A question for those experienced in Africa or better yet living there now. Which country would be best (better?) to live in part time . To buy a small place and live there say, 2 to 4 months a year. With a government no totally nuts and not have to worry about getting your throat slit in the middle of the night.I'm not talking about in a city but a small ranch out a bit. I've been checking some places out in RSA.Any recommendations and contacts in said country would be greatly appreciated.PM or E-mail me to talk in detail if you like. dabosely@quixnet.net Thanks Allen

Of the 20some african countrys I've been to, I'd have a look at Uganda if I were you. A beautiful country and reasonably safe and stable if you stay away from its northern border with south Sudan. Its people are friendly (some of the friendlist in africa if you ask me despite rotten apples in the past like Idi Amin...), its economy is going in the right direction, and it appears that hunting will soon be (or is?) possible again. Seems that they have too many buff! Did I mention that Uganda is probably the best county to see Gorillas, and has lots of wild chimps too ( I personally am not very fond of wild chimps, having had one too many pee on me from up in the trees as some kind of twisted chimp amusment! Not to mention throwing rotting figs on us for fun...).



Uganda was the country were we got the impression that people really want to make things work. It was definatly the country were we felt that getting an education was genuinly valued amongst its citizens. Even young kids "lectured" me on how important this is! Which is a good sign IMO. And then there's the fact that Uganda is rather central in east africa, giving you the possibility to easily visit Tanzania, Kenya, Rwanda (and hopefully DRC and southern Sudan in the not too distant future if you want to be a bit more adventurous!).



Jut my two cents.



Erik D.

One is about as bad as another, but Tanzania, Zambia, and RSA would be my choice....I know a lot of folks that live in Tanzania and they seem to like it....but I would pick RSA for myself, but again they are all 3rd world countries and I would not want to live in any of them myself...I like the good old USA and Idaho....

Allen,



You might consider Botswana. It is very stable politically and doesn't seem to have much crime. I hunted Tanzania with a PH who was from Botswana. He gave me the impression that Botswana was safe and a good place to live.



Regards,



Terry



Botswana Ranches



Botswana Ranches #2

Terry- When you step up and buy one of those properties, I will be happy to emigrate and assist you!

Ray,

I'd think twice before buying property in RSA. Unlike a few other african countrys were things are starting to look better, RSA seems to be heading the wrong way. We've met quite a few farm/ranch owners who were looking into re-settling in countrys such as Uganda and Tanzania. Several were thinking of setting up "fish farming" near Lake Victoria for Tilapia fish. They were fed up with the safety problems in RSA, and told us of family and friends who were basically being forced off their properties after numerous shoot-outs with "burglars"... It was no suprise that politically well connected (ANC) people were always the ones interested in buying them out, and that the police did nothing to help...

Botswana is a good choice for many reasons, but I have gotten the impression that property there has become quite expensive.

Zambia is one of the african countrys I haven't been to (yet!), but I've heard many good things about it, and it might be worth looking into.

Tanzania is also a really great country, but I don't know about property prices there. Maybe Bwanamich can tell us?

Uganda's still on the top of my list.

Erik D.

You can't buy land in Botswana period. 99 year leases only, and then only to citizens. Not sure about residential property.

Zim...forget it. I nearly did a deal but the reality was pretty stark.

You can buy in RSA, not that cheap, although the govt is starting to look at restrictions. Lots of Europeans buy in the Cape, for the spectacular scenery, wonderful summers, and relatively safe living. Plenty have bought "game farms" but there you do run the risk of being murdered in the middle of the night. Farmers are targeted in what some believe is govt sponsored crime to get the whites off the land. Risk is that your ranch will be liberated down the road, under the land claims legislation or some future program.

Namibia is interesting. Undeveloped land is around N$350/hectare. 6.5 N$ to the US$ same as SA Rand. You can only buy through a company, and you must have a local partner (you can't own a majority of the company). I am at present purchasing a share in a 15,000 acre developed property with lodge, high fences, solar-pumps on several boreholes, and stocked with all the pg species including giraffe, black rhino, waterbuck, roan and sable. Local partner is highly reliable and lives adjacent.

If anyone is interested in co-investing in Mamibia, drop me a line. We may be able to work something out, eg 10% ownership blocks with normal shareholder rights attached plus reduced rate hunting. The lodge is available on a weekly rental basis and accommodates 4 persons comfortably. You can stay as long as you like but if you hunt, you must hunt with a PH, legal requirement in Nam as well as most countries.

I would think Namibia by far.

Joel

I was wondering what sort of native game do you get in the wine growing regions? Are there any sort of small wild buck or only smaller game and birds? Thanks.

Good post....approx how much does land cost in Namibia??

Gentlemen,

Phalaborwa is an outdoorsman's dream. It sure can be hot in the summer there though.

I bought a small place in Riebeek-Kasteel, which is about an hour outside Cape Town. It's a beautiful wine and olve-growing area, and has a wonderful small-town feel. Prooperty there is going up in price exponentially, as it is in much of South Africa.

For farm living, I think I'd go with Namibia or Botswana. Keep in mind that in either of those two countries, once you are out of the major cities, you are going to have to be quite self-sufficient. I wouldn't even think about living on a farm in Africa without good mechanical, welding, medical, etc. types of skills.

Be sure to keep us posted on your choice.

Some areas in RSA have security problems, but you could say that about most countries. I live on what is termed a "secure estate" here in White River, and in the 4 years I've been here I have heard of 2 violent crimes......neither of which ended in serious injury......and of the people I know personally from the almost 25 years of kicking around Africa, I can honestly say that I know more people who have been killed by Elephants than been victims of violent crime.

If I was going to leave RSA I would move to Tanzania, Botswana or Mozambique (probably in that order) ......although, from what I've been able to discover, of the three, Tanzania is the most expensive.

All of the three have easier requirements for residency than RSA.

I've only been to South Africa once, but had the opportunity to meet 5 of the PH's that worked for the Safari company, two of which had a security service and only PHed part time. All 5 carried glocks, one of the PH's shot and killed 3 people that attemped to rob a group of hunters shoping afer hunting three weeks before. The owner of the farm and his wife had both been shot in an atempted kidnaping but lived. A lot of talk around the fires at night had to do with farms in the limpopo area getting robbed and owners ruffed up and killed. I'm quite taken with Africa and land with a nice house can be bought very resonable, but I would have to pass on RSA or at least the part I was in.

I'll just go visit and hunt, but I did meet some of the best people I ever met in my life.

I live in Namiba and can't ask much more, the goverment steer things up know and again but it is pretty much calm, RSA is a lott more dangerous, I know I lived there for about 9 years, Botswana seems okay, don't know about the other places and of course Angola is a no buy far

Hi all. Thanks for all the input! Keep it coming.All the info and ideas are really apperciated! Allen

Talk to the PH's or Farmer's wives when you're in RSA. Most are scared to death when their spouse is away.

I know that in the Philippines the Japanese would come over and some people wouldn't sell them land, so they would lease it, and they would put a clause in the lease about to take possession of the land back the owners had to reimburse them for "improvements". Since they could never reimburse the lease would go on basically indefinitely.

just something I thought fit in at this point in the thread.

Red

You may also want to consider Mozambique. They have realized that they screwed up big time after gaining their independence and are begging people to move into the country. I have good friend that has opened up a fishing operation with cabins and such and he says it is an excellent place to live. He is from South Africa and still has a large hunting operation there as well.

I've been living in South Africa since 1976 and I've been carrying a gun (using it from time to time) from my arrival till 1998, when I bought a property in Phalaborwa, Limpopo Province.

I still own guns, and I still pack one when travelling, but I found that in this area the criminality it is so insignificant that carrying a gun it is not really worth the inconvenience.

In my area hunting is plentiful and reasonably priced and you can buy a decent 3 bedrooms house for about 50.000 US$.

For the more affluent people there is also the possibility to build private houses in some Game Reserves bordering the Kruger National Park and situated on the outskirt of town.

You will have to protect your garden from the elephants and some time will be difficult to sleep because of lions making too much noise but, if you can afford it, it is definitively worth about 200.000 US$.

The cost of living here is very low and Phalaborwa (a genuine golfer /hunter paradise) is connected to Johannesburg with a convenient one hour flight.

More informations are available on www.phalaborwa.net. BIG IRON, Urdubob and King Baboon have been here hunting and they liked the place.

You can not buy land in Namibia as a foreigner.
Tanzania and many other African countries are similar.
But hey, get somebody with a passport and let him do the buying. I have one!!!!!!!!!

None of them.........

AD

A residents buffalo permit cost US$26 in Tanzania. If you like big game hunting there is no other option!

If you like superb plainsgame hunting and scenery - Namibia

Russ,



I hope you won't mind me correcting your error about Botswana.........overseas and non residents can, and do buy land in the Tuli Block and I believe a couple of other (smaller) areas. I seem to remember there's an area between Francistown and the border somewhere where one can buy farms.

I don't know in which country I would like to help subsidise the future black owner's investment.

.

Alf,

I had not realized the speed and extent of the Diaspora of white South Africans.

It would be hard for me to leave the land of my birth and identity, but, as you said, we have to care for our families.

I wish it was easier to get RSA doctors certified in the US, we need help in the rural areas of Idaho in a big way.

This reminds me of Czar Stalin. Those intellectuals that he did not kill he deported to Siberia, thus fatally weakening his empire.

JCN

I have several friends who have recently moved from RSA to various countries around the world. Crime is the reason. THe horror stories I hear from these folks always sounds the same. Not isolated instances of violence, serious widespread problem. One of my friend's parents (I know the mother but have never met the father) still live there, as they say they do not want to move in their old age. SHe admits that she is terrified at times, but they just don't want to "leave home".

Some co-workers of mine in one of our FInnish offices went in together and bought a game farm in RSA. One of the men was murdered while out on the ranch. THis happened before I joined the company, so I never met the man. THe othe partners rarely go down there anymore.

Ok, so RSA is NOT the place to hang out! So I've narrowed my focus on Nambia first Botswana second. Open to any and all info on these two. I'm thinking about leasing a small farm for a while.This is not for a busnes this is my place to use use as base to just enjoy Africa. Thanks, Allen

oops forgot to proof read my post how embarrassing

To make it short.
One have to pick a free-market country, where the law is obeyed.
ErikD is right, Uganda seems to be the best candidate.

I'll throw in my two cents worth. I lived in the Central African Republic for three years, Burkina Faso for three years, Djibouti for 5 years and Madagascar for 3 years. I now spend, on business, about 3 months per year in Tanzania, Uganda, Kenya and Ethiopia. I wouldn't pick a former French colony if you don't speak french and besides, most of the former french colonies are high priced because the currency is pegged to the Euro.

Tanzania has the best hunting possibilities and animal tax prices for residents. It seems like its free when you shell out your 10,000 TSH for Mbogo. By the way, I believe several species are not available on resident permits. I think lion, leopard, elephant and even some antelope are restricted to expatriate safari hunters under present game laws. You would want to make good friends with the Regional Game Warden to get invited on culling or problem animal hunts. Also, Tanzania has no significant tribal strife nor major political problems. On the down side, I don't find Dar to be an especially interesting city, it isn't close to the hunting areas, and living in the bush isn't something you improvise. A suitable "ranch" may be hard to find, whether rented or on a 99 year lease. If I wanted to be "not too far" from a reasonable city I would pick Arusha for its climate and scenery. There are some hunting areas which are good just south of the Serengeti but you are a long way from the Selous.

I would rule out Uganda because there is no hunting at present and the best hunting areas, in the north, are not secure. As for free market capitalism, I would advise significant research with a local partner before doing any revenue generating activity in any African country if you haven't done it before. Almost all these countries are glad to take your money, as much as they can get. This includes customs officials, tax inspectors, labor inspectors, landlords, and just about everyone you will meet in any of these countries. There is a great old saw in former French colonies, "The only way to come back from Africa with a small fortune is to go there with a big one".

I'll throw in my longshot: Ethiopia. Ethiopian Airlines is the best regional carrier by far with frequent reasonably priced flights to all of the East African countries. Hunting is legal in Ethiopia with some good areas near the Sudanese, Ugandan, Somali and Kenyan borders. English is the working language for foreign firms working there and is fairly widely spoken (although outside of Addis you will be lucky to find English outside of traders). However, if you are dreaming of the "Out of Africa" lifestyle, that won't be the case in Ethiopia, it just doesn't resemble East or Southern Africa.

My African living experience is restricted pretty much to Kenya and Tanzania although I have visited briefly other countries.

Kenya, as mentioned by someone else abopve, does not allow hunting; however, if you own a ranch which contains wildlife, you are allowed to "cull" certain species. Still too much restrictions for my taste!

Tanzania, like all other 3rd World countriess, has its problems when it comes to doing business; corruption is rampant and red tape sometime frustrating to the point of driving one to drink! However, there are many more pluses than minuses; Resident hunting is extremely cheap. There are restrictions on species one may hunt on a standard resident license but Mbogo, impala, eland, gazelles, wildebeest, hartebeest, reedbuck, bushbuck and others are allways available! Not sure for how long this will remain as there is tremendous pressure from commercial hunting outfitters to close down resident hunting! A poorly managed resident industry that produces hardly any revenue for Gov or local communities cannot compete with the Tourist hunting industry and communal hunting blocks will eventually be totally allocated to commercial outfitters.

This will mainly affect the Northern hunting areas around Masaailand. Communal hunting areas around the selous ain't that great with the majority of them being heavily poached. The introduction of Village Management areas whereby local communitites will have more say in the resource utilisation of their lands may save these areas from total devastation but for that to succeed, the menatlity fo the common man needs to change. and that can take several generations!

The people are friendly, helpful, hospitable, non violent, especially in rural areas with town folks being as described by ErikD in one of his earlier posts.

By far the most pleasant climate is around Arusha. Land can be very cheap or ridiculously expensive but all is "leased" from the government. As a foreigner, one can only own land for commercial purposes which means you can't buy land and build a house. But there are ways around that too

I am happy here and intend to live here until they throw me out or bury me, whichever comes first.

In the meantime, I am busy planning a weekend hunt for Grant, tommy, wildebeest and impala. Expected cost of trip $150

Happy hunting!

Hi,

Well I would cross Ethiopia off the list if you like big game hunting....

There is a long list of game that is off limits for residents, but the law means very little at all when it takes a LOT of patience (3 weeks) to get a simple warthog permit. Mostly, the residents shoot snipe and other upland game. Also not the most pleasant capital city in africa, by any stretch of the imagination...

Boghossian,

Although I think Ethiopia has many good qualitys, being a beautiful country, another downside that I'd keep in mind if thinking of buying property there is that many Ethiopians are not too fond of foreigners compaired to locals in other nearby countrys. At least in my experiance. And the experiance of many people I know who have spent time there.

I still stick to Uganda as being the best choice at the moment. Especially if Tanzania is thinking of changing the resident hunting laws, while Uganda is opening them up (besides the fact that land owners can hunt on their own land in Uganda. At least they could a year ago.)

Erik D.