Perhaps this belongs in the political forum - if so, please feel free to move it there.

In any case, check this out:

http://news.yahoo.com/melissa-...rc=mediacontentstory



I'd encourage you all to find an avenue by which to publically show support; get the word out, comment on the comments board etc.

Absolutely we need to support her!!! Apparently she is from Minnesota. Does anyone in the forum know her?

If she is single, I have the perfect guy in mind for her to help her through these emotional times.


dale

Ron, it ain't happening. Hunters, as a group are as divided as Republicans and Democrats, and never the twain shall meet.

I agree with you, but I am afraid we are in the minority on this subject.

Hi Randall,
Hope you're well.

First rule of fight club..."Don't talk about fight club"

I feel she brought it on herself. DEFINED: I don't think she's guilty of anything or needs to apologize for anything either. She is a smart woman, social media will never, ever accept sport hunting.

We as hunters need to just STFU. I have a FB page, which is actually is a race page for an event, I will not put hunting photo's up.

I'm not ashamed, I just know better. Fishing is fine, people don't seem to think fish die.

"Don't talk about fight club"

Steve

Good seeing you posting Steve. You are right, stick a stick into a hornet's nest and you will get stung.

Hope all is going well with your racing.

Randall

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
...... I will not put hunting photo's up.

I'm not ashamed, I just know better. Fishing is fine, people don't seem to think fish die.

"Don't talk about fight club"

Steve

More hunters ought to adopt a similar attitude.

Times have changed!

Absolutely, Not ashamed...proud. Not hiding from anything...trying desperately to hold onto my rich hunting heritage.

Social media can only result in negativity towards hunting...if WE ALLOW it. We gain nothing by the obtuse posting of trophy photo's on social media websites.

We allowed loons like Joloburn to draw us out into the open and expose our "Fight Club"

We as a group are way too smart for that. Besides, we have the guns.

i get your point, steve, but playing devil's advocate, i post my hunts on FB all the time (since I joined FB in 07 or 08), and have never, ever had a problem. even people who do not hunt will congratulate me, especially if the hunt was a family event.

obviously, the difference is that i am just some regular joe and not a public figure or something along those lines, but i think the point remains valid. you cannot and will not ever please everyone, so it seems to me that the best you can do is to be as true to yourself as you can, and be judged by that.

in a world where drug use, sexual promiscuity and living "wrong" are all glorified, i have no plans at all to allow my posts on my page to be dictated by someone who thinks they have the moral high ground just because their meat comes from the supermarket. if you're allowing others to dictate your choices, then you are owned by them, no matter how you proudly proclaim otherwise.

i do respect your right to make your choices, and i do not expect anyone to do as i do just because i say so, but i simply disagree.

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:
i get your point, steve, but playing devil's advocate, i post my hunts on FB all the time (since I joined FB in 07 or 08), and have never, ever had a problem. even people who do not hunt will congratulate me, especially if the hunt was a family event.

obviously, the difference is that i am just some regular joe and not a public figure or something along those lines, but i think the point remains valid. you cannot and will not ever please everyone, so it seems to me that the best you can do is to be as true to yourself as you can, and be judged by that.

in a world where drug use, sexual promiscuity and living "wrong" are all glorified, i have no plans at all to allow my posts on my page to be dictated by someone who thinks they have the moral high ground just because their meat comes from the supermarket. if you're allowing others to dictate your choices, then you are owned by them, no matter how you proudly proclaim otherwise.

i do respect your right to make your choices, and i do not expect anyone to do as i do just because i say so, but i simply disagree.

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:
i get your point, steve, but playing devil's advocate, i post my hunts on FB all the time (since I joined FB in 07 or 08), and have never, ever had a problem. even people who do not hunt will congratulate me, especially if the hunt was a family event.

obviously, the difference is that i am just some regular joe and not a public figure or something along those lines, but i think the point remains valid. you cannot and will not ever please everyone, so it seems to me that the best you can do is to be as true to yourself as you can, and be judged by that.

in a world where drug use, sexual promiscuity and living "wrong" are all glorified, i have no plans at all to allow my posts on my page to be dictated by someone who thinks they have the moral high ground just because their meat comes from the supermarket. if you're allowing others to dictate your choices, then you are owned by them, no matter how you proudly proclaim otherwise.

i do respect your right to make your choices, and i do not expect anyone to do as i do just because i say so, but i simply disagree.

Good point and well articulated. I guess, If I were to completely disclose all my reasons for not posting hunting pics on my FB page you might agree.

If you go have a look at it, You will see it is basically a race page, which is pointing to a donation page for Special Olympics Arizona.

I decided when I put it up, I wouldn't post anything that might dissuade any potential donors. Cycling people are inherently green and really put off by hunting.

So, in the interest of full disclosure, there you are.

Regards,

Steve

good reasons, steve, and i'd like to thank you for the work you do.

your page is a unique case; i mistakenly thought it was your own, personal page ~ my bad.

apologies for my jumping to conclusions...

No apologies required. It is my personal page. It just points to my donation page. I didn't even have a FB page until July this year. The wonderful girls at SOAZ helped me set it up.

My only real point is, we as a international hunting demographic, stand only to loose ground by posting trophy photo's. I think society has flipped to the point we are past the tipping point. We are a minority. Even us here on AR fight like cats and dogs over issues' we should stand fast on.

I just see nothing positive for sport hunting or conservation coming from this woman posting trophy photo's. That said, she obviously has done nothing wrong or unethical. Society deems us all as pariahs.

Steve

Steve,

I have to admit you are right on. I have pics on my facebook and even some of my best friends that are hunters ask why--deer are ok but a giraffe is off limits...hummmm...you are right we are on the losing end of this battle. Makes me said for the future.

Ed

This story is big in RSA at the moment. It shifted from the Lion hunt to hunting in general. The media ( most of them) as usual are siding with the anti's. The ph is getting death treats, how is that for ethics from the greenies.

I am of the opinion that we must get our message out in the social media. I regularly post hunting article and photos on my FB page and on my company page. I try to give out facts on hunting and the role hunting is playing in the conservation of our natural hertage. I am not prepared to stand back for the anti's emotional attacks on us. What is very important is not to get involved with them on an emotional level, I stick to the facts and keep it rational. Their big tactic is to attack us on an emotional level and get us to respond in an emotional way, once they succeed they use our emotional reaction to further their point in the media.

The important thing is to never get involved in emotional responces, stick to the facts then they have nothing to hammer us with.

Many of the anti's do not have an idea what hunting is all about because of all the lies that are fed to them in the media, over the years I have changed the minds of many people. I does not mean that they must become hunters, but if they understand us and they except hunting as a conservation tool they become pro-hunting even though they are non-hunters.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
No apologies required. It is my personal page. It just points to my donation page. I didn't even have a FB page until July this year. The wonderful girls at SOAZ helped me set it up.

My only real point is, we as a international hunting demographic, stand only to loose ground by posting trophy photo's. I think society has flipped to the point we are past the tipping point. We are a minority. Even us here on AR fight like cats and dogs over issues' we should stand fast on.

I just see nothing positive for sport hunting or conservation coming from this woman posting trophy photo's. That said, she obviously has done nothing wrong or unethical. Society deems us all as pariahs.

Steve

Mate do we want to underground and gather in dank places like moles?

Same thing happened to me this year my face book page got attacked I had 100s of phone calls death threat's you name it, they went as far as to call the references I have on my website. Funny thing is all the calls were "Private numbers "so they are very brave as long as they can hide behind computer screens and private phone numbers. I had to shut my face book page down and take of all the references on my website. Not good for business at all!

Adri Kitshoff CEO of PHASA has just got of off SA national TV in support of Melissa.

She tore into the Greenies on the show an completely shut them down. A great victory for the hunting community.

Some side info , PHASA with the help of the wild sheep foundation , DSC an SCI is on a PR drive to try and help huntings image , with the help of a JHB PR company.

They gave stats for people who are pro hunting , indifferent an vehemently against hunting. Only 9% are totally against hunting an deemed unsaveable.

The goal is to educate the 40+% indifferent people.

Unfortunately we are our own worst enemy. We need to be a voice of reason for hunting , we need to be civil when dealing with these 9% so that we can win over the 40+%
We need to keep our photos an videos respectful on social media.
This is especially true to week end warriors posting pics that's bad for the community. We need to police this ourselves. If we see pictures on social media that's unacceptable, we can PM them an ask them to please remove the pic.

Let's educate the ignorant

quote:

Originally posted by Jaco Human:
This story is big in RSA at the moment. It shifted from the Lion hunt to hunting in general. The media ( most of them) as usual are siding with the anti's. The ph is getting death treats, how is that for ethics from the greenies.

I am of the opinion that we must get our message out in the social media. I regularly post hunting article and photos on my FB page and on my company page. I try to give out facts on hunting and the role hunting is playing in the conservation of our natural hertage. I am not prepared to stand back for the anti's emotional attacks on us. What is very important is not to get involved with them on an emotional level, I stick to the facts and keep it rational. Their big tactic is to attack us on an emotional level and get us to respond in an emotional way, once they succeed they use our emotional reaction to further their point in the media.

The important thing is to never get involved in emotional responces, stick to the facts then they have nothing to hammer us with.

Many of the anti's do not have an idea what hunting is all about because of all the lies that are fed to them in the media, over the years I have changed the minds of many people. I does not mean that they must become hunters, but if they understand us and they except hunting as a conservation tool they become pro-hunting even though they are non-hunters.

I completely agree, but look at all the flack DSC has caught on the rhino hunt. However, I don't think the small-minded can be taught about sustainable conservation through hunting.

Said hunt hunt could catch an insane amount of money, but no one understands the end result. The fella who wrote the article about Bachman and her lion used facts. He stated he didn't care about hunting himself, but supported the benefits.

I have my wildebeest pic as my profile pic on my FB page. But I also don't have a lot of FB friends and spend very little time on there.

Those who are my friends know of and accept my hunting. Having said that, some "friends of friends" are decidedly anti-hunting, though none has ever challenged me.

I guess the difference is if you're using FB for staying connected to friends or for self-promotion. The self-promotion part can come back to bite you, as this gal found out.

Not that I don't support her, but she's in the self-promotion business. And you've got to take the bad with the good.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
No apologies required. It is my personal page. It just points to my donation page. I didn't even have a FB page until July this year. The wonderful girls at SOAZ helped me set it up.

My only real point is, we as a international hunting demographic, stand only to loose ground by posting trophy photo's. I think society has flipped to the point we are past the tipping point. We are a minority. Even us here on AR fight like cats and dogs over issues' we should stand fast on.

I just see nothing positive for sport hunting or conservation coming from this woman posting trophy photo's. That said, she obviously has done nothing wrong or unethical. Society deems us all as pariahs.

Steve

Mate do we want to underground and gather in dank places like moles?

Good Morning Andrew,
If anyone here knows how dedicated a hunter, sportsman and ombudsman for the outdoor, shooting sports I am, It is you. I feel to further, better and preserve our heritage, we need to be a bit more cognitive of our message in social media.

If you don't think we have reached the tipping point, just look at the political climate here in the USA, we elect an empty suit... twice, based on a majority vote of an entitlement crowd. These are the same folks, with the help of the media, who sway public opinion.

And what do you have against moles?

I've shot more Baboons than Iosif Vissarionovich Stalin killed Russians, but I don't plaster pictures of piles of Baboons skulls with a big grin on my face on public sites - and I would deny those pictures exist... unless you have a copy of said event, then I would suggest they have been photoshopped. But I digress...

As hunters or more to the point, intelligent, ethical hunters we do have an obligation to preserve our rights and freedom to hunt. On the intelligent side, we need to understand that while we are banded together to preserve our rights, there is also a highly organized and highly motivated element that has banded together to remove our hunting rights and freedoms. Therefore, it isn't real bright to post pictures of your recent Rhino kill or pet cat kill no matter how ethically it was taken. It's fertilizer for our opposition.

If you want to shoot a cat behind a high fence, then go for it, but don't be a bozo about it and flaunt it. And if you do, don't act like you didn't know it would cause a shitstorm. That would indicate that hunters are largely ignorant knuckle dragging beasts or all breasts and no brains.

I certainly defend Melissa's right to shoot a pet cat, but I find it hard to defend making it a public event.

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:

If you want to shoot a cat behind a high fence, then go for it, but don't be a bozo about it and flaunt it. And if you do, don't act like you didn't know it would cause a shitstorm. That would indicate that hunters are largely ignorant knuckle dragging beasts or all breasts and no brains.

It has been pointed out by several people that MB is being attacked because she is a woman. I really wonder if the tight tank tops aren't a big part of the problem. I mean, have you ever seen a man hunting Africa in a tight tank top?

It is my perception that many of these female hunting personalities are focusing on their physical assets, rather than their "personality".

The two Boddington gals are obvious exceptions.

How old was her lion ?

Was it part of a pride ?

Any trail cam pictures on bait ? Maybe not most likely following tracks in the kalahari of a dead cattle kill :-)

Someone got to hold her accountable for shooting chattel and calling it hunting.

All this social media anti MB stuff is a joke. South african politicans are all involded in the wildlife industry no greenie is going to stop chattel shooting in south africa.

However, real wild lion hunting may become more at risk as this farce on both mb and her opponents causes other less informed/ignorant governments - zambia/botswana to further curtail hunting.

Mike

quote:

As hunters or more to the point, intelligent, ethical hunters we do have an obligation to preserve our rights and freedom to hunt. On the intelligent side, we need to understand that while we are banded together to preserve our rights, there is also a highly organized and highly motivated element that has banded together to remove our hunting rights and freedoms. Therefore, it isn't real bright to post pictures of your recent Rhino kill or pet cat kill no matter how ethically it was taken. It's fertilizer for our opposition.

Opus1:

In a nutshell you have made the situation more than clear though to some nutshells, waging war against the ever increasing mass of antis is the only amswer.

http://www.wrsa.co.za/news/item/405-...bachman-affair.

It has come under the attention of the South African Predator Association that Melissa Bachman’s posting of her hunting trophy photographs on Face Book and Twitter has drawn a huge negative response from far and wide. In South Africa a photograph showing a smiling Bachman behind her trophy lion has elicited severe criticism, as if this lion is the last nail in the coffin of the African lion as a species.

This outcry, how well meant it might be, is utter nonsense. It comes either from people that are totally misinformed or from people with a mindset created by Walt Disney.

Responsible and sustainable hunting of game species is an internationally accepted norm and it is practised all over the world. Elephant, lion and buffalo and all other game species are hunted in South Africa in a responsible and sustainable manner. The hunting industry constitutes a very important sector of the South African economy: it earns revenue for the country, it creates employment, it provides food and it contributes to conservation. It has engineered the survival of several game species that were on the brink of extinction.

South Africa has several healthy and thriving free roaming lion populations, mainly in national, provincial and private game reserves. They are well cared for and they are under no threat, except disease (bovine TB in Kruger National Park). Their numbers are estimated at around 3 000 and they may not to be hunted.

Additional to the free roaming lion populations, South Africa has between 4 000 and 5 000 ranch lions (captive bred lions). The keeping and hunting of ranch lions are strictly regulated by national and provincial legislation. The provincial lion hunting regulations as well as the SA Predator Association’s norms and standards explicitly prohibit hunting practices associated with “canned hunting”. No lion hunt undertaken under the auspices of provincial regulations or under the auspices of the SA Predator Association’s Norms and Standards can be construed as a “canned hunt”. “Canned” lion hunting is illegal in South Africa and is totally rejected by the industry.

Me Bachman’s lion hunt was conducted on the Maroi private game ranch in Limpopo Province under that province’s legal requirements and therefore completely legal. She testified to the fact that it was a classic walk-and-stalk hunt, which is the basis of the fair chase mode of hunting.

The ranch lion industry in South Africa was developed on the legal basis provided by the National Environmental Management Act 107 of 1989 and the National Environmental Management (Biodiversity) Act 10, 2004 and rests upon the principle of the sustainable use of wildlife species, acknowledged by the IUCN. While the ranch lion industry is primarily, like the ostrich industry, a commercial farming operation, it offers substantial conservation value. The 4 000 – 5 000 ranch lions represent a significant lion population in the broader context of dwindling numbers of the free roaming populations – estimated at between 16 500 and 30 000 in the whole of Africa. Every ranch lion hunted in South Africa “saves” at least one lion in the wild. Contrary to popular belief, captive bred lions can be successfully introduced into wild environments, thus rendering the real possibility of repopulating lion habitats and reserves in Africa where they became extinct.

The kind of remarks made by some people on Me Bachman’s hunting activities is not only outrageous and dangerous, but it is exactly the kind of ignorance and misinformation that we as the South African Predator Association so passionately vow to combat and eliminate in order to protect the African conservation community at large from another embarrassment such as which the Rhino as a species is still facing today.

Pieter JJS Potgieter

President: SA Predator Association

2013-11-18

Enquiries: Prof. Pieter Potgieter on 082 451 0762

Edit / Delete Edit Post Quick reply to this message Reply Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message

Damn, that's a great response!!!!!

quote:

Me Bachman’s lion hunt was conducted on the Maroi private game ranch in Limpopo Province

Nope she lived there but, they dont have lions!!!been there several times and know the owner no lion hunts ther e!!...

Anyone notice she has a R handed rifle in a lefty pose. I don't think any hunter would hold his/her rifle the "wrong" way, posing for a photo or not, and I doubt she is so poor that, if she is a lefty, she cannot afford a Left handed rifle. Or am I missing something here?

Jas

Jas,

Plenty of left handed people shoot right handed rifles without any great problem...... not least amongst 'em is our very own Craig Boddington.

I'm also left handed and don't have any major problems shooting a right handed rifle..... admittedly a bit slower than a left handed bolt but I can (and do)do it.

Thanks Steve.

I stand corrected. Never thought about that. I assumed if one could afford it one would buy a rifle suited to one's style of shooting.

Hope you are well.

Jas

Jas

Yes. We're well thanks.

It's often not very easy to get a left handed rifle of choice...... things get easier as years go by but for example, I struggled like hell to find a left handed DG rifle when I was younger.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Jas

Yes. We're well thanks.

It's often not very easy to get a left handed rifle of choice...... things get easier as years go by but for example, I struggled like hell to find a left handed DG rifle when I was younger.

Hi Steve,
I believe I have a lefty DR you have an eye for.

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Jas

Yes. We're well thanks.

It's often not very easy to get a left handed rifle of choice...... things get easier as years go by but for example, I struggled like hell to find a left handed DG rifle when I was younger.

Hi Steve,
I believe I have a lefty DR you have an eye for.

Steve

Too bloody right you do my friend!

Given half a chance, I'd steal it from you!

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Jas,

Plenty of left handed people shoot right handed rifles without any great problem...... not least amongst 'em is our very own Craig Boddington.

I'm also left handed and don't have any major problems shooting a right handed rifle..... admittedly a bit slower than a left handed bolt but I can (and do)do it.

Me too, give me a left handed rifle, and you might as well give me a stick, I just cannot get around the bolt on the wrong side.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Jas

Yes. We're well thanks.

It's often not very easy to get a left handed rifle of choice...... things get easier as years go by but for example, I struggled like hell to find a left handed DG rifle when I was younger.

Hi Steve,
I believe I have a lefty DR you have an eye for.

Steve

How many more are you giving away?