Would someone please give me a brief overview of how this process works. I've looked at their website and it is quite hard to understand. The people at the Fish and Wildlife Dept are the consumate bureaucrats. Outfitters tell me one thing, hunters another.

Help. Keith

What animals are you thinking you will need a CITES for and in which country? This make a huge difference as the process is different depending on how "threatened" the animal is thought to be.

Jason

As has been said, it depends on the animal. What makes it doubly complicated is that there are species out there for which a country issue a CITES permit and (even though the US is a "CITES country") the US will still not allow importation due to the species being covered by other legislation! AAARGH!



Best of Luck,



JohnTheGreek

What makes it trebly complicated is that some countries have quotas for certain species where a CITES licence is not required and after they reach that figure they have to get the CITES licences.

The good news is that assuming you book with good Outfitter he will know the situation for that particular species and that particular country at that particular time...... he'll also get the CITES export licences for your animals and then all you need to do is get the CITES import licence for your country of residence.

So the first thing you need to do is select a country you want to hunt in, then choose an outfitter and discull which species you want to hunt........There's also the fact that you will need (non CITES) export licences and vet clearances for all trophies you hunt, but your outfitter (assuming he's operating above board) will get these for you.

Bet you wish you had never asked!

Actually, you have 2 to deal with--an export CITES from the country you are hunting (usually not too difficult and PH/outfitter normally takes care of it). Second is the import CITES for the US (assuming you are a US hunter). This one is often much more hassle, and sometimes you can easily get the export but can't get the import. The US import part is the bitch.

I've got to say that I don't understand the US attitude to this at all. Mozanbique for example are quite happy to issue a CITES export licence for an Elephant shot there, yet the hunter cannot get a CITES import licence for it.....where's the logic in that!!!

To confuse things even more if the Elephant trophies are sent to a taxidermist in RSA it appears to be no problem for the US to issue a CITES import licence for the same animal.

There is no logic at all to find! The basic problem is that our issueing body, the USF&G, is mostly anti-hunting and guided heavily by greenie and anti-hunting influences.

I didn't know that. I always thought they were pretty pro hunting like our various Parks Boards over here.

...... but surely as government employees they're bound to comply with government regulations and not allow personal opinions to influence their work?

I guess not.

Steve,

The situation is particularly annoying to me since the US is a "CITES country". If the US had planned to pick and choose when to accept and when to ignore CITES quotas, why the hell bother? Namibian cheetah is a prime example of this (not to mention the Wood Bison that I have had stuck in Canada for the last two years).

Arts,

The problem is often that the USFWS is sometime hog-tied by other legislation (namely the ESA) and its interpretation of this act in particular is guided by tradition. Currently, there is a movement to explicitly change the way the USFWS looks at importation issues but, as usual, change is slow.

Best,

JohnTheGreek

Oh, they'll basically about half-assed follow the "law", but the law says nothing about expediency, so it can take months, literally, in some cases, years, for them to get to it. Also, as mentioned, there are some other regs that they are able to use to hogtie the whole process whenever they choose to. To be honest, they are able to use loophole type regs to inject their personnal bias.

Keith,

I have found the U.S. Fish and Wildlife agents to be very helpful when I have had questions regarding my clients' trophies. Fish and Wildlife was kind enough to supply me with the following CITES applications:



Import of sport-hunted trophies of argali

Import of sport-hunted polar bear trophies

Import of sport-hunted bontebok trophies

This one application is listed as Import of sport-hunted trophies of southern African leopard,African elephant, and Namibian white rhinoceros.

Reissuance or renewal of a permit or certificate



If you or any other AR member needs a blank application send me an e-mail.



They also gave me the list of species,approved countries, and required permit.



Kathi



kathi@wldtravel.com

All,

http://international.fws.gov/permits/dmapermits.html

Here is a page from the USFWS web site that has links to fact sheets and applications for import and export. There are also a few links to pages that will tell you what does and does not require an import permit.

Good luck,

JohnTheGreek

John, I thought you would be hitting all the discos in Cairo about now. Hope all is well.

Hi Dan,

All is well, thank you! I don't have to be in Cairo until the end of August. I'm going to see if I can get there a couple of weeks early and then head up to Crete for an Olympic event or two. Are you heading to Chewore North for that cow ele hunt?

Best,

JohnTheGreek

I will spend the first part of my hunt on humani then on to chewore north. I am not sure how the split of days between the 2 will work. Dad will hunt humani and I will pop ellie and jerry there, then on to chewore for an as-yet unspecified number of additional ellie. I can't wait.

Do you think I should load the ammo now, or wait to the last minute so that it will be fresh?

What people have said is correct. There is an export permit from the country and an import permit from the US. Some countries will export, but we won't permit import of the animal notwithstanding CITES.

You go to the web site and download the particular permit application (mine was for Bontebok), you fill in the particulars and provide the USFWD with the required documentation from the country in which the animal was taken or will be taken. Then you forward it to USFWD with the fee (don't forget the fee like I did), and wait.

I found the folks there to be very helpful and extremely nice. It just takes time. If you have questions, call them. A good taxidermist should have their numbers.

If I were going after something that was extremely costly, I'd want to get my permit before I went-a-huntin'. However, the permits are only good for a limited period of time (mine was a year), then you must re-apply.

If you shoot an animal that requires a CITES permit, you can apply "retroactively" but I would hate to have three K in a Cheetah and find out I can't get a permit. (And I don't think you can get permits for this animal.)

Again, the fellow I dealt with was extremely helpful and just as nice as he could be. Ku-dude