I have a particularly heave schedule of hunting this year. I have the following:

1-July 17, doves and ducks with my boys in Argentina.

2- Ducks and geese in Canada with clients in September.

3- October 2, elephant and buffalo with Zambezi Hunters.

4- I have a desert big horn hunt in Utah sometime after I return from Zim.

5-I have my deer leases here.

I always exercise a lot. A hell of a lot actually. These hunts motivate me. I am running about 40-50 miles per week.

To make a long story short, I have torn the meniscus in my right knee. I need surgery. I am going to have 60 days or less from the surgery to the elephant hunt. That scares me.

Argentina is paid in full. Canada is paid in full. I have paid 50% for the Zim trip. The desert big horn is paid in full. My dumb ass didn't buy trip insurance.

Has anyone else experienced this? Do you think there is enough time for me to recover and do the elephant hunt? What about the sheep hunt? What would you do?

I have run for almost 40 years. This is killing me to not be able to run. I estimate I have run 125,000 miles in my life. Any idea on a cardio exercise that won't further wreck my knee.

It has not been a good day.

Thanks.

Larry, I wouldn't worry yet. Many people that have knee issues get them because of weight, so asking them about recovery won't be meaningful, as they weren't in shape to begin with. Talk to a sports medicine doctor and tell him your schedule and see what he thinks. Being in shape to begin with help LOTS with recovery.

Have a look at biking. Great cardio work out, does not have the pounding stress of running, and I think it is something that physio's recommend as part of knee rehab.

Check with your doc about the type of surgery you will require as meniscus surgeries are often done as arthroscopic day surgeries with a lot less recovery time required than a ligament rebuild.

The bike is your answer

larryshores - I am doing a little knee PT right now for some soreness, Doc says by some diligent streching of the calf, thigh and hamstring they should be fine. My schedule is full as well this Fall and don't need any additional aches and pains. Month in Moz, NM elk and coues deer hunt and a whitetail hunt in Kansas all on the bill.

Also per the Doc and PT people, running is one the most damaging things one can do. Since you have put that many running miles on your knees most likely this could have created the problems (wearing them out) you are suffering from now. Not a Doc, not a expert on the subject just passing on some thoughts I received in my evaluation.

The stretching is evidently working as the knees are feeling much better after only two weeks of therapy and stretching. Hope you get yours all worked out?

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

Larry,
Follow Biebs advice about the sports medicne doctor.
I was a pro/Cat 1 bike rider and raced against Lance Armstrong in 80s and early 90s as well as ranked 17th in the world in mountain biking at that time. I took up cycling because I ruined my knees with poor running technique on the track team at a young age. If you decide on biking, CLIPLESS peals with at least 4 degrees of float.

My advice - swimming. Not your average swimming. Get a personal trainer and have your ass whipped. Running is tough. Cycling and swimming are much tougher and give you a much better full-body and cardiovascular workout.

Thanks for the comments. Unfortunately PT isn't going to help this. I had an MRI. I have a bad tear.

I am 99% certain I did this in Rio de Janeiero. I was running. It started raining. The surface got real slick. I was slipping.I quit because I was worried about getting hurt.

The stretching and other minor exercises can work wonders in some circumstances. They have help me before with a couple of things.

Larry:

E-mail sent.

The first thing I'd do is get down on my knees thank God I'm having the life you're having.

Don't run. Stretching & light exercise are great as has been said. Massage you knee regularly - that'll help a lot. Add weight training, leg extensions, if can can get a machine. I'll bet your doctor will say that you can start that fairly soon after the surgery - with very light weight. If you want to jump around a bit, pick up a small circular trampoline - when you feel you're ready.

Good luck.

Larry,
I'm having a left knee meniscus repair done this coming wednesday, with hunts that start in August. My surgeon is also a hunter and has done this on me before. Your recovery time should be adequate. Mine is generally about 30-45 days, from surgery to hiking. It can be done, follow your doctors order to the letter.

Larry: Get the surgery. I'm presuming it's arthroscopic, correct? You'll be fine in 30 days. I had mine scoped in March 2005...was hunting in Zim three months later. I was sooo happy I did it. Your elephant hunt will be even more grueling than the safari I had.

Whatever you're pondering, don't push back the surgery any further. Get it as soon as possible if it can be done. Don't worry about the Sept. duck and goose hunt in Canada with clients.

I can fill in for ya real well. No problem.

After the surgery get yourself a Schwinn "Spinning" bike. It's best damn exercise in the world. Takes all the stress off your knees and back. You can pedal for miles and never go anywhere! It's a hell of a bike.

Swimming maybe? This is my primary form of exercise during the year. I'll play some tennis and hoops on occasion but swimming really works for me. Cardio training and it's a full body work-out, especially if you mix strokes up (free, back, breast, and fly). A friend sounds a lot like you - fanatic runner but he has permanent nerve damage in his feet now. He still gets out there but the price paid just doesn't seem worth it to me.

Larry.

If surgery has been prescribed you would be wise to have it done and avoid further damage to the joints.
However, post-surgery will likely see you with a knee brace for several weeks and full recovery after about 4 months - not sure you will make the elephant trip in a hurry.

I wish you well.

a dozen years ago, i had partial medial and lateral menisectomies done on both knees at the same time. six weeks later i was hunting mountain caribou in northern BC with NO problems. the surgery is so minimally invasive now compared to then that it is like night and day. get it done and don't worry about it. hell when i had mine done on a Friday, i was back at work on Monday using a couple of canes for support.

Larry,

Here is a novel idea.

Why not trust the advice of the surgeon that is doing your surgery? ? You have confidence in this person to fix your knee so listen to their advice; that's what you're paying him/her for.

Or as you yourself said be a "dumbass" again & listen to the advice on the internet.

Missing one elephant hunt vs missing elephant hunts for the remainder of your life isn't worth it.

Please make the right decision. (Our ranks can't stand to lose active hunters)

Swim. Laps in the pool, chest deep.

Pray a lot.

Rich
DRSS

I concurr,
I had my running cut off my buggered knees and now cycle and swim, its great.
In fact brisk walking is surprisingly good too but you always feel like you need to do it for twice as long as a run, so it is more of time sink.

Running is not your friend. Swim, run, bike, and lift like an SOB. The stronger your muscles are the shorter your recovery time will be. I think you should likely be able to limp through an elephant hunt if you work hard before the surgery and after and ice like an SOB during the hunt. I think the sheep hunt a month or two after a knee surgery is a lot, but doable if you want it bad enough. I'd consider sending a friend with the boys in July and getting the surgery done now so you can make the most out of the rest of your hunting season.

Brett

Larry

I feel for you. Went through a similiar thing a few years back. I had the op, and went through a gradually increasing recovery regime in the pool . I was back hunting within a month and felt fully recovered within 6 weeks. I really feel that the programme in the pool worked wonders not only short term but also long term .

Thank you all.

I have indeed tortured my body for many years. I went through college on a track scholarship. There was a period of 6 years in which I ran 20 miles a day! I am quite sure that has had a long term impact. My doctor said that it was a lot better to have wrecked my knees rather than have let my heart go bad. I have at least accomplished that.

These days, pre-injury, I ran 6 days a week. I lifted hard 3 days a week. When I had time, I would also walk 2 or 3 days a week carrying a 17 pound curling bar.

This exercise has helped me handle stress. There is a considerable amount if that in my life.

The strange thing is that I dreamed about this approximately 2 weeks ago.

I have already concluded that post surgery, I will have to cut back on the running. I am thinking of doing several things. Elliptical, treadmill with incline, swimming and biking. I am really wondering if anyone has tried something PRE surgery?

I feel somewhat better that some here have had the surgery and think that I will be able to do it. At this time, I am going to attempt to have the surgery as soon as I get back from Argentina. I am going to do all the PT I can before Zim and hope that between that and a lot of walking after buff and elephant get me into some minimal shape for the sheep.

Thank you all.

Swimming, absolutely. Bet your ortho and PT will endorse it.

My left knee has been a trainwreck for decades...my running days are long over. Swimming is extremely low inpact (No impact?)and gives you superb cardiovascular workout while working A WHOLE lot of muscles.

Did I mention swimming?

Good luck with this.

IMO,keeping active throughout the day is your best bet to staying in shape and pain free.No amount of daily jogging can make up for having spent a few hours idle and sitting during the day.I find that what works best for me is a seven day work week,a hockey game during the week and a couple of jogging hours.A long active work day does miracles.

Man, with your level of real pro athletic fitness I would just have the surgery & not worry at all.

I am no where near as fit as you. I busted my meniscus real bad with the knee swollen & locked for weeks - way back in 1976 as a teenager. I had arthroscopic surgery done in 1998. I was back to normal in 30 days & ready to hunt.

I would just use a sports trainer & do cycling, gym work on various knee exercises and jog on the half Swiss ball (I forget what it is called). That ball really fixed all the imbalances in my ankles and hips as a result of the bum knee causing me to walk funny for over 20 years.

Good luck and I'll pray for you.

Larry- Your recovery will be quick. This will sound a little "hillbilly" but have you considered an antique exercise device called a "Nordic Track"? I have had several knee surgeries and don't have access to a pool. Been using the NT for over 20 years. I swam in competition for 12 years and know what a workout is. The Nordic Track can do it. No impact. Availible at garage sales everywhere! Good luck!

my right knee is a train wreck. 2007 I had 5 minuscus tears and an acl tear repair. I had it on a Thursday,, went back to work on Monday,, with a cane. Rehab in Physical therapy department in my hospital,,,hurt of course but within 8 weeks I was bow hunting.Running is out of the question, My surgeon was adamant,, no more running.I bought a programable stationary bike so I can change the routine up,, put it in front of a TV,, put on hunting videos and pretend I am there to some degeree, otherwise,, not as boring of a ride and you can do it everyday in any weather. I do not have access to a pool. 3 years post surgery, been back to Africa once, head to Australia in 3 weeks and back to Africa 2011. I am out of pain and can walk,, but just walk. The surgeon didn't turn the farm truck into a Ferrari! Follow your dr's advice to the letter and you will be hunting again soon

Larry --

I'm all about helping fellow AR members when I can.

How about if I take your clients goose hunting in Canada for you? All I would need is a credit card number, and I promise to show them a really good time......I could run over next door in Utah and shoot a sheep for you if that would help also......

Les

Larry let me tell you my experience. I used to run a lot, including 2 marathons at 8 and 7:30 min/mile paces (some time ago!). I also play a lot of tennis (singles). I just recently had surgery for a torn meniscus. The recovery has NOT been good. I was expecting a quick recovery. NOT. I did everything by the book, including PT at home and at the PT office. The surgery was over 2 months ago and I cannot play tennis (tried it!) and after walking I have to ice my knee. YMMV.
I CAN walk, but walking DOWN hill hurts that knee (also the right BTW). Uphill seems to be OK. When I hike, I use a hiking stick now. I walk the dogs two miles every morning (flat bike paths) and I can feel my knee.
Peter.

LRH270

You are a true humanitarian!

quote:

Originally posted by boltshooter:
Larry,

Here is a novel idea.

Why not trust the advice of the surgeon that is doing your surgery? ? You have confidence in this person to fix your knee so listen to their advice; that's what you're paying him/her for.

Or as you yourself said be a "dumbass" again & listen to the advice on the internet.

One good reason to seek advice on this forum is the fact that you will get a wide range of experiences. Individual doctors, just like the rest of us, have strong biases that affect their opinions. This is why one doctor might say, for example, "full replacement is the best course of action", while another doctor might say that full replacement should be used only as a last resort.

My best example of how helpful this forum can be was when I did a search on sciatica. I had been to several doctors and a chiropractor and all had different opinions, and gave me little useful information. It had gotten to the point that I was in constant pain. Getting out of bed in the morning was torture. Worst of all, my daughter was born during this ordeal and I really could not enjoy her because of the pain. It is hard to enjoy anything when you are in constant pain and have begun to believe that it is only going to get worse.

Then suddenly the pain, which had been only in my leg, spread to my lower back. I really began to despair.

Finally I did a search of AR and came up with several threads started by hunters suffering from sciatica. There was a wealth of information. Hearing others' stories of recovery without surgery, and the advice given by informed members including some doctors made me feel much more hopeful that I would recover.

Someone on this forum even mentioned that lower back pain is common as the body begins to recover from sciatica. That was the first time I had heard that. Two weeks later all my pain had subsided.

I don't think Larry came here for advice, more like reassurance. And while most members are not doctors, Larry has a much better chance of finding someone with knee injury and hunting experience here than at a doctor's office.

Swim and run in the pool. Running in waist to chest dep water will beat you down but save your knees.

After the Doc finished replacing my left knee, he switched legs and 'scoped my right knee to fix a big ole meniscus tear. I didn't even pay attention to my right knee while recovering from the left knee replacement.

Agree with the swimming! I swim a couple of hundred yards every day (when I can) and the knee is not a problem then. Biking can be a problem unless the gear is low. Your knee will tell you! Rowing is out (I have a rowing machine).
Peter.

Everything in moderation. I spent high school and college in competitive swimming. I started swimming 3000-5000 meters per week (mostly freestyle) in my early 40's. I am now 50 and have had three shoulder surgeries in seven years (forgot I switched to breast in hs because of shoulder issues) and had to give it up in order to insure that I will be able to continue bowhunting. Knees are bad from too much breaststroke.

Swimming is a fabulous full body workout, but like many other exercises, too much, too hard can result in problems. Develop a cross training program and remember you are no longer 20 years old!

Larry,

Heres all you need to know



These things really work...........

Steve

I had knee surgery once. Surgery went well.
Rehab was goin well too until I got a bleed on the knee.
Surgeon drained the bleed.
Staph infection followed.
As did 2 operations and 3 months in an orthapeadics ward. Couple of months learnin to walk again.
They reckoned that 32 (at the time) was to young for a knee replacement.
So I hobble after my game now. And luv doin it!

Thank you all.

I will absolutely follow the doctors orders. I was not seeking medical advice here. Rather, I sought some reassurance from people that have done this before. I feel better as it appears many have had this and think this is workable.

Most of these doctors are sports guys at best. Relatively few are hunters. I makes me feel better to hear from hunters who have experienced the same thing as opposed to a doctor who couldn't load a single shot.

One of my good friends is an orthopedic surgeon. He has retired from surgery but still sees patients. We talked and he is sending me to a doctor that is a hunter. I am very happy about that.

I am going to see if my sheep hunt can be postponed until the next year. I bought one of the conservation tags in an auction. I have no idea if this is a possibility.


If I can get the surgery early enough, I may cut a few days off of our Argentina trip.

I feel a lot better and more optimistic now. I was devastated when I first got the news.

Thanks again.

Larry, hate to hear your troubles. You are for sure a lucky bastard to even have this dilema and I am sure it will all work out. Do what is most important. As we know each other well and you need someone to carry your shit I am always willing to go and help out an old buddy, just let me know.

Who are you hunting with and where in Canada. I live very close to Ontario.

I will call you.

Larry

swimming + surgery ASAP + pain meds = great elephant and sheep hunts!

I've had maniscus tears repaired and ACL reconstruction, my advise is to have it repaired now, you will be fine for your hunts. Make sure and do exactly what your PT says and the recovery won't be too long, in a few weeks you'll be good to go. You'll be better off with it repaired than trying to put up with it through all the hunts. It will get to where you won't be able to sleep at night, if you don't get it fixed. My next advise is to STOP THAT DAMNED RUNNING!! Too much banging on the knees and hips, you can get much better training, strength and cardio in other ways.