Obviously, you probably wouldn't want to do this. But what if you are separated from your improved cartridges and getting the standard cartridge is your only hope of using the rifle you brought?

I have heard of folks doing this in the past. Is it even advisable or safe? How bad an accuracy hit should you expect to take?

If it is truly an improved cartridge, it can be safely done, albeit with a loss of velocity and having to resight the rifle.

I just shot some new Nosler 223 Rem brass in my 223AI chambered Rem 700. Accuracy was almost as good as with fireformed brass.

BigGuy,

I did that ONCE about 20 years ago...fired a factory 30-06 round in my 30 Gibbs. Got a blown primer, a cracked case neck, and a scary head separation. I later found I could do it without problems if I pulled the bullets and seated them so they hit the lands. The cream of wheat/bullseye method works well and is safe.

I've "fire formed" about 500 .243 Ackley Improved cases with full loads. This worked just fine for me.

I still use left over or cheap standard .243s for zero-ing scopes, fouling shots etc.

My rifle shoots standard loads [usually heavier bullets] a bit higher but no difference in windage.

I wouldn't hesitate to shoot any standard .243 in mine. [They will , of course, then be "fire formed".]

Les

Its done all the time, but each caliber and Imp. version may differ, so one has to know what he is doing...

I think all the Ackleys will fire form easily enough...I know a lot of old timers just shot 30-06 ammo in the Whelan and it fireformed perfectly..It was an accepted practice at the time...I never liked the idea of a 308 bullet rattling down my 358 bore, but obviously it didn't bother those old guys and I never knew them to get in trouble doing it...

The Gibbs wildcats that Andy refers to really blew out of lot of neck, so that was a bit different than just blowing out the shoulder..I had a hydralic case former from Gibbs, you filled it with 30 wt. oil, and hit it with a sledge hammer and presto you had oil all over your person, and the case barely formed, didn't endear me to Mr. Gibbs!!..Then there was the pressure issue with Gibbs, He got 300 Wby velocity from his 06 Gibbs at 150,000 PSI ..I finally decided Gibbs was a canidate for the men in white coats!!

I shot a 6.5 Gibbs, and a 30 Gibbs back then, and thought I'd cut a fat hog, but after a few squirts of gas and powder, and observing curly ques of smoke extruding upward from my rosy cheeks, I quit him, cussed him and went on my merry way forward, that was in my mispent wildcattin phase of life.....

How about a 375 H&H in a 375 Weatherby? Anybody done it?

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:
How about a 375 H&H in a 375 Weatherby? Anybody done it?

I haven't but it couldn't be a problem: they are the same length and headspace off the belt.

We got separated from our ammo and my two sons shot two buffalo with standard .375 H&H ammo in a .375 Ackley improved rifle, no problems.

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:
How about a 375 H&H in a 375 Weatherby? Anybody done it?

That works fine. In my rifle it drops the H&H 2525 fps velocity 300 grainer to about 2400 fps, and lowers the POI about 2" at 100 yards (as compared to .375 Wby 300 grainer at 2740 fps), and is accurate.

Thus I can fire .375 H&H loads in my .375 Weatherby anytime, no sweat, just know the trajectory.

This makes for a milder recoil than a standard .375 H&H.

Use the 2001 Wby chamber specs for best results.

Some say that a 2400 fps .375/300grainer kills better than one at 2500 or 2700 fps.

I routinely shoot regular 35 whelen ammo in my 35 Whelen Improved rifle.I have also expanded the neck on 30-06 to 35 caliber and fire formed for 35 Improved.I however would be very hesitant to shoot 30-06 rounds through my 35.

This is a lot of good info. The two rounds I have heard the most about personally are the Weatherby 375 and 223 Ackley improved. I believe it that this is not an area where generalizations are wise. Most interesting is though I expected the velocity to drop some are also reporting decent accuracy. This is encouraging

What about shooting 30-06 ammo in a rifle chambered for 300Hawk. The 300Hawk looks to be essentially an Ackley Improved version? Or am I missing something?

I gotta add.

Ray, I thoroughly enjoyed your Gibbs Anecdote

quote:

Originally posted by eyedoc:
I routinely shoot regular 35 whelen ammo in my 35 Whelen Improved rifle.I have also expanded the neck on 30-06 to 35 caliber and fire formed for 35 Improved.I however would be very hesitant to shoot 30-06 rounds through my 35.

I have a 35 Brown-Whelen that is blown out more and shorter necked than the 35 Whelen Improved ... different (longer) headspace guage ... bad idea ... can't fire 35 Whelen in the 35 Brown-Whelen chamber to fireform, though the 35 Whelen Improved is designed to do just that.

The 35 Whelen Improved, ala Ackley, is the more practical Wildcat over the 35 Brown Whelen.

Before there was factory 375 Weatherby brass or during the absences of factory 375 Weatherby brass I fired a lot of 375 H&H factory loads in the Weatherby. The cases formed perfectly and I don't remember loosing a one. Also accuracy was quite good.

Regards,

Mark

This is how Lott brass was developed, they took .375 brass turned a .375 heel on a .45 acp 230 grn and loaded it with fast powder and after trimming the case , WhaLaa a .458 Lott

Sent an Email to Z-Hat to ask about the 30 06 in the 300 Hawk chamber.

In short the answer is NO.

The 300 Hawk is formed from 280 brass and the headspace is different than the 30 06. They state shooting the 30 06 in the 300 Hawk chamber is not safe.

I have two Ackely-chambered rifles: .260 AI and .280 AI. In both rifles I have been able to fire factory rounds with between good and excellent accuracy. Two Remington factory rounds (120 plastic tip and now-discontinued 125 grain Partitions) shoot 1"-1 1/2" groups in my .260. I lose approximately 140 fps off the claimed factory velocity specs. Of course different barrels are faster or slower than others, so I can't know for certain how my rifle might have shot the standard cartridge. I have tremendous accuracy success (1/4"-1/2") shooting discontinued Federal HE 140 grain Trophy Bonded loads in my .280AI. My initial hope was that the "High Energy" load would come close to my Ackley velocity. In fact, this load loses more velocity relative to claimed factory specs (190 fps) than the factory .260 fodder fired in my .260 AI, and the variance in velocities ranges the widest (as much as 70 fps between shots)- yet it is extremely accurate. I am not a handloader and had these rifles built up over 5 years ago (Superior Ammo loads for me). I'm not sure that I would go down the "Improved" path again unless I am able to carve out the time to learn to handload, and even then I'm not sure its worth it to me. Good luck