Old enough to know better.

Jeff

I would say she taught him well!!

Haha, you can see the "oh shit, oh shit" in his eyes. Run Forrest run!!!

FEET DON'T FAIL ME NOW!

Let me be the first to take a stab at the original question asked by Saeed, that of age.......

The fullness of the mane, the darkness of the nose, and drawn out facial features suggests, and I say again "suggests" a lion in the 6/7 year category.

He is certainly in his prime, and lack of visible scars indicates a middle aged animal, which leans me to suggest the age I have submitted.

I think this highlights the difficulty a PH has in establishing whether its a shooter or not. Is this a shooter......hell, yes.

Interested to see all the other Professional guesstimates.

quote:

Originally posted by Neil-PH:
Let me be the first to take a stab at the original question asked by Saeed, that of age.......

The fullness of the mane, the darkness of the nose, and drawn out facial features suggests, and I say again "suggests" a lion in the 6/7 year category.

He is certainly in his prime, and lack of visible scars indicates a middle aged animal, which leans me to suggest the age I have submitted.

I think this highlights the difficulty a PH has in establishing whether its a shooter or not. Is this a shooter......hell, yes.

Interested to see all the other Professional guesstimates.

Looks like a pride male to me and therefore off limits.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Neil-PH:
Let me be the first to take a stab at the original question asked by Saeed, that of age.......

The fullness of the mane, the darkness of the nose, and drawn out facial features suggests, and I say again "suggests" a lion in the 6/7 year category.

He is certainly in his prime, and lack of visible scars indicates a middle aged animal, which leans me to suggest the age I have submitted.

I think this highlights the difficulty a PH has in establishing whether its a shooter or not. Is this a shooter......hell, yes.

Interested to see all the other Professional guesstimates.

Looks like a pride male to me and therefore off limits.

But his pride are different colour??

quote:

Looks like a pride male to me and therefore off limits.

The pictures of the females indicates he is a pride male, or rather is with the females at the moment, so shooting him is debateable.

Why I say debateable - we all know territorial males spend time with prides as well as time away from the prides. If this guy were to bump into hunters on one of his lone sojourns, he would certainly be considered shootable, on the assumption that he is not a pride male.

That's where this should I/shouldn't I, pride/no pride situation becomes a talking point.

I'm no professional.

If I was a PH I would want more time to look at him, while I see signs he's mature, there are a few things that make me want a better look. But since I am not a pro, if the pro said at a glance to shoot, bang. If I was forced to say from that photo, I would say +/-5.

I look at that set of photos and wonder how much artistic license is going on. It looks somewhat photoshopped to me (although that may be my monitor...) The buff seem to be too in focus along with the Lion, and the lighting just seems off (the sun on his back vs. the shadow positioning...)

IMO he is at least 6. From a hunting perspective, that is all that is needed as one doesn't need to estimate whether it is 6 and 1 month or 8 and 4 mths.

If I had to guess it's actual age, i would say between 6.5 and under 8.

Yes he is a pride male and so long as there are no dependant young (lion younger than 1) he could be hunted IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by Neil-PH:

quote:

Looks like a pride male to me and therefore off limits.

The pictures of the females indicates he is a pride male, or rather is with the females at the moment, so shooting him is debateable.

Why I say debateable - we all know territorial males spend time with prides as well as time away from the prides. If this guy were to bump into hunters on one of his lone sojourns, he would certainly be considered shootable, on the assumption that he is not a pride male.

That's where this should I/shouldn't I, pride/no pride situation becomes a talking point.

Neil, I for one am a huge proponent of using the bait method for hunting lion for those very reasons. If one needs more time to assess a particular male for age and pride dynamic, getting that lion on bait allows a greater chance at observing it under relative calm conditions and ticking off all the boxes. A pride will usually come to the same bait (if not actually find the bait before the walk-a- bout male does) or at least offer an opportunity to find signs in the area of the bait site such as cub tracks at the nearest watering point to the bait (Most bait sites are within reasonable distance of a water source), etc, which could tell you all you need to know to make a sound decision.

Some say keeping a lion at a bait site for more than a day/night is risky and impossible. I tend to disagree thinking it isn't impossible. And if you aren't 100% sure and are doing everything you can to determine if the lion is the correct one to shoot from an age and pride perspective and he walks off on the hunting party, well, that's lion hunting for you. We should no longer responsibly hunt a lion that is "marginal" in age (ie, it could be 5.5 or 6 but I'll take the chance anyways and hope for the best from the post mortem age analysis) or from uncertain pride dynamic.

My 0.2 cents

quote:

Neil, I for one am a huge proponent of using the bait method for hunting lion for those very reasons. If one needs more time to assess a particular male for age and pride dynamic, getting that lion on bait allows a greater chance at observing it under relative calm conditions and ticking off all the boxes. A pride will usually come to the same bait (if not actually find the bait before the walk-a- bout male does) or at least offer an opportunity to find signs in the area of the bait site such as cub tracks at the nearest watering point to the bait (Most bait sites are within reasonable distance of a water source), etc, which could tell you all you need to know to make a sound decision.Some say keeping a lion at a bait site for more than a day/night is risky and impossible. I tend to disagree thinking it isn't impossible. And if you aren't 100% sure and are doing everything you can to determine if the lion is the correct one to shoot from an age and pride perspective and he walks off on the hunting party, well, that's lion hunting for you. We should no longer responsibly hunt a lion that is "marginal" in age (ie, it could be 5.5 or 6 but I'll take the chance anyways and hope for the best from the post mortem age analysis) or from uncertain pride dynamic.

Absolutely correct.

Does that mean we should not follow lion tracks and shoot them??

quote:

Does that mean we should not follow lion tracks and shoot them??

Why would you want to shoot lion tracks?

quote:

Originally posted by Neil-PH:

quote:

Does that mean we should not follow lion tracks and shoot them??

Why would you want to shoot lion tracks?

You know what I mean.

Find tracks, follow them and shoot it.

I have done that before all this silly aging which no one seems to agree on came about.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for conservation and shooting only mature lions.

But the sticker is not many people can agree on what age a lion is for sure, unless they pull out its teeth first!

quote:

You know what I mean.

Pulling your chain.

Following tracks, as you suggest, is a great way to hunt them. Invariably you find them (him) laying down, and as per new laws, ageing would be far simpler, opposed to possible low light conditions in a blind.

As time progresses and PH's and clients become more familiar with what are perceived to be older lions, the right call will become a lot easier.

Aren't there some controversy on aging with the teeth? I understand the point of the restrictions but if scientist are having problems accurately aging lion why the age restriction. And why 6? I completely agree with the no pride males. W

Johnny,

You will find all the answers and more in the thread titled African Lion Hunting Management and Ecology under the Conservation Forum on AR.

Good reading!

quote:

Originally posted by Neil-PH:

quote:

You know what I mean.

Pulling your chain.

Following tracks, as you suggest, is a great way to hunt them. Invariably you find them (him) laying down, and as per new laws, ageing would be far simpler, opposed to possible low light conditions in a blind.

As time progresses and PH's and clients become more familiar with what are perceived to be older lions, the right call will become a lot easier .

A Kenny Rodgers lion......

You got to know when to hold 'em,
Know when to fold 'em,
Know when to walk away,
Know when to RUN