA that CBLH will be accepted by fellow Professional Hunting Organisations and the general public is, without question wrong, according to our members (Unanimous vote). Having guidelines in PHASA’s constitution on how to proceed and having to be SAPA (South African Predators Association) accredited properties and to follow the TOPS regulations, is simply a way of justifying it to yourselves and hoodwinking the naive into believing that the practice of CBLH can in its proposed form be considered fair chase, sustainable and a conservation tool, even though these regulations do not comply with current SCI recommendations or are not in line with fair chase in the rest of Africa. The reality remains that unlike other wildlife ‘ranched’ in SA, proposed lion territories and ranges are not natural in size and conditions, in recommended CBLH environments in SA. In our opinion, it therefore should be recognised for what it is - Lion Production - not Lion Ranching, certainly not Lion hunting and unequivocally not fair chase. Herein lies the problem, Zimbabwe has been faced with a number of challenges in our efforts to protect sustainable and ethical professional hunting. Challenges that we have embraced and are overcoming in our effort to grow with changes in global wildlife management policies while maintaining and protecting professional fair chase hunting - as the foundation for protecting our marginal and isolated ecosystems and wildlife from human encroachment. The decision to continue with CBLH made by PHASA at the 2017 AGM undermines the efforts made by Zimbabwe, and other countries, in branding Professional Hunting as a major conservation tool. Even though Zimbabwe has had a healthy, long standing relationship with PHASA and its members, and have continuously pleaded and engaged with PHASA on this matter, it is with regret that ZPHGA can no longer consider PHASA as a “Professional Hunting” association in the future, as PHASA’s recent decisions are not in line with our ideology of what ‘professionalism’ in the hunting industry should encompass. PHASA has inadvertently divided and alienated itself from the Professional Hunting fraternity. Respecting your sovereignty, PHASA is now recognised by ZPHGA as nothing more than a hunting association of South African hunters. ZPHGA is not in the business of game breeding or game ranching and is in fact an association of passionate professional hunters and professional guides, founded to uphold the high conservational and professional standards in our respective professions for the benefit of Zimbabwe’s wildlife and environment. We therefore do not foresee ourselves having many cross cutting issues in the future of “Professional Hunting” with your association, but will continue to recognise PHASA as a “Hunting Association” in South Africa and look forward to a credible “Professional” hunting organisation being reestablished as the South African voice of Professional hunting and conservation, to join in our endeavours to change the ill-informed perception of Professional hunting. Yours Sincerely On behalf of ZPHGA’s Executive Committee and members James Rosenfels Chairman - ZPHGA ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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| Administrator |
Do I sense a bit of hypocracy here?? How many years have captive lions been hunted in South Africa? Why hasn’t a single one of those opposing it now said a word then? Ever since the “canned lion” episode, people have suddenly become very ethically minded. They seem to be totally blind to what those opposing hunting, ANY HUNTING, really want. Stop hunting one species at a time! | |||
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https://www.dailymaverick.co.z...nalist/#.WibruEqnHIV Op-Ed: Hunters and predator breeders take aim at Star journalist DON PINNOCK SOUTH AFRICA 05 DEC 2017 01:06 (SOUTH AFRICA) The South African Predator Association (SAPA) – whose members breed for hunting, among other creatures, what it terms “managed ranch lions” – has set its cross-hairs on another prey: a journalist and her newspaper. By DON PINNOCK. The Predator Association has served summons on Independent Media as publishers of The Star and a journalist, Shannon Ebrahim, following the publication of her article, Canned lion hunting damaging Brand SA. It’s claiming damages of R1,000,000. In what is clearly an attempt to muzzle criticism aimed at its members, SAPA appears to be reaching beyond the journalist to environmental NGOs and activists she quotes who campaign against cruel hunting practices. Independent and Ebrahim will defend the action and believe they have a strong case on the merits. The summons singles out the acclaimed documentary Blood Lions and specifically its lead consultant, Ian Michler, for what SAPA claims to be false statements that the hunting of “canned” lions is cruel, barbaric and macabre and that they are raised in cages to be shot by foreign thrill-seekers. SAPA seems particularly stung by what it perceives in Ebrahim’s article to be a claim that its members are involved in illegal, unethical and poaching practices and unacceptable labour practices. Also that most operators and breeders are apartheid-era reactionaries. There is a strong possibility that when Independent Newspapers defends the case, SAPA will be confronted by more than it bargained for. It is likely to be called upon to contend with claims and investigations of damning evidence from a wide range of organisations and environmentalists quoted in the Star article. Blood Lions, for a start, has visual evidence of cruelty on farms where lions are reared for the bullet. Captive lion breeding for hunting has also been condemned by the African Lion Working Group (comprising 100 registered scientists), the Endangered Wildlife Trust, Panthera, Wildlands Trust, Wild Cat Conservation Group, International Union for Conservation of Nature, the International Fund for Animal Welfare, Four Paws, Coalition Against Lion Hunting, the NSPCA and the Humane Society International. All could probably be called on to give evidence in support of Ebrahim. The quote on damage captive-bred hunting was doing to South Africa’s international image came from the then Minister of Tourism, Derek Hanekom. “I think it has already damaged Brand South Africa,” he said on camera in Blood Lions. ‘The practice of canned lion hunting or breeding in captivity comes with a lot of negativity and therefore it does and probably will do further reputational damage unless we take some more decisive measures to discourage it. “Our first step is to be in one mind as a country about whether we want this – is this something that we feel proud of as a nation? My feeling is I’m not proud of it.” Dr Andrew Venter, the CEO of Wildlands, said he would be prepared to support Ebrahim if called to. “The South African captive lion breeding and associated hunting and bone trading activities,” he said in response to the summons, “are not regarded as bone fide conservation activities by the vast majority of conservation organisations, both in South Africa and globally, including the IUCN”. “There is significant concern around the conditions under which the lions are bred, reared, hunted and slaughtered, with many conservationists and hunters finding the industry to be immoral and unethical in its behaviour and practice.” Commenting on the lawsuit, the executive director of Humane Society International, Audrey Delsink, said: “It is intended to intimidate this journalist and others who see it as their duty to expose the cruel lion breeding industry for what it truly is. Ebrahim gave accepted representations of South Africa’s captive breeding and exploitation of lions. She merely collated general opinion and consensus of this shameful industry. “SAPA should not waste the valuable time and resources of the judiciary, as well as this newspaper and journalist. This is a clear attempt to muzzle public opinion.” Support for Ebrahim and Independent also came from tourism specialist Colin Bell. “One in seven South Africans are directly dependent on the tourism industry to put food on the table. My concern about the canned lion industry is that it potentially can damage Brand South Africa in such a bad way. Why risk that for the benefit of a few individuals?” Shortly after SAPA issued the summons, it was slammed by 27 of the world’s top conservation and research organisations and individuals on another matter: a letter it wrote to the US Secretary of the Interior, Ryan Zinke, requesting the lifting of the ban by US Fish and Wildlife Services (USFWS ) on the importation of captive-bred lion trophies. In an open letter to Zinke, the lion conservation community refutes SAPA’s claim that hunting of captive bred lions presents conservation benefits to wild lions. “There is no published, peer-reviewed evidence to support this statement,” they wrote. “The hunting of captive-bred lions neither benefits biodiversity conservation nor the conservation of wild and free-ranging lions.” SAPA also claimed that if captive lion hunting was stopped, increased pressure would be placed on wild populations, but they provide no evidence whatsoever to substantiate this. “SAPA states that if USFWS does not allow for the importation of lion trophies then these lions will be euthanised. It is unclear how this outcome would differ biologically from killing them in a captive hunt, or for their bones? Either way, the lions will be killed. 4 “We wish to express that SAPA’s letter is fraught with inaccuracies, false statements and a flawed viewpoint that is shaped for the economic benefit of captive lion breeders.” DM Kathi kathi@wildtravel.net 708-425-3552 "The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only one page." | |||
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Yakity yak, always the moral issue of canned Lion hunts..What is the difference in a canned lion hunt a fenced whitetail in Texas or fenced plainsgame hunt in RSA for instance?? Lets take the silliness out of the scenario and look at some real issues, delete those that live in Ivory Towers and need a cause, any cause it seems..They would surly be picking at the beef industry if no lions existed..Most beef animals live behind a high fence. I have never shot a canned Lion, nor sold a canned Lion hunt, but I appreciate those that have, mostly because for every canned Lion that's bred behind a high fence and shot at a ripe old age, A WILD LION LIVES..and were it not for canned animals, many would be extinct today, what with the slaughter of animals in warring Africa...I can see a need for raising the wild animals, restocking with them, and hunting them..emotional lilies would let the animal kingdom eat itself out of house and home and die of desease and starvation, stupid bastards have no idea what the word mangagement means.. It just seems to me this whole thing is such a counterfeit joke, and they pick and choose who can or can't be shot behind a fence, its incredible considering all the animals in the world that are shot behind a high fence but the Lion is just different, oh my! what a bucket of crap..    Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Lot of truth and wisdom in those words. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Andrew McLaren Professional Hunter and Hunting Outfitter since 1974. http://www.mclarensafaris.com The home page to go to for custom planning of ethical and affordable hunting of plains game in South Africa! Enquire about any South African hunting directly from andrew@mclarensafaris.com After a few years of participation on forums, I have learned that: One can cure: Lack of knowledge – by instruction. Lack of skills – by practice. Lack of experience – by time doing it. One cannot cure: Stupidity – nothing helps! Anti hunting sentiments – nothing helps! Put-‘n-Take Outfitters – money rules! My very long ago ancestors needed and loved to eat meat. Today I still hunt! | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting PHASA backtracks and approves canned lion hunting
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