Hi. Please forgive my ignorance. I am planning a plains game hunt in 2005. How many outfitters offer hunts on "open range"? Are many hunts behind a fence on a ranch? What would be considered the minimum acreage(or square mile) that you personally would be willing to hunt? I do understand that some of these ranches are so vast that it is a moot point if there is a fence. I guess what I am saying is that if I go to Africa to hunt African wildlife I don't want to feel like I am on an exotic game ranch in Texas. Your thoughts please... Thanks. Roger

Roger, Where in Africa?

RAC,

North Americans including myself are at least initially repulsed by the idea of game being confined for shooting. The reality is that on most of the first class operations the fence will become irrelevant shortly after you start your hunt. You will discover that some animals will easily jump the fence and others will go under it with no problem.

The fence does keep animals in but it also keeps poachers and local hunters out and defines the boundary of the property.

There are ranch hunts or plains game only hunts on unfenced properties and they are "Wilder". These hunts will not produce the variety or density of game that the large fenced properties will produce though.

On a good ranch hunt you will feel like you are on a real hunt and not a shoot. These are the types of facilities we try to represent. Our ranch hunts are conducted on properties of about 25,000 acres all the way to nearly a million acres. We can offer these hunts in Namibia, South Africa and Zimbabwe and taylor a hunt to your budget.

If you would like more information please contact me anytiime.

Regards,

Mark

In most all instances african fenced ranch hunts are only a perceived problem in some hunters eye's, in reality the hunting is fair chase ... A lot of the negative connotations associated with fenced hunting comes from trying to equate it to some of the [ smaller TX ranches ] and the adverse publicity in recent years about canned hunting of Lions in SA in particular.



There are some hunters as well whom will under no circumstances hunt a fenced ranch, that is their perogitive and no matter what you tell them they will not budge, that is fine as it is freedom of choice



Peter

RAC,

It will be very easy for your to avoid fences if you hunt Tanzania or Zimbabwe. Most, but not all, of South Africa and Namibia are fenced. Best to inquire in detail before booking.

There is a perception that in Africa there is wall-to-wall game. Well, that isn't true. I don't think that a hunt within a fence is necessarily a bad thing, as the game density is usually significantly greater than in the wilds. In the big game areas, plainsgame has to survive lions, leopards, hyenas, wild dogs, etc., ect.



I made the mistake of taking my son-in-law to a big game area on his first Africa hunt. The impala were so spooky that they ran at sight, regardless of how many yards away that were at the moment.



I think especially for a first hunt that hunting a fenced, high game populated ranch is a good thing. You will see more game in a day than in 10 days in a big game area, and you will have the chance of getting all the blood lust out of your system by being able to shoot everything your budget will allow.

NitroX,

Nothing you have said has changed my mind!

It is one thing to see an impala running 65 mph at 250 yards on your 15th safari, but it is another on your first. I would still rather shoot the crap out of everything on four legs on my first safari and get philosophical about it the next time around.

I have seen impala you could have hit with a rock on both types of areas but I think a "good" fenced area is still a good idea the first time around.

I guess I might be too greedy, but I have no desire to travel all that way and spend all that money to come empty handed and profess that I didn't get a damn thing but had a really "quality hunt."

"Quality hunts" don't buy much at the grocery store.

Hunted in the eastern cape o RSA..The ranch was close to 200K acres...the animals were free roaming they could go under 3 strands of wire or jump it just like in the USA.. As far as I could see in any direction I could hunt and I was the only one there...With the exception of my wife, and Ph, and he animals....



Mike

May be it can be clarified what one hunts on a "ranch" in SA.I am of the ideation that one hunts game that has been purchased and placed onto these "hunting ranches",rather than "native " game.Is that mostly true? thanks

Thank you for your comments. As African hunting is new to me I am trying to get opinions and info from every aspect. I can already tell that there is no way to know everything before I go. Please bear with me.

I hunted on cattle ranches in Zimbabwe of 100,000 and 320,000 acres. The larger one was segmented into over 110 areas by cattle fences. They were 2 strand fences about 3 1/2 feet high. They were more likely to keep us out than the animals in! The smaller property was similarly set up however the one side of the property had 10 foot electified fencing as the adjoining property was a rhino "farm".

In a days hunting we might hunt within 4-8 of these areas covering 5000 to 20,000 acres roughly. I don't think on any of those days I would have felt I was in an unnatural setting if the place had 20 foot walls with a moat around the perimeter. Most of the hunting was in a vehicle. The few times we hunted on foot we obviously covered even less territory.

Basically, several thousand acres with game fencing on the perimeter shouldn't make any difference in the hunting experience.

Will,

Just because someone has not been to Africa before does not mean he does not know how to hunt. It sounds like your son in law should have started off with whitetails to develop some skill in getting his rifle on game that has spotted him before heading to Africa. Perhaps the area you took him to is hunted very hard on a continual basis. The quality big game concessions in some of the more desirable locations see relatively few hunters and present more of a natural, undisturbed environment.

I hunted on the Atherstone reserve in 2001. It's about 75,000 acres of fenced property in RSA. Numzaan outfitters hunted it then, and it was the last year that hunting was allowed. There were no "put" animals there.

I understand that now Game Trackers Africa, are trying to open this area again in 2005 to hunting again. It was a Zoo in 2001 and if they open it again in 2005, I'll be there!

Just ask your potential outfitter about the size of his tracts to hunt. Then ask his references if he's telling the truth. There are too small of fenced areas to hunt in RSA. But, it shouldn't be alot of trouble to find an outfit with large areas to hunt.

RAC,
for my experience, the quality of hunting in a big fenced farm (over 10.000 hectares) or in an unfenced concession is about the same. Sometimes in the fenced areas the game is more abundant. But the emotion of hunt free range animals in a very big hunting concession is entirely different.
For this reason I took my hunting concession in the south of Zimbabwe, of over 100.000 hectares. The game is born in the wild and not buyed. His behaviour is absolutely natural. Is the real hunt.

Whatever one says, there is no substitute hunting an area knowing there are no fences whatsoever.

Whether you are a first time hunter to Africa or knowing this is going to be your first and only time, if you can, always choose a non-fenced area.

Happy hunting!

I agree with Will on this one. A first and/or only trip should be set up to maximize the opportunity. And if a hunt isn't about the kill, take a damn camera and leave the gun behind.

Mario,

When you said you took your hunting concession in southern Zimbabwe of 100,00 ha. Are you a PH or do you have a hunting concession there. I am researching for 2005. I would like to learn about this property. Can you be more specific either here on AR or email me.

Thanks
George

I don't consider it a big deal one way or the other as long as the property you are hunting is large enough....

I have concession in Tanzania as large as some states, well almost and no fences...I have 500,000 ac. in the Eastern cape of SA with no fence, along with several that go 40,000 ac. that are fenced. I have 75,000 ac. fenced in the old Transvall area near Kruger park and so on...I have a cornocopia of options..

The whole world has boundries be it a fence or a river of crocs, an impassable rocky outcrop such as the Serrangetti, a country boundry, and a host of others...Those days have come and gone and the rest is simply in the mind of the inexperienced or those who cannot see the trees for the forest. Some just kid themselves in their self rightous gobbly goop...

find a good outfit, that has sufficient property and enjoy your hunt, don't be mislead by some of this internet BS about fences, If fences are a problem, then in the real world one should take up golf....

BTW there are some great hunts in Texas on extremely large properties. Keep in mind one can only hunt so much territory in a certain time span...It also depends on the type of country, low veld bush or high veld mountains...both add to the difficulty of a hunt..

I would bet that I could put many hunters in the middle of the Seleti Fenced game reserve and he would die their before he found his way out....

Also, keep in mind that a fenced plainsgame hunt in RSA is considerably cheaper than say a plainsgame hunt in the Zambezi Valley of Zimbabwe or a 16 day Plainsgame hunt in Tanzania where there are no fences...

Thats the picture, the choice is yours, but I would pick a good Safari company with fairly large properties and just enjoy the experience without concern over such trivia, thought provoking idealogy......

Dear George,
I'm not a PH.I'm a passioned big game hunter. After many years of safaris around the Southern Africa I've decided to take my own hunting area for my self and for to try a new experience: to be an outfitter. I took a big hunting concession of over 1000 square km, on the banks of the Mwenezi river in the South of Zimbabwe. Is a wonderful area plenty of plains game (probably more that in one game farm) and leopards. I have an agreement with a very experienced PH for run the safaris. Last year I had very good results with all the clients very satisfied.
If You need of other informations plese give me your e.mail address.

Mario

I am very interestred in learning about your new operation. I am beginning my research for my next hunt in June of 2005. My email address is gsmventure@aol.com. I look forwark to hearing from you.

George

Hunting fenced ranches is not a problem. What you need to worry about is hunting small ranches. According to SAGRO (www.sagro.co.za) there are 9000 ranches in South Africa with hunt able animal populations. Unfortunately most hunting ranches are 1200-3500 hectares in size and totally dependent supplemental on feeding & game auctions to keep them stocked with 15-25 different species of animals. Which in my option compromise all principles of fair chase. I view these ranches the same as paid stocked fishing ponds were you pay by the inch. In fact some have started to charge by the inch



By demanding to only hunt on large ranches ( 10,000+ acres ), you will have a wilder & more enjoyable experience. Be warned almost everybody claims to have ownership/control of huge 100.000+ hectares ranches or concessions. All you need to legally advertise 100.000+ ranches is a permission slip from a land owner. Verify all claims

.

Well put, ALF.