Took some guns and stuff to the Customs Office today to get it listed on form 4457. Figured as long as I am making the drive might as well get several guns "listed" for travel. No problems, the Custom Agents [the 3 that were there] were very nice. I filled out the forms and one Agent checked the serial numbers and I was on my way.
You also need to put the rifle scope numbers on the form, and depending on your mount they may be hard to see. I made a list of all my numbers and filled out the form using that. The Agents will look at the actual number in the gun. If you have a Blaser or other switch bbl gun, be sure and list the individual bbl serial numbers.

I forgot to say that the Customs Agent told me that the Department of State Office of Defense Trade Controls Temporary Expert License form DSP-73 does not apply to Sportsmen with Hunting Guns.

Regarding your comment about registering both the action and the barrels for a Blaser, when I had my guns checked about a month ago in Atlanta, that was not the case, at least as far as travel to Africa is concerned. The inspector did say that that both needed to be registered only if you were traveling to Europe. I'm also taking an O/U shotgun and was told that the serial number on it's barrel wasn't needed. As for my scopes, he looked at both the scoped rifles that I had with me and never mentioned that I needed to do anything about them. I did have cameras and binoculars with me, registered them, but was told it wasn't necessary...Hope the inspecting agent on my return has the same opionions as the guy on my way out! ;-)

I was told if the scopes were mounted on the rifle not to worry about it, and I had no trouble. I didn't have anyone ask about my camera and binoculars when I came through customs, as they were kept in my carry on bag. I sure listed them on my customs form, though, just in case.

Spring, the 4457 is not a regesteration, but your proof of ownership when you come into the USA from anyplace outside this country. You may list anything that has a sereal No on it, and it is a very good idea, especialy if it is made in another country. The 4457 is good for life, and mine are all stapled in my Passport. Some foreign countries have started requireing the 4457, simply because they have seen so many of them, and now think, wrongly, that they are required of US citizens. Any proof of ownership is all that is required by US Customs. The 4457 is a time saver,and should be with you anytime you leave the country with a firearm, but it is NOT a requirement of US Customs, and no copy is made of what you put on the 4457.

NE 450 No2,

Good to know that US Customs knows the law, a DSP-73 has never been required for "sportsmen with hunting guns" because of the exemption for temporary export found in Section 123.17 of ITAR.

Spring,

I have had a Customs Officer tell me that I don't need to register my scopes because they are made in the USA. You will get different answers depending on who happens to be working the desk that day. I think I would have insisted on putting my serial number down for the shotgun.

A couple of things you must do; (1) have a Form 4457 that includes only the gun(s) your are taking on this trip [don't rely on an old 4457 which lists other gun(s) that you won't have with you upon return to the US], and (2) have the bolt out of the rifle upon return, Customs is inspecting all firearms to make sure they are unloaded.

MacD37,

Technically you are correct, but one will save themselves a lot of hassle if they have a Form 4457.

Regards,

Terry

[ 07-17-2003, 17:06: Message edited by: T.Carr ]

I have a funny story regarding said form. I was in the middle of the african bush in Zimbabwe when 11 Sept struck. As you can imagine, getting back to the US was a problem. I am a serving naval officer and HAD to get back ASAP. Since all flights to the US were cancelled, I bet "on the come" that once flights opened back up, German efficiency would be my best bet to get back. So I rebooked from Jo'Burg to Frankfurt figuring that I could always go "across the runway" to the US Air Force Base there and hitch a ride home. My two rifles all of a sudden became a liability.

Well, I made it to Frankfurt and thankfully, US air space opened up again and my hunch regarding the Germans was right. With typical Teutonic efficiency, Lufthansa had many flights going back home. Well, then came the X-Ray machines and my guns, ammo, knife, etc. All of a sudden I was surrounded by "Die Polizei" and my bags were given a thorough search. I was kindly asekd "vere ar yur papers" just like in the war movies Shit, what papers? we don't register guns in the US? Well, I thought about my Customs Form and quickly produced it. The Inspector looked at it and affixed the requisite stamp, "alles ist in ordnung," just like in the movies again and I was on my way! I have tht particular paper in my Africa scrapbook. I saved my ass! jorge

Gentlemen: would one of you kindly inform me if the aforementioned 4457 form can be downloaded from some site?.
By the way in Argentina you should always travel with the bolt out of the unloaded gun. Ammo should be always kept separate.
Thanks
Nainital

Good thinking, Jorge! That is what other countries rely on as proof of ownership in most cases since we don't register rifles. I think in a way it does serve that purpose even though in reality it is to prevent you from being charged duty upon return from outside the USA. It has always worked for me.

nainital,

Form 4457 is not available as a download. Unless you are a citizen of the United States, I don't think Form 4457 applies to you.

Regards,

Terry

I'm curious about something... One of my best friends goes to Argentina duck, goose, and dove hunting periodically. His most recent trip was about 2 weeks ago. Before he went this time I mentioned to him the 4457 that I had recently completed for my safaris. He said he had never heard of such a thing, had never been asked about the issue in the past, and had no plans to do anything about it for this trip. I suggested that maybe he should, but he never did. Well, his trip came and went, and once again he had no trouble whatsoever with the shotguns he took on his trip. Any thoughts as to why? He says his guns get so much use down there that no one would ever believe he had recently purchased them.... Might be right!

What MacD37 said as far as the requiremnts are concerned.

I have found that having that document makes clearence through your arriving country much, much easier.

Before 9/11, I filled out the 4457 at my local customs office at the US/Canadian border. The officer asked me for the serial number on the rifle. I asked do you want me to bring it in for your inspection, "no don't bring it in here" So I just went to my truck and copied the serial number off the rifle. Brought in the form and the Customs man signed off on it. And the foriegn Gov't take this as some high level US gun registration. It does carry weight as you go through customs.

Also when you return, it will make life a lot easier.

Last month, on my way back from Namibia, coming through Customs in Atlanta, I presented the agent with my 4457 as I lay the gun case on the table.

As he checked the form, he didn't seem to be focusing his attention on the gun case, so I asked him if he wanted me to open the case.

He said "No, if you went to the trouble to take your guns to the Customs office, that's good enough for me."



I decided to not present the 4457 for my cameras and binoculars, to save time. If somebody asked me about them, I would just hand them the form. Nobody did.

Rick.

Gents,

For what it's worth, here's my understanding and practice regarding the Form 4457. It's the same in most respects, but in some different, than what is described above in the previous posts on this subject.

The form is essentially proof of acquisition in the USA and ownership of the item listed--it is not specific to firearms--although these forms are wrongly viewed by foreigners, especially customs and sometimes ticket agents, as firearms registration forms.

The form applies to anything having an individual serial number that you acquired at home and take abroad. With the completed, signed and stamped Form 4457, you can prove when you return that you owned the item when you left home and that you therefore owe no customs duty on it.

I use them for anything of value having an individual serial number that I take outside the country, whether made in the USA or of foreign manufacture, including rifles, shotguns, scopes, cameras, lenses, rangefinders, spotting scopes, watches, binoculars, etc.

Even if your scope is a Leupold instead of a Swarovski, you should list it on a form, since Leupolds are exported all over the world and you may need, at some time in your travels, to prove yours was acquired in the USA. The same applies regardless of whether the scope is attached to the rifle or not.

Also, I would advise you always to put only one firearm on each form--along with other equipment, such as the scope and other items, if need be. That way, you won't confuse any ticket or customs agent with references to firearms that you do not have in your possession on any given trip. It's not necessary to do it this way, but it could obviate having someone ask you: "What happened to this rifle?" "Did you sell it while in/outside this country?" Etc., etc. It's better just to keep is simple.

FOR BLASER OWNERS ONLY:

As for my Blasers, I have multiple forms for each of the receivers, i.e., one form for each each receiver/barrrel combination (since caliber must be specified).

For example, right now I have one form for my Blaser Synthetic with the .375 H&H Mag. barrel attached; another form for the same receiver with the .338 Win. Mag. barrel attached; and another still for the same receiver with the .308 Win. barrel attached; etc.

This practice has the burden of requiring multiple forms for the same Blaser receiver, but that is outweighed in my mind by the benefit of avoiding potential "multiple gun" confusion of the kind described above.

Finally, I have never listed the Blaser barrel serial numbers on any Form 4457, since I follow the practice described above and for all the customs officials know, each listed firearm is a fixed barrel rifle. Again, I'm just trying to keep it simple.

Terry, Rick:
I�m not a citizen of the U.S.A. and the 4457 form does not apply to me. I�m asking just in case and to facilitate Customs�procedures. Gun registration is in force in Argentina as perhaps you already know, and forwarding the needed data to your booking agent or outfitter is a smart move. Generally speaking red tape does not amount to much and hunters are not harassed.
It seems your freedoms ain�t what used to be.
Best regards

T Carr,
A form 4457 is good for life, I have a stack of them and if you present them a 4457 with a list of guns and the gun you have with you is on the form it will be just fine...I have 4 or 5 guns listed on most forms and forms going back 20 years..When I go to Africa or wherever, I flip through the forms until I find the guns I taking with me and re-use those 4457 forms. Technically, they are much stronger evidence of ownership as they show you have owned the gun for a number of years.

There is no need to get new forms each year. The form is nothing more than a receipt of ownership.
As to foriegn countries use of the form, a bill of sale for the gun will surfice as well..The 4457 is a Gov. document and seems to impress the indigenous of African Customs somewhat, but if you do not have it, you get about the same results. I always have one for that reason.. As for returning to the states, they never question guns, scopes unless they are new..They will question high dollar cameras and watches that look new...

Ray,

You are correct, they are good for life. It is my recommendation that you only have those guns listed on the Form 4457 that you are actually taking out of the country. No sense in giving Customs a reason to delay your arrival while you explain why your Form 4457 has three rifles listed and you are only returning with two.

Regards,

Terry

Ray, I was actually asked to produce the 4457 form on my return to check serial numbers. I'm sure I would have been fine, if I didn't have it, but I was asked for it.

Gentlemen in regards to having only the guns listed on the 4457 that you are taking with you on a particular trip...I asked that exact question. The Customs Agent advised me that it was not necessary.[He was no Rookie either]. He said it did not matter how many guns you had on the form just as long as the gun you had with you was on the form. He said that it is a good idea to put everything with a serial number on the forum, that way there will be no questions. I listed the individual Blaser bbl numbers because I usually travel with the rifle broken down and might want to take an extra bbl or two.

I've had the same positive results as one of the other guys reported--happened to be in LA. Going through customs, got to gun. I showed the guy the 4457, he said "Hey, all right, man. You got your shit together." I was just starting to open the the case, he said "no need, man. You're covered. Have a good one". That was it. Required, needed, or not, I have anything with a serial number listed on one of them. I keep the originals in my passport and always have a couple photo copies stashed in other bags, etc. And it's free!!

[ 07-17-2003, 21:39: Message edited by: Arts ]

Please read this carefully, as I am not getting through to some of you.

It does NOT matter what the Customs Agent says (or how much experience they have) when you go to get the Form 4457. [The Customs Agent that told me I didn't need to list my scope, because it is made in the US, has been a US Customs agent for over 25 years - I still think she is wrong]. Unless you get the same Customs Agent to process you upon your return to the US - it doesn't matter what his/her interpretation of the rules are at the time you get a Form 4457. What matters, the only thing that matters, is how the particular Customs Agent - that is processing you back into the US - interprets the rules.

In the event you get a "by-the-book" Customs Agent, you need to be prepared for the most strict of interpretations.

This from SCI's website: (emphasis added)

"When taking hunting firearms and ammunition out of the US, you must register them at US Customs at one of the ports of entry. They will have you fill out form 4457, which is the same form you would use to for your camera or any other item that needs to be documented when leaving. This document is shown to Customs upon re-entering the US. This allows you to demonstrate that you are returning with the same firearms or ammunition that you took out of the United States: if you have more or less than documented, you could be charged with illegal importation or export, respectively. Up to three firearms and no more than 1000 rounds of ammunition may be declared in this way."

Regards,

Terry

[ 07-18-2003, 00:38: Message edited by: T.Carr ]

When returning from hunting Namibia and Zimbabwe flying through Atlanta, I showed my Form 4457 to the Customs Agent. Each time, the agent then just waved me through without having any inspection or having to stand in any additional line. I was obviously quite pleased that I had taken the time to get it.

I had a similar incident with a sat phone. It was a rental and the owner said I did not need to register it on the 4457, but since it is my boss's butt on the line, I called customs. I have been very lucky in Houston and gotten intelligent, helpful inspectors. They all give the same advice. You don't have to have the paperwork to leave the country or return, but depending on who you get on any particular day, it can mean a very slow, frustrating, and expensive end to what should have been a wonderful life experience. What's the big deal? FILL OUT THE FORMS WHETHER YOU NEED THEM OR NOT!!!

[ 07-20-2003, 08:55: Message edited by: T.Carr ]