Gentlemen,

I have searched the forum but haven't really found what I 'm looking for in regards to this form. My booking agent is asking for a copy of it.

I was under the impression that this something that I could download but now understand that it is not.

Do you I need to drag all of my guns, scopes, cameras, binos, etc to a port of entry and have customs fill out this form? Can this be done at the airport prior to departure? I am confused . Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Andy

You can download the form and fill it out but it has to be stapmed at the Customs and Border Protection office where they are supposed to compare the information on the form with what is on the original articles. Do not take your rifles in until you go in first and tell them what you want to do.

I put each rifle/scope combo on its own form and then cameras and other optics on another form.

quote:

Originally posted by Charles_Helm:
You can download the form and fill it out but it has to be stapmed at the Customs and Border Protection office where they are supposed to compare the information on the form with what is on the original articles. Do not take your rifles in until you go in first and tell them what you want to do.

I put each rifle/scope combo on its own form and then cameras and other optics on another form.

Do they normally have an office at the airport?

Why does the government always have to be such a pain in the ass .

Depends on the size of the airport.

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Depends on the size of the airport.

We're flying out of Atlanta. I'm wondering if we can just arrive at the airport early the day of departure.

I just found out via a phone call to US Customs. I have to drag everything down to their office which is near the airport. What a bunch of bullshit .

I would certainly get my 4457 Forms before the day of my departure. Get on the internet for US Customs indicating your location, city and state or try yellow pages or go direct to www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/toolbox/contacts/ports. One or all of these will get you to your closet custom office locations.

Yes, it's bullshit but you need to thank your booking agent for alerting you to the need for one, at least for your rifles. If you try to come back into the US without one, you'll really find out what bullshit is......

I had to go to the Sacramento Airport a week before I left. Their office was only open 3 days a week.

Also be sure to bring and claim every on it. Binos, cameras, video cameras, laptop…

adrook,

The office I have gone to in the past is not at the airport but it close by, I do not have the exact address. The two times I have been once they checked all the serial numbers and the second they just stamped the form without looking at anything. Be sure to leave your guns in your vehicle, the time they checked them they went out to my vehicle and checked them there.

quote:

Originally posted by adrook:
Should I fill out the forms before I go and take them with me. Is that the drill?

I have, you have to fill it out anyway, they just stamp and sign it.

quote:

Originally posted by David Culpepper:
adrook,

The office I have gone to in the past is not at the airport but it close by, I do not have the exact address. The two times I have been once they checked all the serial numbers and the second they just stamped the form without looking at anything. Be sure to leave your guns in your vehicle, the time they checked them they went out to my vehicle and checked them there.

Thanks David,

That's exactly what they told me on the phone.

Andy

Call before you go so that someone is available. Usually, the office is minimally manned. Once you have the form stamped, for that particular item, you are good to go from then on. Only have to do it once per item! That's why the advice to list each rifle on a separate form is very good. Every time I've had to go to the offices, they have been easy to deal with. The forms are sometimes used by customs people in foreign countries, too, so make multiple copies. Seems to work well when they ask for a piece of paper you've never even heard of before.

It's actually not a bad idea to make several copies and laminate the original. That way it will hold up through multiple trips. Be aware that customs agents are the typical civil servants, no two react the same. Sometimes they want everything on one form, other times they want seperate forms Some times they want every item listed (binos, cameras, etc.), sometimes they only want the guns. The good news is that most foreign agents accept the 4457 as being official proof of ownership and I have NEVER been asked to show my 4457 and have never been asked to open my gun case when returning to the US.

I had to drive a 216 mile round trip to Fresno last month and I could only get it done between 9 AM and Noon and 1PM to 4 PM. I was told to not bring the guns themselves into the office, just the forms.

Call the customs office before you go to see how they want to do it.

quote:

I had to drive a 216 mile round trip to Fresno last month and I could only get it done between 9 AM and Noon and 1PM to 4 PM.

I will complain no more about having to drive 40 miles to the airport to get this form .

What all these guys said.

Having the form makes it easier to get into your country of choice, and (if requested by US Customs) ensures a smooth return to the US.

If you ever go to Canada, they'll require that form as proof of ownership to get in.

andy, the phone number for the office in Atlanta is 678-284-5900 they can answer the questions that you have.

One other alternative is if you have the bill of sale from when you purchased the rifles, they will do to show ownership prior to leaving the country and that is what it is all about. I have to drive about 100 miles to the nearest custom office. When I purchased my last two rifles (which may go out of the country) I have the sales slips.

My last two trips I used my Tuffpac and was just motioned thru with my - golf clubs.

The above is good for returning to the US which is what the form is for, but now RSA accepts a copy for proof of ownership, which it does not really do as I have never been ask by customs if the weapons listed of the form are mine. Of course you must remember RSA is africa.

I have never been ask to show proof of ownership in Namibia or Zim. when entering and getting the necessary permits. ?

I drug all of my stuff into the entrance of the airport to the Custom's office....luckily I didn't have to go to Orl Intern'l as that's a PITA. I was able to go to the Sanford airport...they have a customs office there. They made me take them in and visually inspected both rifles. Then they couldn't find the correct stamp, so they just stamped it with the "Homeland Security" stamp.
This is the 2nd time I've gotten 4457's and it's been the same method both times.

Zambia requires you to show the 4457 according to Laura Duplooy....and I know that's where you're going.

I'm assuming you're booked straight thru to Lusaka???...if not you have to deal with SA paperwork.....real fun...and have a $20 handy....they seem to like that greasy feeling on their palms....at least on my trips they did.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

quote:

Originally posted by GarBy:
I drug all of my stuff into the entrance of the airport to the Custom's office....luckily I didn't have to go to Orl Intern'l as that's a PITA. I was able to go to the Sanford airport...they have a customs office there. They made me take them in and visually inspected both rifles. Then they couldn't find the correct stamp, so they just stamped it with the "Homeland Security" stamp.
This is the 2nd time I've gotten 4457's and it's been the same method both times.

Zambia requires you to show the 4457 according to Laura Duplooy....and I know that's where you're going.

I'm assuming you're booked straight thru to Lusaka???...if not you have to deal with SA paperwork.....real fun...and have a $20 handy....they seem to like that greasy feeling on their palms....at least on my trips they did.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

Gary,

We change planes in Jburg. Couldn't get the direct to Lusaka flight. You are correct, Laura is asking for the form.

You're leaving pretty soon aren't you?

Andy

I have never had to show my 4457 until I returned from my last trip. The customs agent in Seattle said they have been instructed to confiscate firearms if you cannot provide proof of ownership. I was glad I had it with me.

I filled out the 4457 after I downloaded it from their website. I printed it and cut it to approximately the same size as an original and took several guns to their office (1 hour away).
They asked me to bring everyone of them into the building so they could inspect them and match serial numbers. Check with them to see what days and times an officer is there. I describe the rifle and just put "with scope", because I frequently change my mind about scopes. That didn't bother them and it went smoothly. I make color copies and have one in the gun case, checked baggage, and carry on bag.
The color copies can pass for the original if you get in a bind. They don't examine them that close at the airports.

I have seen this change over the years. A few years ago the drill involved taking the guns in the office but the last few years they specifically do not want them in the building. They do retain the option of coming out and inspecting them and upon returning from Zim in June for the first time ever the agent asked for the form on arrival in
atlanta. He was nice enough and expeditious, just remember they have all the options. Adrian

quote:

they have been instructed to confiscate firearms if you cannot provide proof of ownership

He may indeed have said that, but if he did there's a great chance for a class action suit.

Although RSA and some other places accept them as proof of ownership, what they actually document is that you are not trying to import an item into the USA without paying duty on it. That's why the actual title of the document is "Registration of Items taken Abroad" or something similar.

My usual safari partner and I have several sets of 4457s on our travelling guns, with the same guns in my name, in his name, and in both names.

We use the one most effective for what we're trying to do at the time.

Also, my advice is to put only one item on each form. Doing 20 forms costs the same as doing 2. That way you never have to explain to the Customs man where the "other stuff on the form" is. Of course, that's a misinterpretation of the intent of the form also; nothing says you have to bring the stuff back.

Just my rant of the day....

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
I was told to not bring the guns themselves into the office, just the forms.

Unbelievable. The form is "Proof of Ownership" and they didn't want to see the guns that you are asking them to certify that you own?

What is the use then?

Oh .. I see, you were in Fresno. Well, now that makes perfect sense.

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
I was told to not bring the guns themselves into the office, just the forms.

Unbelievable. The form is "Proof of Ownership" and they didn't want to see the guns that you are asking them to certify that you own?

What is the use then?

Oh .. I see, you were in Fresno. Well, now that makes perfect sense.

Wendell,

They told me the same thing on the phone here in Atlanta. Makes a lot of sense doesn't it?

Andy

Ridiculous.

The 4457 is meant to stop you from bringing back a gun into the US that you didn't leave with.

If you don't have to physically prove that you have the gun, what use is a stamped "Proof of ownership" going to do?

Over-protection and political correctness at it's finest.

Every dealing I've had with US Customs has been different. Iv'e actually been able to deal with a couple of guys that were hunters. Big difference in their attitude. On the other hand I had one guy on my return through Atlanta ask me a bunch of questions about my extra sighted in scope for my one rifle. He could not get his head around the idea that there was not another rifle somewhere. Another guy will let you send him the firearms info and he wills end you a stamped 4457. You just have to bite your lip and do whatever your told.

Mark

adrook

I have made 3 trips to Zim, through Joberg, staying a few days in Joberg each time.
Here is what I recommend.


Take any of your guns to customs that you might take on future trips.

Put each gun on a seperate 4457. Also list scope and serial number of the scope as well.

This way when you get to Africa each rifle will have its own forum, and on future trips if you take a different gun it to will have its own form. It confused the Africans less, and US Customs upon your return as well.

Put ALL your bino,s cameras and anything else [watches etc.] of value that has a serial number on a seperate forum.

This forum is to prove that you are not bringing any expensive items back from abroad.

Make multiple copies of the 4457's.
Leave one copy at home. Keep the originals with you. Give COPIES to the Africans.

Have copies of your Drivers License, any concealed carry permits you have, your passport, letter of invitation, letter of intent etc. in your carry on.

The "gun officials" have always been polite, but on my last trip, when I pulled my double rifle out at SAPS in Jo' berg, the "inspector" said to me...

"OH! You cannot have THAT it is an AUTOMATIC.!!

I politely explained how the double rifle worked, and everything went fine.
They did not even take a second look at my handgun.

quote:

"OH! You cannot have THAT it is an AUTOMATIC.!!

Dang son, a double barreled aoutomatic!

I got's to get me one of them!

The last two time I have been to Tucson International they have run each firearm thru a computer check against some data base. They ALWAYS asked to see the firearms but it makes sense the don't have to they are only verifying on the 4457 that what is described theron you had posession of when you took it OUT of the country and you certify you are the owner.

Two trips to RSA through Jo'berg and each time
the "police" have asked to see the 4457 Forms. One person ahead of me did not have a 4457 form for a rifle or proof of purchse, they would not process his paper work. Not sure what was the final outcome. When we left he was still sittig there.

quote:

they have run each firearm thru a computer check against some data base

Is this check something new. They have never done it in Atlanta when I did my forms in 2003 and 2005.

zimbabwe

Most likely they are running the serial number through NCIC, checking to see if the firearm is stolen.

This will usually not cause you a problem, unless....

Say, a Remington has been stolen with the same serial number as your Holland and Holland double....

Being of a different brand and calibre, it still should not matter...

But you never know how the officials will "judge the data".

Also some Customs offices are running the guns on NCIC.

There was a thread here on AR where a double rifle was siezed, for a while, under those circumstances.
One reason to get your 4457's early.

Andy...yes, I leave on the 23rd. Getting the final goodies put together. PM me when you get a chance and we'll swap phone numbers....just found out an interesting thing that you'll find when you get your firearms permit from Laura.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

Gary,

Check your PMs.

Andy

I've hunted Canada SEVERAL times (at least 12) and have never been asked for the form. I filled one out for South Africa last year and was not asked for the form.

For Canada, wouldn't the firearms paperwork prove you took the rifle in to Canada? Meaning you could just show the US side your completed firearms paperwork upon returning???

The form is NOT to prove anything to the foreign government, but instead proof of ownership for coming back into our country.

I am going Caribou hunting in a couple of weeks and hadn't thought about the form until I read this thread. I think I'll just dig up some receipts and go.

archer

Several countries accept the US form 4457 as proof of being legaly able to, possess in your home Country, and being lawfully able to travel out of your country, with guns instead of requiring forums from the police or the government, from your country of origin as they do from some other places.

So for the hunter traveling to, or through South Africa, it serves more than just one purpose.

It's been several years since I had to fool with the 4457 (because I haven't been to Africa since '04), but back then I noticed there was only one copy of the 4457. The original (only copy) was given right back to the traveler after signing by the Customs officer. There were no firearms checks or records taken that I saw.

Not that I'm admitting to anything... but it seems like if other guns were to appear also written in the blank space of the form for subsequent trips it could sure save a fellow a long drive to the airport. A good quality color copier can do wonders.

Obviously if the system has changed to require copies or firearms checks this wouldn't work.

Kyler