I recently reported on another thread that my client had just killed a very big Elephant in Tanzania. It has been weighed, it came out 70 x 68.

Now, that is a big Elephant anywhere, but for Tanzania, that is exceptional.

My main point of this thread was to compare Tanzania Elephant and the numbers of big ivory shot in different timeframes. (Well, that and to brag a bit )

I was curious to see how many Elephant over 140 lbs (total weight) were entered in the SCI record book from Tanzania. I am kind of a statistics buff, so I looked.

I know entries in the book do not reflect accurate harvest, but it does give you an idea what is relative.

From 1985 to present (20 years) there have only been 2 Elephant out of Tanzania that were over 140 lbs total weight that were entered into the SCI book. Both were entered in 1994. One was shot on Kilimanjaro (Geoff Broom), the other in the Selous (TAWICO).

From 80-85 (only 5 years), there were 12 Elephant entered in Tanzania that exceeded the 140lb mark.

I did not compare late 70's entries, but I would believe you would find that there was a drastic decline in big ivory after '85 in Tanzania.

Interesting.

Congrats to you and your client!!

Thanks Bwana, but what made me post it was the numbers I saw in the recordbook for Tanzania Elephant and the peak and decline in big Ivory taken out of Tanzania.

I did a little more comparison ....

- There are 27 Elephant of 140lbs or more entered from Tanzania.

Areas
- 20 of these are from the Selous
- 3 are from Rungwa
- The others are either unidentified or from various concession that do not have more than one entry.

Dates
2000's - 0
1990's - 2
1980's - 12
1970's - 7
1960's -7
1950's - 1
None entered before that.

SCI was formed in the early 70's, so entries from before 1970 are not apt to be included. It was possible to include them, it was just unlikely.

Pretty interesting.

Now other Elephant stats.

Of the top 10,

CAR - 4
Ethiopia - 4
Tanzania - 1
Kenya - 1

CAR, Kenya and Ethiopia dominate the top 30 with very few other countries being represented. Ethiopia representing 11 of those, all of which were in the 80's.

Interesting data. I wouldn't have thought that many big tuskers had survived into the '80s.

Poaching, and elephant poaching in particular, was rampant in Tanzania during the period from 1973-78 when all hunting was banned.

Although I realize your post was a call to apply statistical analysis to elephant hunting in East Africa, I just want to reiterate:

Congratulations to the lucky hunter and all associated with this achievement!

Wendell,

Do you have any idea as to what percentage of jumbos taken are entered into the book? More specifically, what percentage taken that qualify for the book are entered?

Wendell,

Did you think of comparing your data with the start of the world-wide ivory ban? I suspect there may be a correlation.

Wendell,
Just for information and fun and games, Judge G and Pierre van Tonder saw that same elephant with two other very decent elephant year before last...Judge G posted a picture of him as I recall.. He was seen in our neighboring concession last year..I also cut his sign last year on the boundry road..Talked to some hunters and Harpeet Bar that saw him also last year...None of us had a license for elephant btw....I am assuming it is the same elephant, almost has to be..Most of us guessed him a 80 lbs. on the heavy side and 75 on the light side. The two with him were guessed at about 55 to 60 and 50,50....I did hear that he had been shot by a hunter this year, guess thats him. He was in that near roadless concession most of the time..Next to where we hunted with Saeed last year..Can't find my Selous map but seems it was LU-5 where he mostly hung out...

It is a straight report of Elephant entered into the book. No relation to laws, wars, ivory bans or color of my undershorts or any other variable was made.

Ray,

This Elephant was shot in Kigosi, Western Tanzania.

Dang Ray! That Elephant must have had some long legs to walk that far! Sorry, couldn't resist!

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
Thanks Bwana, but what made me post it was the numbers I saw in the recordbook for Tanzania Elephant and the peak and decline in big Ivory taken out of Tanzania.

I did a little more comparison ....

- There are 27 Elephant of 140lbs or more entered from Tanzania.

Areas
- 20 of these are from the Selous
- 3 are from Rungwa
- The others are either unidentified or from various concession that do not have more than one entry.

Dates
2000's - 0
1990's - 2
1980's - 12
1970's - 7
1960's -7
1950's - 1
None entered before that.

SCI was formed in the early 70's, so entries from before 1970 are not apt to be included. It was possible to include them, it was just unlikely.

Pretty interesting.

Now other Elephant stats.

Of the top 10,

CAR - 4
Ethiopia - 4
Tanzania - 1
Kenya - 1

CAR, Kenya and Ethiopia dominate the top 30 with very few other countries being represented. Ethiopia representing 11 of those, all of which were in the 80's.

Dang, I wonder how many of those big boys were taken with a 45-70!

Sorry Wendell, I couldn't resist!

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
Dang, I wonder how many of those big boys were taken with a 45-70!

by a 45-70

Wasnt Geoff Brooms elephant shot by Darrel Mitchel l after it wandered in from Kenya?? Thats why there is a no hunting buffer in effect along sections of the Kenya border. Russ Broom and a lady client shot one 82 X seventy something last year on tribal land in Zimbabwe. Im suprised Zimbabwe consistantly produces bigger ivory than Tanzania considering the relative accesability of Zimbabwe hunting areas.

quote:

Originally posted by gunny:
Wasnt Geoff Brooms elephant shot by Darrel Mitchel l after it wandered in from Kenya??

The one in the book was shot by Utz Rittmeier.

Maybe Darrel shot one here too.

Like I said the book is not a complete record. I am just using it for comparisons sake.

Glad to hear the elephant Ray was talking about may still be alive. I want to hunt him with Pierre in 2006!

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I did hear that he had been shot by a hunter this year...

Sorry Scott! Maybe you will have to settle for his little partner with only about 50 lbs/side.

Poor you

I Know of at least 6 or more elephants that had 60lbs - 100 lbs per tusk shot in tanzania in the last 4-5 years. Quite a number are not entered in the record books..... still, a 70 lbs elephant is a super trophy - epeially out of TZ as the tusks are likely to be long and simetrical as opposed to short and stubby asthose found in Bots and Namibia.
Would love to see some pictures.....

Yes, in March of 1986 we took an elephant that was over 140 lbs.....each side

Rich Elliott

Rich,

I noticed that your group was responsible for a lot of the entries. Sorry, I should have given you more credit. it is quite impressive. Well done!

Bwanamich,

I wish I could get the official records from Tanzania, to see what has been taken in the past 20 years. Knowing that the SCI book is not a complete record.

The tusks were about 6' and 18" in circumference. Fat for Tanzania ivory. As soon as I can get my hands on a photo, I will post it.

Wendell,
Thanks
The hunter was a Swizz/Italian Fellow. He shot the big elephant with an Over/Under .45-70 as I recall.
Rich Elliott

quote:

Originally posted by Rich Elliott:
Wendell,
Thanks
The hunter was a Swizz/Italian Fellow. He shot the big elephant with an Over/Under .45-70 as I recall.
Rich Elliott

SEE! I told you guys!

Aw jeez ... here we go again ...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
Aw jeez ... here we go again ...



Sean

quote:

Originally posted by Rich Elliott:
Wendell,
Thanks
The hunter was a Swizz/Italian Fellow. He shot the big elephant with an Over/Under .45-70 as I recall.
Rich Elliott

"500gr cast bullet w/ 55grs BP - Fellow was a little bit recoil sensitive. Made a 230 yd shoot, off hand in the driveng rain after running about a mile."

SBT,
Sorry ole buddy, the one I'm talking about was shot last year in LU5 I think...It was the one Judge Ernest and Pierre saw the year before that..

Fore warned is forearmed. There will be another. I know Pierre will do his best to try and find it. However, I know this is hunting and that is how I like it!

SBT,
In the meantime pray like hell to the Red Gods and the huntress Diana!!