First article in the latest Safari magazine details a gun battle in Botswana with a bull elephant.
The author and hunter, a Mr. Bob Keagy, puts three rounds from a .458 Win Mag broadside into a bull at 100 yards (his estimate). Bullet were Barnes 500 grain solid.

Fight on

The elephant ambles off 300 yards or so and the PH shoots (Mike Murray, Bottle Pan Safaris). Then Keagy lets drive with another heart shot, then a hail Mary hip shot, which connected somewhere.

Elephant runs off with the PH in hot pursuit and shortly there are 3 more shots in quick succession. Elephant DRT.

Mr Keagy goes on to detail that the .458 Win Mag failed to penetrate and is surprised to find two of the .458 solids laying in the bottom of one of the heart chambers, having not gone on through.

Am I missing someting here? I thought the idea of hunting elephant was up close and personal, not 100 yards. It is easy enough to get 2150 fps from a 500 grain .458. SO WHAT? Jack Lott's baby is going to achieve 2300 fps from the same 500 grain .458. SO WHAT?

The whole thing is, IMHO, a sad commentary, borderline ethical, and damn poor journalism from SCI.

Sorry, every one was so wrapped up about shooting their PH and sleeping in the dirt being the proper was to hunt that your post fell by the wayside.

I am not going to pull out a ballistics chart, but it is safe to say the 458 looses a but of juice at 300 yards.

As to ethics, their is no such thing in the case you mention. It's not like they were spot-lighting them....

Is 100 yards too far? I say yes. But them why is 100 yards ok on a lion or a kudu, but too far on an elephant? It's really all about aesthetics.

I have only killed one elephant and we got in real close before he decided to exit stage right. I put one through his brain as he passed through a small open area. The shot was taken form 23 yards and everything worked out fine. It was near the end of the hunt and I had put in a great deal of miles looking for "my" elephant and I was darn glad that I found him.

About the same time I was hunting my elephant an acquaintance was hunting elephant in a different area. He took an elephant on the first or second day. His shot was taken at about 200 yards. His elephant had great ivory. I don't think that there is anything wrong ethically with his taking a long range shot, but I would have felt cheated not to have put in more time and to have missed out on the up close and person aspect of elephant hunting.

So, bad ethics or poor journalism form SCI? No, but the hunter did cheat himself out of the true experience of elephant hunting(going by your summary alone).

quote:

No, but the hunter did cheat himself out of the true experience of elephant hunting(going by your summary alone).

The best way of summarizing the whole episode.

How many clients or PHs on this board (armed with a proper rifle of course) would pass on a 100 pound tusker at 100 yards? I would probably consider booking another hunt to "get the experience of being up close" while I was enjoying the long fat tusks in my study.

Yellowstone - I don't know the hunter, but I do know Mike Murray very well. I have hunted the Eastern Cape with him, and I have also hunted elephant with him in Bottlepan. In all the safaris I have done, I would definitely rate Mike as one of the very best hunter/PH I have ever been with. Of course not knowing the whole situation, I am quite sure there was good reason for taking a shot at 100 yards, knowing Mike and his love of elephant hunting.

Case in point, I was hunting elephant in Botswana CH1/CH2 in 2008. Ronnie Blackbeard was my guide, a fine gentleman and obviously a very experienced hunter. However, now in his late 60's some of his skill and senses have started to fade. Starting with the fact that he cannot hear a lick, period! I was fortunate to shoot a bull in the upper 50's, but 6 days into the hunt we found a huge bull that was every bit of 75lbs. Problem was he was only 1 kilometer from the Chobe National Park boundary, so caution was needed. As the big bull fed, along with his 3 buddies, we began our approach. Between trackers, game scouts, ph, hunter and 2 cameramen, we had 9 of us "sneaking" on the big bull. Long story short, before we could get a proper shot, the big bull became wary and ran right past his partners, heading straight for the park. Quickly we followed hoping he would stop and let us get a chance at him. He did, and we saw him standing perfectly broadside, listening for us at 137 yards (I ranged him), but his head was obscured by brush, and he was now to close to the park to shoot him in the body. I quickly told Ronnie that we needed to get to the right and about 35 yards in front of us where we would have a clear shot at his head. Just as we were about to get into position, the bull wheeled for the park, never to be seen again.

The experience of up-close elephant hunting is fabulous, but every situation dictates different circumstances. No question, shooting a big bull at 100 yards was not my original plan, but I gladly would have done it for that big boy, and I felt 100% confident I could have brained him on the spot! Maybe a similar situation was called for on the hunt you mention, we just don't know.

Not going into the details of the hunt but a couple of comments. The 458wm is a great elephant cartridge, but you have to use some common sense to side step its few short comings.

First, the round has to be hand loaded to achieve its potential. I have yet to chrono a factory round that acieved what could be achieved through hand loading. And I have had some hand loads pressure tested and even well below SAAMI max specs they outperform factory loads alot. Here a Q: Federal Factory load? If so, poor choice!

Second, bullet choice is important in loading to allow the 458wm to achieve its potential. The 500gr Barnes is LONG, the 458wm case SHORT, the two don't go together. The 450gr Barnes would have been the better choice by far. 500gr Steel jacket solids work well in the 458wm, they are not as long as the 500 mono metals. Mono metals of 450gr and the 458wm were made for each other.

With two Barnes found in the heart there were at least two holes in the heart. The elephant was dead, just didn't realize it yet. If you want instant confirmation of your shot, use a brain shot!

JPK

Well, very interesting comments from gentlemen with far more experience than I. I have either read or participated on this website for 5 years and this is truly the first time that I ever recall hunters stating that they have made long shots on elephant. Literature is pretty skimpy in telling the tale as well. According to ballistics tables, the 500 grain bullet is still railing along at 1800 - 1900 fps at 100 yards with a ton and a half or nearly 2 tons of energy, depending on bullet and load. You'd think that would be enough, and apparently it was eventually.

However, I stand corrected and I don't wish to start a cyber fight. As written, there was nothing poor about Mr. Keagy's shooting. All were in the boiler room. I love my .458 but I personally wouldn't shoot it at a lion or kudu much less 6 tons of pachyderm at 100 yards or so. I have longer reaching rifles much better suited for the task. Nor have I killed an elephant. I have on two occasions been close enough to them to get hammered into the ground like a nail from their trunk. It's enough to make pee run down your leg, and I wouldn't have felt comfortable with a .600 in my hands.

So, in the end, I will take up my soap box and retire from Hyde Park to reconsider what I might be able to do with a .458. The next mastacon I find in Montana will be in serious trouble, maybe even 100 yards off the muzzle.

Yellowstone - I probably should clarify one thing. Although I was more than willing to head shoot the big bull in Botswana at 100 plus yards, I was not using a .458 win. I was shooting a .375 Rem Ultra mag, with 270 gr Barnes solids at 2,900 FPS at the muzzle.

quote:

Originally posted by yellowstone:
Well, very interesting comments from gentlemen with far more experience than I. I have either read or participated on this website for 5 years and this is truly the first time that I ever recall hunters stating that they have made long shots on elephant. Literature is pretty skimpy in telling the tale as well. According to ballistics tables, the 500 grain bullet is still railing along at 1800 - 1900 fps at 100 yards with a ton and a half or nearly 2 tons of energy, depending on bullet and load. You'd think that would be enough, and apparently it was eventually.

However, I stand corrected and I don't wish to start a cyber fight. As written, there was nothing poor about Mr. Keagy's shooting. All were in the boiler room. I love my .458 but I personally wouldn't shoot it at a lion or kudu much less 6 tons of pachyderm at 100 yards or so. I have longer reaching rifles much better suited for the task. Nor have I killed an elephant. I have on two occasions been close enough to them to get hammered into the ground like a nail from their trunk. It's enough to make pee run down your leg, and I wouldn't have felt comfortable with a .600 in my hands.

So, in the end, I will take up my soap box and retire from Hyde Park to reconsider what I might be able to do with a .458. The next mastacon I find in Montana will be in serious trouble, maybe even 100 yards off the muzzle.

Yellowstone, There is a chap is Zimbabwe called Adrian Reid and he and his team have accounted for over 40,000 cull elephant. He uses a .458wm by choice. Great calibre and I use it as one of my carry guns.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

Yellowstone, There is a chap is Zimbabwe called Adrian Reid and he and his team have accounted for over 40,000 cull elephant. He uses a .458wm by choice. Great calibre and I use it as one of my carry guns.

As did Paul Grobler, Richard Harland, Ron Thomson, Barrie Duckworth (that's about 20,000 eles between them) and other use and love the 458wm.

Just use some discretion when selecting ammo, or loads.

JPK

Agreed for sure.
There's no shortage of opinions on the merits of the much maligned .458 Win Mag. I am aware that it has done honorable service for many hunters, professional or otherwise, since 1956, or there abouts. The men you just listed are something of legends in their own right. Mr. Harland's book is a classic.

Lord grant me the opportunity to go to Africa one more time I would dearly love to hunt elephant, along with another buffalo and leopard. If that comes to pass I won't hesitate to pack the Model 70. No, maybe the leopard is overkill, but that's mixing apples and oranges.

I'd like to think that I would sneak through the mopane mano y elephant up close and personal. Words are sometimes made to be eaten, but as you say, discretion is advisable. I really don't know if I can get 2200+ fps from my rifle, but at shorter distances than written about in the story, I can't forsee that it is necessary. Dead elephant don't give shit what they've been terminated with anymore than Montana trout appreciated being caught with $1000 Orvis flyrods.

Reckon that article just didn't sit too well with me. Hell, I know they've been put down with arrows, pistols, muzzleloaders, probably .22 RF. Whatever blows your skirt up.

yellowstone,

.458wm was designed to put big stuff down at fifty yards. This is why it was a choice of professionals.

The only reason you would not want to shoot Lion with it is to save on your taxidermy bill.

It is unusual for elephant to be shot at long range except for follow up shots on wounded animals. I did take one large bodied PAC bull at around 90 yards using a 470 double that is pretty close to a 458 Win in killing power and penetration. The first 500 grain Woodleigh solid hit the high heart/lung area and ended up in off side shoulder muscle. The second landed about 6 inches higher than the first and also ended up in the same area within a few inches of each other. The second also hit the oh side humerus and effectifely anchored the bull to that spot. A follow up head shot finished matters. I wuldn't hesitate to take an elephant at 90 to 100 yards a 458 Win or 470 with a good solid if necessary as it was in this case. I do prefer to be much much closer though.

465H&H

the 458 is a fine round for elly, but if you really want to make sure, use a lever action 45-70 with garret hammerheads