The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Is hunting large game ranches in South Africa fair chase?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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So is it just fences in the RSA you blokes have problems with? What about the Save and Lemco Conservancies in Zim? What about Nchilla and other game ranches in Zambia? And Namibia? If you want to condemn hunting behind high fences, be my guest... but why limit the discussion to South Africa? In the end my take is the "fair chase" issue of hunting behind high fences, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. If you felt you hunted hard, had a great time and felt you earned your trophies, don't sweat it. If it totally turns you off, don't do it. I have learned long ago that other peoples opinions matter... but mostly to themselves! Always follow the direction of your own moral compass! And have I hunted behind high fences? Absolutely! Several high fences in South Africa, several low fences in South Africa... yes they do exist, Lemco, Save and I can still sleep at night, thank you very much. Too much sanctimonious bullshit here sometimes. On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died. If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch... Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! - Rudyard Kipling Life grows grim without senseless indulgence. | |||
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The Idea of fair chase resides in every hunter, in some it resonates in others its dormant. Every hunter knows in his heart whether it was FAIR CHASE, If you did everything in an ethical fashion,and finally outwitted your Quarry on his own ground ,on his terms that constitues Fairchase in my Book , fence or no fence, as long as the species you were hunting was "NOT" physically curtailed in any way. If on the other hand regardless of how expansive the area is, if you "ride it down in a truck/or hunting vehicle" does that constitute fair chase ? Fences have Something to do with it, but ultimately it resides in us as hunters to set our defenitions & boundaries. Have hunted both ways enjoyed them both, its all about being true to oneself & fair to ones Quarry. | |||
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This thread is a little like asking what a car costs. The answer is obviously that it depends on which car one is considering. Similarly, all fenced properties are not identical. I have been on high fenced properties that one could not walk across in a full day. Hunting on these doesn't bother me at all. However , I have seen some high fences that are very small with little cover. I flatly refuse to "hunt" on these properties. The Save, as I understand it, has a low fence around the outside to keep cattle out. I have hunted the Save twice and the only fences I saw were around houses or vegetable gardens. I think the fencing in the RSA is there because of other reasons. The landowners have a big investment in their farms. They don't want part of their investment wandering off to the neighboring property. I totally get that . | |||
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Saeed and Bwanamrm: +1!!!!  | |||
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Actually, the Save is high-fenced to keep game in. I have been to the edge and it does exist. There is a huge sugar plantation on the border of the Mkwasine block... electrified high fence actually, but the elephant still find their way through! On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died. If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch... Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! - Rudyard Kipling Life grows grim without senseless indulgence. | |||
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I believe that there may be great hunting behind fences, but because unfenced areas still exist, that is where I choose to hunt. Where others decided to hunt is their own business. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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So true... Good post Russell! I have a few friends that are game ranchers in both Texas and S. Africa. The smallest operation that I've hunted on in South Africa was 2200 ac. This farm was thick bushveld and shooting a damn impala on it was damn near impossible, and this was just a little pasture of only  2200 ac. It seems to me that most folks on here equate wild with size. Dont know if that totally works. I know of a Farm right now that is a little under 10,000 ac that is damn wild, we saw a Leopard, Heyna, Jackel, and I hunted 7 days on it and never got a shot at a Blue Wildebeest/ even though I saw a ton--and there is alot on the place. Does a fence and size not make this place wild? On the 3 South African farms that I hunted on. I never saw a animal run into a fence (trying to find a way out) and these are small farms-- 2200 ac, 8000 ac, 5000 ac--. I grew up on a farm and ranch in West Texas that was a little under 7500 ac, I never thought that was a small place either. I guess size does matter,-- and all the whitetail deer I shot off there were eating out of a little fenced chage/oh and I had them all named too! I will continue to hunt in South Africa, matter of fact I'll be there in June shooting some more pen raised animals !Enjoy hunting what you guys think is wild!!!!  DRSS Member | |||
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You and a lot of others are the reason SA has game animals outside the parks, and we all know that is a good thing. Everyone has their own hang-ups, mine is game fencing. But I guess I could have worse hang-ups, right? For me it is not a question of fair chase. Trying to make it a question of "fair chase" only serves to reduce it to a black and white issue. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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If it were just the high fencing that was the issue and the area was big enough then I have no problem with it fitting my (again just my opinion) definition of fair chase. The real problem as I see it comes with what goes along with high fencing and by that I mean all those things which are loosly called "management". They include bringing in species to be hunted for profit, breeding for more inches,pen raising,feeding, exporting animals for profit, offering hunts that accomplish genetic selection aka cull hunts. To my knowledge there is no economical reason to high fence and not do "management". So for me it is the package of things that comes with high fencing which is the turn off. Kalahari Lion (Bots 07)  | |||
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Dawnroar Thank you for your reasonable attitude, we dont agree but i think would get along well in camp. A serious question-If we hunt 6 year old lions and preferably no pride holders and we target Dugga-boys which some feelhave past breeding age are we not practicing "Management"? I am sure you are not advocating shooting immature lions and soft bossed bulls but where is the "management " line drawn? SSR asking again SSR | |||
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This sounds awfully similar to something one might read at the PETA website.  :: :: :: | |||
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Unfortunately, PETA doesn't have to do much research for fodder for its rants. Bill Quimby | |||
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I hunted on a game ranch in RSA last April. If you hunt in that country, you are on private land. One block was 3x9 miles. That is 27,288 acres. I heard Zebras every day. Never saw as much as one striped ass flying the other direction. Ten days there, never caught a glimpse of one. The degree of sport is always proportional to the difficulty of spotting, stalking, and then getting a good shot off at a particular animal. The ones I shot were all rather like work hunting them down. See tracks, follow tracks... It is, like life, mostly what you make of it. Rich | |||
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Hey guys, Isn't it funny that the folks that have a problem with "high fences" have the least knowledge of the situation? Putting your own preconceived notions into a situation and then damning it doesn't seem very open minded to me. Reminds me of the saying, "I've made up my mind, don't try to confuse me with facts."  Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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I will say what the land owner does on the land means alot. On one of the ranches I talked about-- the 5,000 ac ranch-- he holds just 7 hunts a year on it-- so it stays pretty wild. On another the smaller 2200 it is just bow hunted unless he needs to take off some animals, that keeps it wild. I'm just like anyone else, I dont want to shoot in a pen, there are lots of variables. Ed DRSS Member | |||
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As I was trying to say, it is not black and white, and never will be.  Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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Thanks to game ranches wildlife is making a tremendous comeback - but then, hunters like us, who go to SA and are willing to pay trophy fees make this possible. | |||
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Whom decides what is fair chase, is it a law that is in place or is it a figment of someones imagination. If someone can (define fair chase to the n'th degree) then MAYBE we can offer a fair answer !! It like saying I will only marry a girl/lady whom does not use the internet or internet dating sites etc, as that could be construed as unfair chase using technology (internet fence) instead of finding the right one in the open Cheers, Peter | |||
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Amen!!! | |||
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 fat chicks inc. | |||
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Well,looking forward throughout Africa including RSA and the problems of human population growth, land utilization, unabated poaching....we will ALL be thankful for game ranching because it's the only positive thing going now for the animals and hunters. Bob DRSS DSC SCI NRA & ISRA | |||
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I agree... love this one. Charl has it dead right. Remember, forgivness is easier to get than permission. | |||
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I know I am a fool for trying to make comments on the internet dating analogy but my nature is such that I can't resist. Internet dating is like high fencing and here is why. When you are stalking them in the wild, using your trusty wallet,nice car and last but not least lying charm these animals have natural instincts mother nature or their own mother gave them to counter balance and even out the hunt. When they are on the internet wanting to be trapped half of the hunt is over. They are like cripples at that point and no fun to hunt.Certainly most of the danger in being told NO is already overcome. A single friend of mine described internet dating like "clubbing baby seals". Sorry no sport there. A deeper ethical question involves hunting them at bars. I have mixed feeling on this one. After all bars are like water holes. The big difference though is the water in Africa replenishes the animals making them harder to track whereas alchohol is well...we all know what it does and has made hunting this species much easier. Now if they are drinking and with a group of gilrfriends we can all agree that to cut one lose and make the kill is the greatest sport of all. The feats of Pondoro pale in comparison to this remarkable accomplishment. Now to relating this to high fencing....naw more fun to leave the two sports as they are intended. Not related. Kalahari Lion (Bots 07) | |||
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OK I will take the bait but before the flaming starts I am not critical in any way of those who chose to hunt high fences and as Saeed said the real question is whether it is fair to you. 1.zero and will not hunt SA. every one has their opinion very bold if you haven't hunted SA 2.Doesn't matter. It is enclosed to keep animals in and predators out. Species are traded like a commodity. Auctions are thriving. Selective killing for "management" is taking place. Breeding for more inches is common. Diet supplement. If any of those factors are present it just doesn't interest me and does not meet "my" fair chase standard. Does using a rifle,scope,sent blocker , full body camo suit,decoys ,callers and shooting from a tree stand not also fall into this category 3. On foot or it isn't fair chase anywhere. I am an equal oppertunity critic on this one. Shooting out of the truck isn't hunting.What is the difference between a blind and truck. do you think hunting in the Kruger park is fair chase ? it also has a fence around it. you are welcome to visit south africa and hunt some properties here then you will be able to give a much more informed post because at this point you are talking %$^&*"£ "Buy land they have stopped making it"- Mark Twain | |||
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Dawnroar Hunting tuskless is management also-most of the modern hunting we do is mamagement of one sort or another. SSR | |||
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I want to mention this again, because it is critically IMPORTANT. IT IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN ALL THE ISSUES REGARDING HUNTING ETHICS, ETC. GAME RANCHES IN SOUTH AFRICA AND ELSEWHERE ARE BRINGING THE WILDLIFE BACK (BIG TIME), AND GIVING THEM AND OTHER WILDLIFE TYPES A PLACE TO LIVE - WHERE THEY DIDN'T HAVE A PLACE BEFORE. Their ranges are even BEING EXTENDED!! AND WE THE HUNTERS OF THE WORLD DID IT!!! HUNTERS ARE THE ULTIMATE CONSERVATIONISTS. WITHOUT WILDLIFE WE HAVE NO HOBBY, AND I SUBMIT OUR HOBBY MAKES US LOVE WILDLIFE EVEN MORE! HUNTERS ARE WILDLIFE'S BEST FRIENDS. WE SHOULD NOT CRITICIZE - BUT SUPPORT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN SOUTH AFRICA. WE SHOULD EVEN PROMOTE IT EVERYWHERE!!! If it pays to have wildlife, there will be wildlife. I can't wait to get back to RSA and hunt. I CAN'T THINK OF A BETTER WAY TO SPEND MY MONEY. Regards, AIU | |||
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 Point taken sir!I bet everybody on this forum understands and appreciates the truth in the content of your statements - I for one do with regards to the conservation aspect. Furthermore, it is a sad but true fact that these fenced-off tracts will increasingly become islands of game in a sea of overgrazed and poached-out bush. Thus, will be the last great hope for Africa's wild creatures. Fences keep game in, but are becoming more critical in keeping people out!!! But, to the point of this thread - these are some of us "old schoolers" that just don't like the idea of hunting a fenced-in range, be it 500-50,000 acres, or more. I think that is the nexus of this discussion. High fences are the future for most of Africa's hunting. That I am afraid is the inevitable future we are facing. | |||
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Very interesting thread. I would like to take this up a notch and add another ingredient to the mix. But first, my dilemma. I live in Alberta Canada and own and hunt on 100 acres of treed river bottomland. The property is not fenced. Nor are the properties all along the valley where my property lies. Lots of deer, moose and bear crossing through my property. Being of German decent, I learned early on of tree stands and as such, built a couple of stands over small open patches, (one to two acres), of land I seeded with grains and peas. For several years I hunted over these patches in the tree stands and bagged a deer every year. In the last couple of years I have been having a real battle with my conscience. In November of 2010, I had a beautiful 5x5 whitetail buck pass under my tree stand and walk through the field into the woods on the other side. He was nose down and following his girl friend. He stopped about twenty yards from the tree stand, looked up at me, sniffed the air and decided it was safe to resume. Now for the question; Seeded plots in the middle of the forest, 16 foot high tree stands, cover scent hanging from the tree stand walls, double rifle with scope. Is THIS fair chase? I suppose it isn't chase so much as it is ambush but you get the idea. By the way, for those of you who are wondering if I pulled the trigger, I looked at that buck and thought back thirty years to when I was nose down and following a scent. Boy was I rut crazy with a temporary loss of brains. I couldn't do it. I just watched him disappear into the forest. I just didn't think it was FAIR to be hiding in a tree like a sniper laying in wait for his target. Boy was my wife pissed with me. She tells me I am getting soft. I like to think that I am just trying to make the game a little more FAIR. I think from now on I will be hunting from the ground and from behind bushes. Suggestions, comments and criticisms always welcome. Kindest regards, Carpediem No politician who supports gun control should recieve armed protection paid for by those he is trying to disarm. Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways-scotch in one hand-Chocolate in the other-body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WHOO-HOO, WHAT A RIDE!!" Madly Off In All Directions | |||
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I hunted a "farm" in southern Namibia. One portion of it was "high fenced", but we hunted both the low-fenced and the high-fenced portions. The high-fenced portion was 20,000 ha, or about 77 SQAUARE MILES. The low-fenced portion was larger, at over 100 square miles. The primary difference was that the high-fenced portion was completely off-limits to cattle. The high fence appeared to have been helpful, at least a couple of decades ago when it would have looked more like a fence than a place where a fence used to be, in managing restocked species into a viable breeding population. As it was, the fence presented absolutely no barrier to many species such as kudu, eland, springbok, warthogs, jackals, baboons, and perhaps a few others. We happened to take all of our kudus, warthogs, and several springboks on the low-fenced portion. Game "inside" the high fence acted no differently from game "outside" the high fence. In case no one has noticed, Africa is an island. No animal can escape (other than by jumping the Suez and making an impossible trek across the Saudi pennisula.) So is it "fair chase" when the animals are contained by water instead of a fence? Clearly, it is a matter of degree whether an animal is "unfairly" contained in an enclosure. Whether that enclosure is the size of Africa, or the size of a suburban residential lot does make a difference. When I can open one gate and travel by truck all the rest of the day without opening another gate, I'm pretty satisfied that that enclosure is large enough. | |||
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Carpediem, start hunting with a bow, although probably not as humane. AIU | |||
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Carpediem, Good post and I have had clients turn down opportunities on animals because they felt it was all too easy. Hunting on foot is for me the very best experience and I would say that there are many large fenced areas in Africa where the chase is fair. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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I have been lucky enough to hunt the Eastern Cape 4 times. Some very large farms 50000 plus and others much smaller. My wife and I have never 'hemmed' up an animal for the kill. We have always used fair chase spot and stalk and love it. The high fences really do not bother us as long as the animal is not up against a fence. Life member NRA formally scrappy | |||
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Ackley Improved User: I have had a compound bow for 10 years and 2010 was the first year I went hunting with it. My game was moose. In Alberta, moose are now on draw for rifle. You will be lucky to get a tag once every four years. If you hunt bow, you don't have to draw and the season is open during their rut. I set up a portable tree stand in a willow bowl on my property. Lots of calling, lots of scent. I don't think I am a very good caller as I hunted for three weeks without having one moose come to my call. BUT, on this day, the sun is shining, it's about 10:00 am and I have just finished a bull call when looking down the willow draw, out comes a large bull moose headed straight for my stand; pissed as hell and looking for a fight. He gets to within 20 metres and stops dead and realizes something is wrong. I start making cow calls and this confuses him more. I range him with the range finder. He is twenty yard exactly from my stand. I raise my bow and start to draw.  He sees movement and starts to back away. I call again. He stops and looks. I am at full draw and waiting for the broad side shot. He moves out and then moves closer as I give a bull grunt. He is now broadside. I release the arrow and in a slow motion-like sequence I watch the arrow sail 40 metres from the bow to the quarry and just nick the bottom of his chest landing in the willows on the offside of the Bull Moose.  Well, that moose jumped straight up  and all four hooves were three feet off the ground when that arrow nicked him. When he landed he took off on a run and stopped about 50 metres away. He looked back and I am sure he must have been thinking, "What the hell was that all about?"I spent the next five minutes calling him and he kept moving closer and farther away. Poor boy was quite confused as to the whole affair. I tried to get a second shot but, either the willows were in the way or the sun was shining straight into my eyes. After the bull left the area, I recovered the arrow and checked for blood trail. The arrow had a very, very small trace of blood but no fat, tissue or hair. There was only a drop of blood on the snow where he had been hit and I spent the rest of the day trying to track him. Boy, do you want to talk about fair CHASE. So, what happened? In my excitement at having my first possible kill with my bow, I neglected to take into account that the bull had move a further twenty yards from me from the time I used the range finder and the time I got the shot off. In short, I used the twenty-metre pin when I should have used the 40-metre pin.  A lesson well learned and, more importantly, another fabulous hunt and memories I will take to the rocking chair.  Suggestions, comments and criticisms always welcome. Kindest regards, Carpediem No politician who supports gun control should recieve armed protection paid for by those he is trying to disarm. Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways-scotch in one hand-Chocolate in the other-body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WHOO-HOO, WHAT A RIDE!!" Madly Off In All Directions | |||
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As a group I think we must be the most insecure, limp wristed panty wastes that ever walked the face of the earth.Why in the Hell do so many of you people feel an overwhelming desire to get the approval of your peers? Hunt wherever the Hell you want to hunt.If it feels good, you have a good time , and it's legal....go for it! If something, on the other hand makes you feel uncomfortable about a place or a hunt, then elect not to hunt there.Why argue endlessly over whether or not a hunt is fair chase? There is never going to be universal agreement on this issue.But why let that keep you awake at night? At the end of the day, you know if you challenged yourself, enjoyed a new experience, made new friends, collected a nice trophy, had a good time? Try to grow a pair and be secure in the decisions you make and forget about trying to get everyone else to pat you on the back and tell you that what you did was OK. We seldom get to choose But I've seen them go both ways And I would rather go out in a blaze of glory Than to slowly rot away! | |||
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Damn! Another hunter from Louisiana that gets it! Must be something in the water. Louisiana hunters don't seem to have so many of these ethical quandaries that plague hunters from other regions. If I went through so much soul searching and angst as some of y'all do I would quit hunting and take up birdwatching.I hunt, not to kill, but in order not to have played golf.... DRSS | |||
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Eyedoc and RAC: How old are you two? Now don't go gettin yur dander up jus yet  . The reason I ask is, I have found in my case, as I get older the question of fair hunt and ethics become more prevelant.When I first started hunting, I shot at any thing that moved. Getting into my thirty's, I found myself becoming a little more discriminating. As I was primarily a meat hunter, I wanted the biggest doe/buck I could find. Nothing less than three years old. In my forties I decided I could no longer kill a doe because of course, they had fawns to tend to and as usual, the buck was the expendable member in the species, (pay attention you unmarried guys). Now that I just broke fifty, I am no longer so much interested in the meat, (unless the freezer is empty. Can't go without a deer steak now can I) as I am in the hunt. But for me, to get past my conscience, it has to be as close to fair as I can make it. Now, since I am no good at sneeking up on a deer and jabbing him with a pointy stick the next closest thing would be bow or rifle; and stalking from ground, not waiting in a tree. Funny thing is, my father was the same way. The last ten years we went hunting together, he came out for the pleasure and the comeradery. He just brought a rifle to make it look good. And if I am to be honest with myself, I am now more a trophy hunter than a meat hunter. It means for me, being a little more choosey and not blasting everything in the forest. I leave the meat hunting to my wife. She's better at killing than I am. After all, I made sure she had the best teacher; me . And don't kid yourself, she's better at this game than I will ever be. She says my new Indian name is vegetarian  . I think it means "lousy hunter", in Cree  .Suggestions, comments, criticisms always welcome. Kindest regards, Carpediem Madly Off In All Directions  No politician who supports gun control should recieve armed protection paid for by those he is trying to disarm. Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways-scotch in one hand-Chocolate in the other-body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WHOO-HOO, WHAT A RIDE!!" Madly Off In All Directions | |||
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I think you might be onto something here. Not in the case of these fellows necessarily as I don't know anything about them but in general. Also, maybe not in the number of years on the planet but the number of years hunting or hunting a certain species. I'm not likely to shoot a 17" or 18" whitetail buck because what the Hell will I do with another one? I shot my first deer in the Bicentennial year and if I want some backstraps I'll do my part for our particular management plan and shoot a cull or doe. In about 6 weeks I'm making my first trip to Africa and you can bet your boots I'll be killing some animals. I suspect some of it (maybe all) will be behind high fences. So I'm old as a deer hunter and young as an African hunter and my standards are different for each. My ethics stay the same regardless and if I'm not comfortable with a situation as it pertains to my sense of fair chase (the only one that matters)I'll speak up. After all, I'm the guy cutting the check. John Life Member Second Amendment Foundation Life Member NRA DRSS | |||
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Well, I will be 50 in a month. Does this mean that I will now lose interest in hunting (killing, it does involve killing) of various wildlife and be content just to take pictures or walk around the woods with an unloaded rifle pretending to hunt? I don't care what anybody else does, just as long as it is legal from the region they are hunting. I understand the differences in other states/countries pertaining to the taking of game, but I don't understand why there has to be such angst over the many methods of hunting. If you are having a good time and not violating the local game laws, then who cares? Go out and have yourself a good time, be it sheep hunting, stalking buffalo, or shooting deer over bait in Texas. Your personal ethics are just that, your own. Hell, the members of this particular board are the most maligned hunters on the planet...TROPHY HUNTERS! That's right, you people are evil! You travel all the way to a foreign land, exploit the wildlife by killing it, and then bring back nothing but horns and pictures. Don't believe me? Ask non-hunters how they feel about hunting and they will almost invariably state it is alright if the game is hunted for subsistence or meat. That's ignorance on their part, but you get my drift. Shit, I do this because I enjoy it. When it is no longer fun I will quit. Until then I am going hunting. I hunt, not to kill, but in order not to have played golf.... DRSS | |||
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Nicholosi: I second that .RAC: It appears we are saying the same thing but in different ways  .What I have been trying to say all along is it's up to you as to what fair chase is and, what you think today may be different tomorrow. Now RAC, you have pointed out a very interesting situation. I was at a trade show some years ago with African exhibitors in attendance. I approached the Kenyan tourist booth and asked the very nice African lady what they offered in the way of hunts. She gave me a dirty look and asked me why I would want to come to Africa to kill all the game and it's because of hunters like me that there is so little game left in Africa. I wasn't about to try to educate the woman on hunting conservation so just walked away. I'm at a point in my life where I don't give a crap what other people think  . Ask questions and I will try to educate. Point fingers and I will walk away. If you follow, be prepared for something unexpected  .Suggestions, comments and criticisms always welcome. Kindest regards, Carpediem Madly off in all directions No politician who supports gun control should recieve armed protection paid for by those he is trying to disarm. Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways-scotch in one hand-Chocolate in the other-body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WHOO-HOO, WHAT A RIDE!!" Madly Off In All Directions | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Is hunting large game ranches in South Africa fair chase?
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