I posted this question in Reloading without much response, so I am trying it here since so many knowledgeable people post in the African forum. Hopefully someone will be able to help.


I just started to work with an old hammer drilling that has been in the family for many years. It had not been fired since my uncle bought it (used), and I had to determine the caliber since it was marked in the old gauge system rather than the usual caliber notation. It is nitro proofed with steel jacketed bullets, and the action is tight and has a Greener type crossbolt third fastener, so I would prefer to use smokeless powder.

A chamber cast revealed that it was an 8x58R Sauer. Groove diameter is .322 to .323 (measured by slugging the bore, plus the barrel is marked with the S bore designation), so once I get enough brass formed, bullets should be no problem. Rim thickness is .044, so rims have to be thinned slightly when forming from 9.3X72R, and necks need to be turned to allow adequate clearance for release of the bullet.

So far the only load data that I have been able to find was in Cartridges Of The World . Can anyone suggest another source of data, or some actual loads? Since it was not that uncommon at one time there must be some data available somewhere (it is listed in Quickload, but this type of tapered, non-bottlenecked cartridge presents problems in predicting pressure and velocity for most ballistics programs).

Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks,
Jim

Daer Mbogo375
i found the following reloading data in a german reloading book:
40,0 grains R 904 ( powder from RWS);196 grains Soft Nose bullet by RWS; primmer: RWS 5341; COL: 76,00mm

36,0 grains R 907 ( powder from RWS);196 grains Soft Nose bullet by RWS; primmer: RWS 5341; COL: 76,00mm

31,2 grains R 902 ( powder from RWS);196 grains Soft Nose bullet by RWS; primmer: RWS 5341; COL: 76,00mm

34,5 grains IMR 4064( powder from Dupont);196 grains Soft Nose bullet by RWS; primmer: Rem. 9 1/2; COL: 76,00mm

32,0 grains N 140( powder from Vihtavuori);196 grains Soft Nose bullet by Norma; primmer: RWS 5341; COL: 76,00mm

brass formed from 9,3X72R

but in the book they write that the 8X58 R is not an S Bore they say it is an I bore.

Florian

Florian,

Thank you very much for that information !!!!! Although I don't have access to the Rottweil powders, the IMR 4064 and vvN 140 loads will provide a good basis for load development. I don't intend to load higher than factory recommended levels, but did want to be able to use some of the newer powders. This data will allow me to use Quickload to find other suitable powders that match the pressure levels of the loads in your reloading manual.

My intention is to begin load development with .321 bullets, as they are definitely no larger than groove diameter of this particular barrel. I work with J bore Mausers as well, and have ring sizers in .321 and .318 to reduce the diameter of .323 bullets, so I will go with the size that produces good accuracy and low pressure.

I certainly appreciate your effort in posting these loads. It is about time to get this nice old drilling shooting again.

Jim

Jim,

The information on this earlier thread may be of interest. Rottweil 904=RL19. See the letter that I posted.

powders

Richard,

Great information and much appreciated !!!

Jim

Jim,

Glancing at Huntington's website, it seems that they have 8x58 Sauer Bertram brass. It might be worth a call.

Richard

Mbogo375
The 8x58R is only listed with a 8.09mm bullet diameter (.318) I got the chamber measurements and the cartridge measurements as published in the German arms and ammunition act. If you would like a copy of these pages please send me a PM with your email. Listed Maximum Pressure 2000 bar. Norma still loaded this round in 1970 with a 12.7grams soft point bullet at a speed of 680m/sec and a energy of 299kpm at the muzzle. Now you need a conversion engine?? Go to www.esbconsult.com and download their conversion program for free is very very handy and usefull.

Have fun with your Drilling

The question was just so easy - after all, the 8x58R was a popular cartridge.

Florian has kindly posted the DEVA data, so let me just add that the superb "blue" RUAG (ex DNAG ex RWS) reloading book also contains a section on this cartridge, giving data for three RWS powders with the 12,7 grams RNSP bullet.

Regards,
Carcano