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Conglomerate Craig is playing to his audience. 99% of the guys going on their first buff hunt are going to use???????????? a .375 H&H. ------------------------------- Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped. “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Since when did "Really Need" have anything to do with it?  | |||
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Alf, I agree with you. I also believe that gun makers/mfrs are pushing these huge DG calibers and I for one think it is purely marketing and sales driven. Big Bore .500's sell for a lot more and the tooling mfr costs are probably not that much more. Safari Hunting is an industry and one that is seemingly becoming americanized at that. | |||
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Alf, I think you can point at the U.S.' cultural hegemony for at least some what you see. "Bigger is better" has long been the American (U.S) ethos; we want bigger homes, bigger, more powerful cars, more and bigger guns. With the small-, and medium-caliber niches well-saturated, the smarter gunmakers view big-bores as a growth market, especially since they can charge more for a .500 than they can for a .243. Your other concern about the function and reliability is well-founded; if they don't make the gun work in the circumstances for which it is designed, it's worse than useless - it's dangerous. With regard to writers for "traditionally home grown African gun magazines", I would dare to say that Americans (U.S.) comprise the largest share of hunters and buyers of these magazines. The editors probably feel that U.S.-based writers can 'connect' better with U.S.-based subscribers (they are wrong - we miss Finn Aagard a hell of a lot more than we'd miss all of the hacks writing in magazines today; can myriad "9.3x62 vs. .375H&H" and .458Win.Mag. vs. .470NE" articles be far away?). George  | |||
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quote: quote: $750 to become a member???? Wow! | |||
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Alf, In MODERATION - I like to read Americans thoughts on Africa. I know about hunting lion. I shot my first one when I was 12 and my first one alone when I was 15. In many ways I take for granted much of the knowledge that rattles round in my head. Even a first time client can teach me or remind me of things. Often things that I see everyday and wouldn't think of putting in an Article is something people need to know about. And As I have learned, Americans?Europeans see things very differently to what I do. Besides, even crotchety old fossils like Will manage to write a real interesting article occasionaly  Also, it is interesting to read on this forum the backlash when someone like Don Heath writes an article aimed at Learner PH's, for example. People howl that the advice isn't relevant to America. True but it wasn't aimed at Americans! Anyway - I'm Safe- my next two articles in the African Hunter and ASG are aimed at you lot with no hidden innuendo's or agenda's | |||
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quote: Rusty, You got it in one. I suppose the majority of people would regard the 416 Wby as the best of the three big Wbys for use on big game. My discussions with Wby also indicate that the 416 is mainly bought by people who will use it for big game and of course collectors. BUT, it is the 378 and 460 that are the sellers. BUT the 416 sells more factory ammo in relation to the number of 416s that are sold. Of course the reasons are simple. The 460 is "the worlds most powerful" and the 378 is the most powerful high velocity rifle. Guns and/or calibre enthusiasts are like car enthusiasts in that "need" and practicality are not always issues. Mike | |||
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Alf, _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
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Alf, For those of us who do more reading about hunting than actual hunting (the AR Forum is part of this addiction) magazine "fatigue" is real. I've stopped buying and reading almost all of the regularly published gun magazines because there is rarely anything new being said and the caliber debates became boring years ago. I subscribe totally to your desire to hear real reports of real in the field experience. It may be that a publication that only appears every six months, or even once a year, but that takes the time to publish relevant and provocative news and editorials written by good writers, and well edited, is what is needed. When I reread a story by Jack O'Connor or Jim Carmichael I am always impressed by their style as well as their knowledge. I don't think a monthly magazine can keep up the pace. Perhaps we have all become more knowledgeable and demanding? _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
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I agree that perhaps we are prone to go over board on calibers, big scopes and what not..I don't even have a problem with a .375 as a back up rifle if the shooter can shoot... I do feel that many Americans today have hunted as much or more than many Africans when one cuts through the BS..granted some like Ganyana have been there and back, but on the average folks like Saeed and myself have probably shot more buffalo than many of the PHs we hunt with today and thats a fact..I think that would allow us to write in your magazine. I have read some pretty good articles by Will, and Jim Dodd and a few others, surly you wouldn't deny us that, you being a Canadian!  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Guys who aren't professional writers often write better stuff of greater substance than many of the familiar magazine hacks. One of the reasons is often greater experience, which would surprise some people, but it's the truth. The other reason is that the magazine hawnyawks are always kissing someone's ass or paying back a freebee. There's always an alterior motive inserted in there someplace. A custom riflemaker hands out a free custom rifle, so that riflemaker becomes the World's Best. A safari company hands out a free safari, so that PH becomes the BEST I'VE EVER HUNTED WITH. An optics company hands out free binos and a free plainsgame hunt for a group of writers, and by gawd those binos are the best EVER. An ammo company sponsors a hunt, and man, you can bet that that ammo performed better than anything else to date! This shell game never ends. Certain high-profile writers never seem to use a rifle they don't love, and they love 'em all equally. Hand 'em a Savage 110 and they're just as happy as if you hand 'em a David Miller rifle. But I guess free is a good price no matter what, right? I prefer to read guys like O'Connor. At least he was honest enough to hunt with his preferred Al Biesen rifles, didn't apologize for it, and at least he wasn't out to make every peddler happy.......... AD | ||
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Ray has a point! We were disscusing the upcomming culls which are edging closer and every PH in the country wants a crack at it (if it happens) and I was asking some of the more experienced ele hunters how many ele they had personally shot in the last five years (not to back a client up on but shot in self defence or hunted on their own). Most less than 5... only two over 10. Craig Boddington has apparently shot 50 buff. About 20 or so hunts- thaqt means if he's sharp he has picked at least 20 PH's brains on how to hunt buff and has now shot many more than his PH on the "Boddington on Buffalo" DVD. The other anoying thing though is that the boy who really do have the experience -Paul Grobbelar, Clem Coetzee, Mike la Grange, Ken Worsley et al, either are virtually illiterate or to bussy with their new careers. Richard Harland has just written Paul Grobblers story- a must buy- and I am hoping somebody will pin clem down and do the same.- Shot 16000+ ele and pioneered the live translocations of whole herds when he got sick of shooting them. Clem tutored me on ele culling and I could never match that man's shooting skill, knowledge or "feel" | |||
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Allen, you're right of course. If Al Biesen gave me a rifle I wouldn't apologize either. Heck, I don't apologize for using Model 70s or CZs. Of the half dozen PH's I've met, not a single one had a "high end" bolt action rifle, except for Georges Billiard in Tanzania who had a left hand Heym in .416 Rigby (in 1994). He told me he would have prefered a Dakota, who knows why. I did once see a .577 Express in Tanzania but I forget the name of the PH (French) but I doubt if he ever had to shoot it. Maybe this should be the start of another thread but what rifles do you see PH's use most often? _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
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Talking about the gun rags, did anyone else get a chuckle when the short mags were all the talk, they would shoot a 180gn Nosler Partition or a Win. failesafe @ 2950 from a short mag and marvel at penetration or some other aspect of bullet performance. As if it were a new bullet design or cal. or something.I mean a bullet thats been around for a while of what ever make at a given speed performs basicly the same no mater the case used to launch it.I just thought it was comical. Sure wish the board had a spell check or I could spell better. I would'nt have to look up so many words! allen It's a Mauser thing, you wouldn't understand. | |||
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I had rather read something Alf has to say about Mauser than all the crap about which is better...30/06 or 270? Who was better...Keith or O'Conner? Alf is teaching me something. That is the same reason I subscribe to Man Magnum magazine...there is stuff in there about guns and calibers I am never going to get in Guns and Whammo! I take all of the foreign hunting and gun mags (well most anyway) and esp. those that have to do with anything African. Still I find intrusions of something to do with 45 ACP or 38 Spl or 9 m/m. I can get that in any American rag. I want more on 416 this or that, 404's , 500's, 450 31/4, 9.3 x something. Like others here ...don't tell me what you shot along with the hero photo...gimme all the details about planning, what it cost, what the goofs were, what you did good along with the normal story. In a Q&A of a bunch of Dallas Safari Club members that had all hunted griz I asked each to tell me what they took on the hunt that they did not need and vice versa. One hunter said he did not take enough paper back books. I am thinking what the hell that has to do with hunting bears. He explained how he was trapped in a 8 x 12 hut on the ice for "X" days due to high winds. The plane could not get in to pick him up due to winds and he said they told all jokes they knew, read the matteress tag several times and he read his one and only book. Nothing to do but look at each other and listen to the wind howl. I now take several books on any hunt. Another suggestion was about some simple item from Pachmayr that went around your ankle and instep that held your waders to your foot better and prevented blisters. I picked up two good simple tips off that Q&A. I think that is the stuff we are all looking for that makes our hunt go right rather than wrong. I can always learn as I am a tad short in the elephant shooting business being a west Texan but I am hell for stout in the whacking Texas long earred Jackrabbits! I think after 50 yrs. + of playing with guns I have the 30/06 and 270 question figured out too. Gimme more 416, 404, 9.3, 375 etc...or as Sgt. Joe Friday on Dragnet said, "Nothing but the facts." You can borrow money but you can not borrow time. Go hunting with your family. | |||
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When I was growing up in Montana my 270 was good for every game animal I could hunt, with the exception of Grizzly bear, I was armed with the one gun battery. Now I see people clain that the 270 is not enough gun and that a 30 cal magnum is required for clean kills. I think a lot of it has to do with people taking longer an longer shots in this country. I do not know about Africa? Next year will be my first trip to Africa and I will take along a 30-06 and 375 H&H for PG. Because I am comfortable with those calibers and the recoil they generate. And people one this board and all of the PH's I talked to said they were perfect. But if I could afford to buy a nice double in 470 NE I would. Why? Because your "supposed" to have a double in Africa, Capstick used one, they are romantic, and of course all of the African hunting books I have ever read have had atleast one double mentioned in them.. | |||
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Ropes You can take any trophy that you want with a 30-06 and a 375H&H, but, if you can afford it, you need a 470 NE double. Just like everyone needs a 3030 lever action. Why? If I have to explain you wouldn't understand. Terry | |||
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I would say that bigger is not always better. If you feel comfortable with 375H&H that's fine because the bullet placement is all you need. I have shot a buff with 9,3x62 286gr. bullet. Buffy went only 30 yards and later we found him stone dead. However I always felt that I am a heavy bullet guy so for DGR I have chosen the 450Rigby. I feel comfortable with it and it will NUMB any of those angry buffies with certainty. | |||
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quote: Good reasoning, stick to the calibers you know and are comfortable with, load the best bullets at modest pressures, and you'll have a heck of a time. Don't let all the hoopla about this or that caliber or gun distract you from the basics! - mike ********************* The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart | |||
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Hey Mickey, you really staggered me... Do you speak Czech? That's not bad... not bad at all... Lovu Zdar! | |||
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Mickey, You guys should start you're own magazine with only whiney authors that were born in Africa.  This topic has covered everything from only wanting laundry-list stories to wanting no laundry-list stories. The Sporting Gazette is no better than any others, IMO. Many articles are snoozers but there is always something to learn, except for me that knows damn near everything. As long as the stories are not pimpimg something I have been fairly happy with the present crop of articles. Just because some guy was born by accident in Africa doesn't carry much weight with me. So bring on the insults. ------------------------------- Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped. “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Reg The African Hunter, I find it to still be the best read out there. Don Heath's articles are entertaining and informative. I do prefer the articles written by the African (Zim) PH's, with their perspectives, experiences, guiding stories, etc. Anything by Ian Nyschens is a real treat - keep these coming AH while he's still kicking!!!. I also enjoy well-written articles by hunters, such as Will Jr's article, as commented in a previous thread. With rare exception (such as those by AR members), what is lacking in any of the SCI Magazine articles is any "substance". They all start the same (at the climax of the hunt, what is that all about???), read the same, and end the same. There is usually an ad for the outfitter somewhere in the magazine (this is business...I understand, but it heightens the commercialism of the article). After reading the article, assuming I can get through it, I have learned nothing about the area, game populations and quality, history of the concession, etc. Not every article needs to be informative, and good yarns are very enjoyable. But there is near-zero "academic value" in the SCI Magazine. On the plus side, it does provide some info on areas outside of Africa (China, Mongolia, Austria, etc), and a few have been how-too's and perhaps useful. I too hope the African Hunter finds a way to balance the various forces, and remain a magazine for "African insiders". Maybe each month something from the esteemed PH's in Zim. I mean, how many articles can one read by "Fred Duckworth".... Certainly I'd rather hear from the Brooms, Hallamore's, Sharps, and guys I never heard of, not to mention the PH from other countries. Just my 2-cents... | |||
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Allen, quote: Define well. I don't flinch if that is what you mean. I can drill an elk at 250+ yards with barely any artificial support (back of hand up against a sapling or such) with a 500. I always have to concentrate on the shot, regardless of what rifle I am using (this includes the dimunitive M1904 Winnie 22RF). Having said that, I can understand and appreciate your point. Most hunters I know have a difficult time with a 338 or even a 300 magnum. They definitely are intimidated by the recoil. ASS_CLOWN | |||
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Ganyana, What is Mike LaGrange doing now? I know very few people who can shoot a 500 nitro well. This does not mean it would not be fun to own one and learn how! My two articles on FMJ bullet penmetration at different rotational velocities, and premium 458 soft points was rejected by Reloader and Rifle because 1) They had a 2 year back log of articles, and 2)they dont take articles from other than their staff anymore. (Not Invented Here Syndrome). I suspect it was because it might offend one or two of their advertisers. While I would not claim to be literate I was an editor at Janes for 17 years. If I cant get published with two of the more interesting 3 year long studies ever written, what chance does any of us have? We need an on-line magazine. Andy | |||
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this one is for alf,,,i hate to bother you but i read somewhere on the net that you are the guy to talk to about mausers,,that is how i found this great forum,,,anyway my question is i just picked up a german mauser k98 1940..i just got the cosmoline off and fired a few rounds out of the old girl,to my dismay the cartridges dont load very smooth,i get the feeling it is the ejector,i have a 308 cogswell and harrison mauser action,and when ya push the bolt forward the shell just jumps right up into position,but this thing aint doin that ,i have to double stroke it to get the round in there,ius this a common problem with these guns or is it just some fine tunein,any advice would be nice,,thanks | |||
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Ganyana, I agree with you whole heartedly, some of those guys should at least get a ghost writer and document their deeds...You included, but I have read all your stuff I think..but a book would be nice.. By the same token a book by Saeed would be filled with many stories and I have always tried to get Johan calitz to write..Roy Vicent could certainly write a book as he is very intelligent and has something to say..I spent a month with Roy last year and he is a treasure cove of information on about every plant, bug, bird and animal in African.. By the same token Africa has some gun and hunting writers that have been pretty much limited to shooting plainsgame, but that is not a sin, I am always up to reading a good plainsgame hunt with a certain rifle and load.. Harold Wolfe has always been one of my favorite writers and he has a world of experience in the dark places of Africa.. I think we just have to take each writer on his own merit, and all of us have a favorite, and those we don't care form, but I think there are no international boundries in this world of ours.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Alf, An insight to what some would called the American culture (I say that becuase SCI Reno is dominated by American influense) as it relates to your questions below...We are a society of want not need. We are a society of take something and improve it no matter how slight the improvement. We are a society of speed not tradition. We are a society of constant advancement not necessarily higher quality. We consume the most of any country and we are the most generous country. We are a society of poor planning and incredible response. The above is neither good nor bad it just is... The status of DG calibers and their nessesity in African hunting? This is a want issue not a need issue. Let's face it a 400 class cartridge pushing a 400 grn bullet at 2400 fps is plenty for anything. Even a 375 class pushing 300 grn bullet at 2500 fps will satisy 90+% of all our hunting neesds. The americanization of traditionally home grown African gun magazines? Americans feel if they have done something 5 times they are an expert. If you exclude knowledge of the flora and fauna and the ability to read spoor...how much is there really to know about African equipment. Which is what much of magazines are about. Relaibility in the field is relaibility in the field period. The air, humidity, dirt, cold, and wet of Africa is no different than Alaska to Alabama. The hunters guild as advertised by Peter V? have no idea what this is about but American culture is one of specialization and minor improvement it permeates almost everything. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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