quote:

Originally posted by congomike:
No dog in this fight, really, just a question...for all those who use them for business, or help with whatever you are doing at the moment, be it hunting, driving, walking, etc. etc., how in the world did anyone succeed in any of the endeavors they use cell phones for now before the advent of cell phones?

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Gentlemen:
I have noticed, over the past decade and a half, of PHs and their increasing dependence on cell phones. In 2003 a Zim PH, Evans Mkanza, was on his cell constantly during the day when hunting and at camp in the evening. In the years that followed the PHs seem to spend more and more time on the phone both for entertainment and business. (I mean it's more than the occasional call to the Mrs. to say she is missed and loved).

A friend just returned from a buffalo hunt. His PH was with his phone 24-7. At dinner, around the camp fire, driving, hunting, etc. On my last few hunts it is never ending. The phone is by the PH during dinner. We don't have a conversation around the traditional fire in the am or pm as he is on the damn phone. When I speak he will answer but I am definitely interrupting something more important. The cell is plugged in to the car and is eyed when driving. The phone rings when tracking. I was admonished for stepping on leaves and cracking a branch: "Can you hear yourself?" he said. Shortly afterward the phone rang and he booked a leopard hunt while tracking.

Don't get me wrong--I like and trust my PH. Perhaps I'm annoyed at all the phone usage as I see it so much in the schools and colleges. But, I ask, has it gone too far?

What are your experiences with PHs and their phones?
Just wonderin'.
Cal

You should have made it clear from day one that this sort of behavior will not be tolerated.

Anyone wants to use a phone on safari - whether cell phone or satellite phone, should do so on his own time at camp.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeBurke:

quote:

Originally posted by congomike:
No dog in this fight, really, just a question...for all those who use them for business, or help with whatever you are doing at the moment, be it hunting, driving, walking, etc. etc., how in the world did anyone succeed in any of the endeavors they use cell phones for now before the advent of cell phones?

1985: Hello can I speak to Mike? When he returns please ask him to call me. I read something in the newspaper I would like to discuss with him. Yes of course tomorrow is fine.

2017: by text: call me. One minute later: voice mail: I read something on Motley Fool I need to change my entire portfolio today. If you cannot respond quicker I will go elsewhere.

Different expectations.

Write a letter and mail it to a friend lately?

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Mike, I hear you. I'm too old not to!

But it can still be done.

If you call me when I am hunting, and you are not my family or assistant (with inside information), you will get this response:

"This is an extended absence greeting. You have reached Michael Robinson's voice mail. I will be out of the office until [INSERT DATE]. While I am away, I will be unable to check voice mail or email messages, except intermittently. If you need to speak to someone immediately, please press zero and the pound symbol, and ask for my assistant [INSERT ASSISTANT'S NAME]. Thanks."

Feel free to plagiarize this. I encourage it.

The keys are preparation, and adequate coverage, and adjustment of expectations.

quote:

Originally posted by congomike:
No dog in this fight, really, just a question...for all those who use them for business, or help with whatever you are doing at the moment, be it hunting, driving, walking, etc. etc., how in the world did anyone succeed in any of the endeavors they use cell phones for now before the advent of cell phones?

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
I'll ask once again, where are you guys hunting where there is cell service?

I've never seen cell service in TZ, Zambia, CAR, Botswana (in the GMA's). Only saw it in RSA and even that was spotty at best.

Perhaps a trip further off the grid would be a wise choice. Ask up front if there is cellular service.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
I'll ask once again, where are you guys hunting where there is cell service?

I've never seen cell service in TZ, Zambia, CAR, Botswana (in the GMA's). Only saw it in RSA and even that was spotty at best.

Perhaps a trip further off the grid would be a wise choice. Ask up front if there is cellular service.

quote:

Originally posted by congomike:
No dog in this fight, really, just a question...for all those who use them for business, or help with whatever you are doing at the moment, be it hunting, driving, walking, etc. etc., how in the world did anyone succeed in any of the endeavors they use cell phones for now before the advent of cell phones?

quote:

If the ph is also an outfitter - he has business reasons to be on his phone and communicate with clients, arrange supplies for camp, deal with business/government issues.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
What this whole negativity to smart phones ?

Its the core new consumer and communication product for the last 20 years. its a game changer - look at apple market cap and sales.

Nearly everyone will have it. If on your vacation you dont want the PH to use his phone in your company - convey it. You are paying him and he will understand you have an issue with it.

If the ph is also an outfitter - he has business reasons to be on his phone and communicate with clients, arrange supplies for camp, deal with business/government issues.

After everyone is done with their dinner drinks and BS. I personally enjoying sitting alone by the mopane fire, drinking a cold beer, getting on my iphone 7 plus and checking the markets, emails, texts and the news. When I was at mokore and did that - Gary Duckworth would be in his office doing his emails and whatsapp communication for an hr. He would then head off to bed and I would shout I am streaming netflix and burning your data. We were just wrapping up work stuff at the end of the day. Smart phone is just the tool to do that - communicate/get information.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
What this whole negativity to smart phones ?

Its the core new consumer and communication product for the last 20 years. its a game changer - look at apple market cap and sales.

Nearly everyone will have it. If on your vacation you dont want the PH to use his phone in your company - convey it. You are paying him and he will understand you have an issue with it.

If the ph is also an outfitter - he has business reasons to be on his phone and communicate with clients, arrange supplies for camp, deal with business/government issues.

After everyone is done with their dinner drinks and BS. I personally enjoying sitting alone by the mopane fire, drinking a cold beer, getting on my iphone 7 plus and checking the markets, emails, texts and the news. When I was at mokore and did that - Gary Duckworth would be in his office doing his emails and whatsapp communication for an hr. He would then head off to bed and I would shout I am streaming netflix and burning your data. We were just wrapping up work stuff at the end of the day. Smart phone is just the tool to do that - communicate/get information.

Mike

I am all for this fantastic technology.

But, it has no place in the bush while hunting.

At camp, on your own time, do as you please.

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

If the ph is also an outfitter - he has business reasons to be on his phone and communicate with clients, arrange supplies for camp, deal with business/government issues.

The office desk should be in charge of business and any related calls; the outfitter should program his phone to divert incoming calls and give his undivided attention to his clients who have paid for his services.

Failing so, the outfitter should employ sufficient numbers of PHs to do the dirty work while he attends to administrative duties.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

If the ph is also an outfitter - he has business reasons to be on his phone and communicate with clients, arrange supplies for camp, deal with business/government issues.

The office desk should be in charge of business and any related calls; the outfitter should program his phone to divert incoming calls and give his undivided attention to his clients who have paid for his services.

Failing so, the outfitter should employ sufficient numbers of PHs to do the dirty work while he attends to administrative duties.

Bullsh@t why can't a ph after he is done with his client and on his private time attend to his business.

Undivided attention to a client - is one a professional hunter or professional chaperone.

We need to realize this is a commercial relationship - your ph is not best friend, camp buddy, posse. Someone who drinks whiskey cause you are drinking whiskey and smokes cigars cause you are smoking cigars. He is someone doing a job and you control aspects on his behavior within the context of his job. Not within the context of your vacation.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

If the ph is also an outfitter - he has business reasons to be on his phone and communicate with clients, arrange supplies for camp, deal with business/government issues.

The office desk should be in charge of business and any related calls; the outfitter should program his phone to divert incoming calls and give his undivided attention to his clients who have paid for his services.

Failing so, the outfitter should employ sufficient numbers of PHs to do the dirty work while he attends to administrative duties.

Bullsh@t why can't a ph after he is done with his client and on his private time attend to his business.

Undivided attention to a client - is one a professional hunter or professional chaperone.

We need to realize this is a commercial relationship - your ph is not best friend, camp buddy, posse. Someone who drinks whiskey cause you are drinking whiskey and smokes cigars cause you are smoking cigars. He is someone doing a job and you control aspects on his behavior within the context of his job. Not within the context of your vacation.

Mike

Actually, my professional hunter IS my best friend, and so is his whole family. And non of us drink whiskey

And using an iphone for taking safari photos is not my cup of tea either.

I take a number of proper pockets cameras and give each member of the safari one.

I like to see your photos taken with the iphone at 100 or 200 yards

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

If the ph is also an outfitter - he has business reasons to be on his phone and communicate with clients, arrange supplies for camp, deal with business/government issues.

The office desk should be in charge of business and any related calls; the outfitter should program his phone to divert incoming calls and give his undivided attention to his clients who have paid for his services.

Failing so, the outfitter should employ sufficient numbers of PHs to do the dirty work while he attends to administrative duties.

Bullsh@t why can't a ph after he is done with his client and on his private time attend to his business.

Undivided attention to a client - is one a professional hunter or professional chaperone.

We need to realize this is a commercial relationship - your ph is not best friend, camp buddy, posse. Someone who drinks whiskey cause you are drinking whiskey and smokes cigars cause you are smoking cigars. He is someone doing a job and you control aspects on his behavior within the context of his job. Not within the context of your vacation.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Steve,

Michel Mantheakis in Tanzania, Mokore Safaris in their areas in Zim and Mozambique and Johnny Du Plooy on the luangwa all have WiFi in some pretty remote areas. Like it or not it is the trend for clients to want to keep in touch and for safari operators to keep up on issues and inquiries daily. I recently had a client have some issues in camp and between the client, myself and the safari operator it was worked out. Without the WiFi the safari might have turned out quite differently.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

If the ph is also an outfitter - he has business reasons to be on his phone and communicate with clients, arrange supplies for camp, deal with business/government issues.

The office desk should be in charge of business and any related calls; the outfitter should program his phone to divert incoming calls and give his undivided attention to his clients who have paid for his services.

Failing so, the outfitter should employ sufficient numbers of PHs to do the dirty work while he attends to administrative duties.

Bullsh@t why can't a ph after he is done with his client and on his private time attend to his business.

Undivided attention to a client - is one a professional hunter or professional chaperone.

We need to realize this is a commercial relationship - your ph is not best friend, camp buddy, posse. Someone who drinks whiskey cause you are drinking whiskey and smokes cigars cause you are smoking cigars. He is someone doing a job and you control aspects on his behavior within the context of his job. Not within the context of your vacation.

Mike

Mike,

I agree with Fulvio on this one. One of the big "deals" with the entire Safari experience is the traditions and romance. There is a part of all of us that desire this, you, maybe not.

When I go, I don't want the PH's girlfriend around, his brother in law, no matter how good of a guy he or she may be, it isn't proper and breaks tradition.

A PH chose his profession, not me. He needs to live within those boundaries or choose another profession. When I'm with a customer, he is my only focus. I will turn my phone off or leave it in my truck.

I've never even been in a camp with wifi. It's Africa, not Texas. I don't want wifi or cellular service. I only bring a sat phone to check on my son, whom I worry about while away. I have never called my office. If I'm that worried about shit, I might as well stay in North America.

quote:

Tradition and romance is a marketing pitch nothing more.

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:
Quite frankly if anyone has to run his business 24/7 then they haven't set it up properly. No body is that important in life that they have to be available for their job 24/7. What happens if they have an accident or get seriously ill, does their business fail.
Probably so lucky in much of the area we hunt here is that cell phones do not work. I don't see the point in going off on safari or any hunt anywhere and having to take your job with you, might a well just go to your local zoo and shoot a few animals then you only have to be away from work for couple of hours at most.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:
Quite frankly if anyone has to run his business 24/7 then they haven't set it up properly. No body is that important in life that they have to be available for their job 24/7. What happens if they have an accident or get seriously ill, does their business fail.
Probably so lucky in much of the area we hunt here is that cell phones do not work. I don't see the point in going off on safari or any hunt anywhere and having to take your job with you, might a well just go to your local zoo and shoot a few animals then you only have to be away from work for couple of hours at most.

I will bet you won't see too many ceos of major global corporations go on 21 day safari hunts and never check in.

Most private investment partnerships have a key man clause where if a key man is dead or incapacitated or leaves the partnership has serious existence issues.

I know of at least one person who went of a zero outside world Communication safari in Tanzania In summer of 2008 - came back was told his fund cleared to exists as global events overwhelmed their positions.


Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:
Quite frankly if anyone has to run his business 24/7 then they haven't set it up properly. No body is that important in life that they have to be available for their job 24/7. What happens if they have an accident or get seriously ill, does their business fail.
Probably so lucky in much of the area we hunt here is that cell phones do not work. I don't see the point in going off on safari or any hunt anywhere and having to take your job with you, might a well just go to your local zoo and shoot a few animals then you only have to be away from work for couple of hours at most.

I will bet you won't see too many ceos of major global corporations go on 21 day safari hunts and never check in.

Most private investment partnerships have a key man clause where if a key man is dead or incapacitated or leaves the partnership has serious existence issues.

I know of at least one person who went of a zero outside world Communication safari in Tanzania In summer of 2008 - came back was told his fund cleared to exists as global events overwhelmed their positions.


Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

If the ph is also an outfitter - he has business reasons to be on his phone and communicate with clients, arrange supplies for camp, deal with business/government issues.

The office desk should be in charge of business and any related calls; the outfitter should program his phone to divert incoming calls and give his undivided attention to his clients who have paid for his services.

Failing so, the outfitter should employ sufficient numbers of PHs to do the dirty work while he attends to administrative duties.

Bullsh@t why can't a ph after he is done with his client and on his private time attend to his business.

Undivided attention to a client - is one a professional hunter or professional chaperone.

We need to realize this is a commercial relationship - your ph is not best friend, camp buddy, posse. Someone who drinks whiskey cause you are drinking whiskey and smokes cigars cause you are smoking cigars. He is someone doing a job and you control aspects on his behavior within the context of his job. Not within the context of your vacation.

Mike

Mike,

I agree with Fulvio on this one. One of the big "deals" with the entire Safari experience is the traditions and romance. There is a part of all of us that desire this, you, maybe not.

When I go, I don't want the PH's girlfriend around, his brother in law, no matter how good of a guy he or she may be, it isn't proper and breaks tradition.

A PH chose his profession, not me. He needs to live within those boundaries or choose another profession. When I'm with a customer, he is my only focus. I will turn my phone off or leave it in my truck.

I've never even been in a camp with wifi. It's Africa, not Texas. I don't want wifi or cellular service. I only bring a sat phone to check on my son, whom I worry about while away. I have never called my office. If I'm that worried about shit, I might as well stay in North America.

Tradition and romance is a marketing pitch nothing more.

Does anyone think ph having dinner and making small talk with clients everyday for up to 180 days a year is not part of their job. It's client service not some lure of Africa from buygone years.

I rather hang out in the save where there is cell signal and wifi in camps but elephants and black and white rhinos than some poached out patch of fly in Tanzania. I get what reality is for modern African hunting.

It's your hunt as a client just tell the ph you don't want them on a cell phone during the hunt or in common time. But to mandadate to him he can't ever be on a cell phone during the duration of a hunt is asking a person to be a serf than a professional or regular employee.

Like it or not cell phone are a fact of life. Every one of your trackers, skinner and camp staff has or will have one in the near future.

Don't like wifi in camp don't use it. Don't want other paying clients in camp not to use it - get a
Whole camp to yourself. Don't want your ph to use it during common time - tell him.

But to assume everyone should leave all their business unattended and go enjoys someone else's own subjective view of what is a perfect safari or assume away the utility and existence of the most dominant consumer/computer/communication device of the the last 15 years is wishful thinking. Smart phones will be around for a long time or evolve into an alternative communication device.

Learn to live with the smart phone.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

If the ph is also an outfitter - he has business reasons to be on his phone and communicate with clients, arrange supplies for camp, deal with business/government issues.

The office desk should be in charge of business and any related calls; the outfitter should program his phone to divert incoming calls and give his undivided attention to his clients who have paid for his services.

Failing so, the outfitter should employ sufficient numbers of PHs to do the dirty work while he attends to administrative duties.

Bullsh@t why can't a ph after he is done with his client and on his private time attend to his business.

Undivided attention to a client - is one a professional hunter or professional chaperone.

We need to realize this is a commercial relationship - your ph is not best friend, camp buddy, posse. Someone who drinks whiskey cause you are drinking whiskey and smokes cigars cause you are smoking cigars. He is someone doing a job and you control aspects on his behavior within the context of his job. Not within the context of your vacation.

Mike

Mike,

I agree with Fulvio on this one. One of the big "deals" with the entire Safari experience is the traditions and romance. There is a part of all of us that desire this, you, maybe not.

When I go, I don't want the PH's girlfriend around, his brother in law, no matter how good of a guy he or she may be, it isn't proper and breaks tradition.

A PH chose his profession, not me. He needs to live within those boundaries or choose another profession. When I'm with a customer, he is my only focus. I will turn my phone off or leave it in my truck.

I've never even been in a camp with wifi. It's Africa, not Texas. I don't want wifi or cellular service. I only bring a sat phone to check on my son, whom I worry about while away. I have never called my office. If I'm that worried about shit, I might as well stay in North America.

Tradition and romance is a marketing pitch nothing more.

Does anyone think ph having dinner and making small talk with clients everyday for up to 180 days a year is not part of their job. It's client service not some lure of Africa from buygone years.

I rather hang out in the save where there is cell signal and wifi in camps but elephants and black and white rhinos than some poached out patch of fly in Tanzania. I get what reality is for modern African hunting.

It's your hunt as a client just tell the ph you don't want them on a cell phone during the hunt or in common time. But to mandadate to him he can't ever be on a cell phone during the duration of a hunt is asking a person to be a serf than a professional or regular employee.

Like it or not cell phone are a fact of life. Every one of your trackers, skinner and camp staff has or will have one in the near future.

Don't like wifi in camp don't use it. Don't want other paying clients in camp not to use it - get a
Whole camp to yourself. Don't want your ph to use it during common time - tell him.

But to assume everyone should leave all their business unattended and go enjoys someone else's own subjective view of what is a perfect safari or assume away the utility and existence of the most dominant consumer/computer/communication device of the the last 15 years is wishful thinking. Smart phones will be around for a long time or evolve into an alternative communication device.

Learn to live with the smart phone.

Mike

Mike, I seem to remember an article called "The Client" where the author stated those exact things...

A CEO whom can't leave and has made himself indispensable is a long term liability to any organization and should be fired.

I am one, (actually my partner has that title) and I have nicely made my position one of not needing to be part of everything and micro-managing ever aspect. Granted, we're not a multinational but none the less, I could die at my desk and no one would miss me for days.

In essence, I saw long ago that for me to be able to enjoy my trips, several a year, I had to hand off many of my duties. I have brought along a young man and have mentored him in how I want things done, and have succeeded in that goal. I have built my own freedom and been able to keep my income in doing so.

I use to worry while away A LOT!! I always dreaded that time when I could switch my phone on and begin to digest all the things to fix when I got back. Now, heck like when we got back to Miami from Brazil, I had like three voice mails and most of the important emails were directed elsewhere. It took me longer to delete spam than to deal with issues.

I believe insecure people are the ones who need to stay in communication. If it absolutely needs my attention while I'm gone...too bad, I'm gone.

You have an interesting way of compartmentalizing these things and putting them into boxes that fit your life and your way of dealing with them. Thats fine, thats your way of seeing it. Not everyone see's it that way. A discussion has plenty of room for multiple views.

To add: Why the snipe about my "Poached out Patch of Fly in Tanzania"? I have done far more Safaris than I care to mention, I have had exactly ONE bad one. I fell for an AR Charlatan pitch man's discounted deal. I'll take those odds.

Steve