Since we are planning to hunt in Tanzania in 2009 or 2010, my sons and I have been going through a lot of info on the animals, country, etc.. My son brought home a couple of videos by Mark Sullivan and to be frank I just do not see this type of thing being the way I would want to hunt. To get an animal to charge you purposely when a little slip up could cost you your life or the life of others makes no sense to me. Actually I am surprised that the game department would allow this to happen, especially since there seems to be govt. game scouts on most of the Tanzania hunts.

I am wondering if any AR forum users have ever hunted with this guy. I also wonder if the charges were made for the videos or is this the way this guy always hunts.

If my post is a little off for some of you, this trip will be my first to Africa so I apologize for any " stupid questions". Just curious about this.

Paul C

Oh Boy!!!!!!!!!! A simple search on AR should render volumes of rants against Sullivan.

No, that's not how we hunt. His films are NOT instructional and most would argue his approach is unethical.

Get some Boddington films if you want a video with information.

Now buckle in and witness the storm your post will likely draw.

This comes up so often, a lot of folks just pass the popcorn and watch the fireworks.

Hunter - I just cant figure this out. I know here in California when I had a client on a boar hunt I told them unless the boar was hit and heading into some nasty shit where recovery would be a bitch, I would not shoot at all. I guided over 150 boar hunters and only one was a true charge where he saw us coming and he had enough. The client actually hit him in the front foot, but he still could run pretty well on three legs. I just would not want to put anyone in unnessary danger on a hunt.

Paul C

Paul C., did you let that boar choose how he was going to die?

You seem to already have a keen grasp of "what's up with that".

Paul,

Sullivan's videos are distorted bravado at the expense of unnecessary animal suffering and the theft of a true client hunting experience.

In a nutshell - his stuff is bullshit. Don't waste your time trying to understand it.

Sadly, many who view his films don't realize they do not represent true hunting. Hence, they misrepresent us and provide fodder for the antis.

Watch them as porn but don't confuse them with love.

quote:

Originally posted by Hunter Formerly Known As Texas Hunter:
Paul,

Sullivan's videos are distorted bravado at the expense of unnecessary animal suffering and the theft of a true client hunting experience.

In a nutshell - his stuff is bullshit. Don't waste your time trying to understand it.

Sadly, many who view his films don't realize they do not represent true hunting. Hence, they misrepresent us and provide fodder for the antis.

Watch them as porn but don't confuse them with love.

Well said.

Exactly, Texas Alias. It is hunting porn and I admit that I love to watch it. But it conflicts me.

I recognize that what he is doing is madness. If you do that long enough eventually something will go wrong and then people get killed.

I would not say unethical, but inhumane yes.

There is one hunt with a fine old gentleman from Texas and they have a wounded buff' and you can see Sullivan is trying to close in to set up one of those contrived charges and the old boy says, "Aw hell I'll just shoot him form here..." and he nails the buff' right between the eyes.
Which is exactly appropriate.

Also I am not happy that Sullivan puts 2 .600NE through everybodys critter the instant the client shoots.

Having said all that, I know of a guy that hunted with Sullivan and said he was nothing but class, hard working, etc...

quote:

Originally posted by Hunter Formerly Known As Texas Hunter:
Paul,

Sullivan's videos are distorted bravado at the expense of unnecessary animal suffering and the theft of a true client hunting experience.

In a nutshell - his stuff is bullshit. Don't waste your time trying to understand it.

Sadly, many who view his films don't realize they do not represent true hunting. Hence, they misrepresent us and provide fodder for the antis.

Watch them as porn but don't confuse them with love.

I'm inquisitive HFKATH, how often have you stood directly along side of Mr. Sullivan in the dirt of Tanzania? Or how often have you stated those very same comments to him face to face?.......yes ..just as I thought!

quote:

I'm inquisitive HFKATH, how often have you stood directly along side of Mr. Sullivan in the dirt of Tanzania? Or how often have you stated those very same comments to him face to face?.......yes ..just as I thought!

Alp#4, I suspect you know the answer to your question - not once. Never met the guy. I do know that every PH I ever talked to or read, failed to experience the percentage of charges depicted in the videos. Plus, the concept of "letting the animal choose how he dies" is absurd at best. Hence my assessment of distorted bravado.

If you're trying to pick a fight with me so be it. I'm just trying to give Paul a more balanced perspective as he seems genuinely puzzled.

Have you hunted with Mark? If I am wrong........I apologize.

BTW, I never met Johnny Wad or Marilyn Chambers either.

Paul, for a very good video on Buffalo hunting, I suggest you check out Boddington on Buffalo. It really assisted me on my first Buffalo hunt. Shoot 'em where he says shoot 'em and you'll get one without too much trouble, probably.

I also have Boddington on Buffalo and agree it is excellent and I believe fairly depicts the real thing.
As well, I have a film by Jack Brittingham; Quest for Tanzanian Big Game and there is some great buffalo hunting in there.

As usual, a Sullivan thread is stirring up emotions!

Of the hunters I have seen, JOHN SHARP is the guy I would want to meet, camp, drink a beer with by the fire and hunt with.

Although I admit that I enjoy his DVD's I do not know if I would want to hunt with Sullivan. I would love to meet him and talk to him though, to try to figure him out.

Its interesting how whenever a MS thread appears, he get´s called all sorts of names by certain posters, including claiming that what he does is "unethical" and yet, at the same time they have no qualms hunting lion behind a fence or immature lion, buff and others!

Explain that to me?

What is ethics its like sport every one has his opinion and values. The question is what tickles your fancy. is bad shooting not also unhumain.Did you give the animal a fair chance if you shoot it at 300m with 6-24X42 scope. is it ethical to use a scope? just a few questions think about it I never discuss ethics it just give the greenies ammunition to use against us.
Hunting involves killing animals but it's HOW and WHY that makes the diffrence

quote:

Originally posted by 475Guy:
This comes up so often, a lot of folks just pass the popcorn and watch the fireworks.

That's me!!!

Bring it on.......

He and his people were sure handing out the marketing materials and drawing a crowd at SCI - most I think from morbid curiosity like watching a car crash.

his bravado doesn't stop when the cameras' off either. a number of yrs ago he hunted eastern colo.with an mule deer outfitter i was guiding for.mark killed a beautiful B&C typical and when told the deer should be moved 6 or 8 feet to a slight rise for an kill photo,he grabbed the deer by the horn and jerked so hard trying to move the deer in one motion he pulled one horn off the skull plate and bye bye B&C. my experience with him in camp?puffed up asshole

I've spoken to him at SCI shows on a few occasions, never hunted with him...his prices for buffalo are just too steep for me.
Ravenr's statement of "puffed up asshole" could very well account for 50% of the posters here on AR....seeing themselves not as fellow hunters but rather as part of a snobbish clique of wanna be wealthy globe trotters whom the safari industry revovles around.
Anyone whom wishes to bust MS ass is certainly free to do so. Though they should at the very least hunt with the man once. Also bearing in mind we're all hunters...each of us is part of a snobbish clique....sportsmen/women with our numbers waning we should stay united for strenght.

I have most of his videos and for the most part enjoy them. I agree he tempts fate and it's just a matter of time till someone is killed. What baffles me is I have met 4 different clients who hunted with him and tell me their hunts were nothing at all like his videos. All had a great time and two of them had hunted with him three times. Our former member Allan Day is in one of the videos and I wish I knew what his thoughts are on Mark Sullivan since Allan seemed to be a stand up guy. Has anyone ever talked to someone who hunted with Mark Sullivan and thought it was a bullshit experience?

LJS as I said, I know a fella (through internet forums) that hunted with Sullivan. He told his story, posted a bunch of excellent photos and said Mark Sullivan was just a great guy to hunt with.

I believe the fella was actually guided by Sullivan's son.

It is easy to criticize someone at a distance like this; it's a different story eyeball to eyeball.

For the record.........My comments were directed at the videos. I have no reason to doubt that he is a good guy.

The perception of hunting projected by his videos is vastly different than reality in most instances - distorted. This thread began with Paul, anticipating his first trip to Africa, being puzzled by what he saw. Not unlike someone about to drive for the first time viewing the The Fast and the Furious to learn more before the adventure.

Opting to goad an animal, when a clean finish is available, is in my book, unethical - especially to gain marketable footage for personal gain.

I find his videos to be pretty good entertainment.

FWIW, there's a guy who posts on here and the Campfire who knows his shit when it comes to Africa, and who has hunted with MS.

He has nothing but good things to say about him.

quote:

Originally posted by ALP#4:
I've spoken to him at SCI shows on a few occasions, never hunted with him...his prices for buffalo are just too steep for me.
Ravenr's statement of "puffed up asshole" could very well account for 50% of the posters here on AR....seeing themselves not as fellow hunters but rather as part of a snobbish clique of wanna be wealthy globe trotters whom the safari industry revovles around.
Anyone whom wishes to bust MS ass is certainly free to do so. Though they should at the very least hunt with the man once. Also bearing in mind we're all hunters...each of us is part of a snobbish clique....sportsmen/women with our numbers waning we should stay united for strenght.

Saying that we should not have an opinion unless we hunt with him, is no different than telling a woman who does not like prostitution to try it first before deciding she did not like it!

Good point.

I'm going to qualify my comments first by saying that I have never hunted cape buffalo, that being said, it is on my radar for hopefully '09.

I have a couple of his videos and with the volume turned off, they can be entertaining. The man certainly has a big pair. Now, I have talked to a bunch of PHs who over the course of a career spanning a couple of decades have experienced less charges than one MS video. How can that be? How many has Saeed hunted and never been charged? Letting the animal choose how it is going to die is pure nonsense -- what choice is it being given? I think all animals need to be taken as quickly and cleanly as possible.

What MS is like in person, I haven't the foggiest as I have had exactly one conversation with him on the phone and he gave me crap about my miniscule .375 H&H......

quote:

I think all animals need to be taken as quickly and cleanly as possible.

Of Course thats why we are ethical ( Real ) Hunters not Business ( SHOW ) Man Hunters.IMO

I didn't realize that I would stir up so much emotions from my fellow hunters. I just think that after reading over many books on Safari hunting and dos and donts, Mark Sullivan just contradicts so much of what the PH's of today and yesterday would do. I would love to hear what some of the old pros think about this. I know that there are a lot of old PHs who were probably un-ethical about their methods, but I would have to believe that 99% were true gentlemen who did it the right way. I do not think that Sullivan can be mentioned in the same breath as Hurt, Selby, Dugmore, Jenvey, Dyer, Henley, Etc...

Paul C

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Saying that we should not have an opinion unless we hunt with him, is no different than telling a woman who does not like prostitution to try it first before deciding she did not like it!

Heck Saeed I see myself as a fair guy so in that mind set I'll be glad to see how those women like sex for free compared to getting paid for it.

I don't care how much someone thinks of MS or how little...I do feel no one should snipe at the man on an internet site...unless they're willing to repeat those same words to his face....risking being dropped on their arses.

I have not hunted will Mike but I did have lunch with him when he lived here in Arizona. His office was close to where I worked. The experience was very positive. He gave me some very straight forward information on hunting and Africa. He made no attempt to sell me a hunt. I am usually pretty good with picking out ass holes. Mike Sullivan was no where close. I left thinking that I would hunt with him no problem.

Maybe some people criticize others who they envy, or they know in their gut that they do not have the courage to tempt fait and show their metal. I saw this in the Marine Corps and found that one should almost always follow your gut. Those that feared and tried anyway often got hurt do to a lack of confidence.

I have watched all of his video's. He can be a little long winded and come off diffrent than he is in person.

Semper Fi
Will

quote:

Originally posted by ALP#4:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Saying that we should not have an opinion unless we hunt with him, is no different than telling a woman who does not like prostitution to try it first before deciding she did not like it!

Heck Saeed I see myself as a fair guy so in that mind set I'll be glad to see how those women like sex for free compared to getting paid for it.

I don't care how much someone thinks of MS or how little...I do feel no one should snipe at the man on an internet site...unless they're willing to repeat those same words to his face....risking being dropped on their arses.

I never say anything about anyone I am not willing to say to his face.

As far as I am concerned, MS is the most UNPROFESSIONAL hunter practicing his trade today.

And I will tell him so in his face if I ever meet him.

Don't know the man have only heard of him and seen comments on this and other forums. Have never seen one of his videos that I am aware of.I beleieve he was a stockbroker for a firm in Phoenix at the same time my wife was. She was not in the Phoenix office. If it is the same person he used his hunting prowess to further his business and was not looked upon too favorably by my wife. To be quite honest I was rather envious of someone who could spend winters selling stock in Phoenix and summers in Africa hunting and be successful at both.

I watched one of Sullivan's hunts last night, Death on The Run, and I have to say it was much better than the other two I have seen. This one is primarily cat hunting, Lion and Leopard. It seems to be pretty much the same kind of hunt as any other cat hunting in the other videos, with the exception of his long-winded commentary, of course. I kind of respect the guy for standing a charge the way he does, though I think it may be as much a case of insanity as it is bravery. He likes and uses really cool, really big doubles, so I can't hate him. I do get bored with all his ramblings, as he seems to repeat himself quite a bit.

In the video I watched last night, the clients made really good shots on the cats, don't think Sullivan even fired a shot on any of the cats. They did have a wounded lion charge that the client had made a good shot on with a .375 bolt gun. The client traded the gun-bearer for his .470 double rifle for follow-up and dropped the cat like a rock at about 40 yards as it charged. Other than that, there was one hippo, which they pushed to charging on dry land, the client hit the rhino low and Sullivan finished him at about 6 feet with one shot. A couple of buff were shot, but Shaun, I assume his son, was the PH and both were typical "true-life" style hunts. Only one buff hunt that I recall with MS, and it was sort of his typical, but not exactly. The client had shot an old buff with some kind of absess looking thing on the left rear leg. He hit the buff 3 times on the initial shots, then they followed up. The buff was laying down in some trees and they were trying to move into position for a finishing shot when the buff got up and charged. The client missed low again, Sullivan's first shot was low, into the top of the nose, stunning the bull and the 2nd was thru the boss almost on top of his shoelaces.

I have mixed emotions on Sullivan's videos and don't know the guy. Of the 3 videos I've seen, the one above is the only one I would recommend, as it seems to be more real world kind of stuff and less of the rest.

Sorry that was so long-winded, thought ya'll might like a review.

David

quote:

I don't care how much someone thinks of MS or how little...I do feel no one should snipe at the man on an internet site...unless they're willing to repeat those same words to his face....risking being dropped on their arses.

Oh come on! I swore I wasn't going to get into this thread, but I just hate the mindset above that says unless you are willing to stand in a dark alley face-to-face with someone who might kick your arse, you can't have an opinion about their unethical behavior. Hey, am I prohibited from complaining about the ethics of organized crime unless I walk up and say so to Tony Sopranos face? Let's all agree to allow disagreements here without too much machoism, OK?

GL: I guess it's hard for me to reason out the ethics of spouting off about someone that you've never met in the manner that Saeed and THFKATH have.
Vicious attacks on his character by someone neither has met.
Certainly one has every freedom to form an opinion on his videos by watching them. Though I doubt they are anymore an example of his every day persona than a 60 minute TV show is of the Tony Soprano's actor....in each case the $ is made by what sells.

ALP#4, you seem to be implying that it is somehow erroneous to make assumptions about Mark's hunting by the videos that he makes, that they are more like an episide of the Sopranos. Maybe so, but I guess he should then advertise these as fiction or fantasy. I have seen one of his videos where he goes on and on explaining why he forces the charge, why he would never shoot beyond 15 steps, why he would never use anything but a solid on Buffalo. All this to try to convince us that his way is the proper way. But I don't remember ever seeing James Gandolfini doing any documentaries trying to convince us on the proper distance to whack someone. Again, I'm not attempting to argue for or against Sullivans methods here, just that we as hunters can have an opinion based on a long series of video hunts and outspoken interviews. I believe that is only fair. Otherwise, noone could ever have an opinion about any politician, poet or prophet unless they have spent personal time with them.

like you said before I really had no interest in getting into this thread...this horse has been beaten before.
I never met Hillary Clinton or her old man and I have opinions about them so I'm in no position to toss stones either!

I guide water buffalo and in several years ,i experimented few charges ,one while filming one male charged another and this last rolled near my feet ,after that it charged me during mate season ,another with bow hunters an injured male,a cow with her calf ,i climbed a tree this episode was with AR members,and the others because i used my dogos on them ,so we must coclude after reading a lot including excelent Boddington work -presented to me by BILL BERLAT- THAT BOVINES RARELY CHARGE .Sullivan are funny videos but if you will go to Africa have a PH like drDON HEATH you will learn a lot ,and have a great fun ,Juan

quote:

Originally posted by ALP#4:
GL: I guess it's hard for me to reason out the ethics of spouting off about someone that you've never met in the manner that Saeed and THFKATH have.
Vicious attacks on his character by someone neither has met.
Certainly one has every freedom to form an opinion on his videos by watching them. Though I doubt they are anymore an example of his every day persona than a 60 minute TV show is of the Tony Soprano's actor....in each case the $ is made by what sells.

We are not talking about his every day persona.

We are talking about what he is actively promoting.

While at the same time he hides the realities of what he does.

We were told by an individual at one of our hunting camps in Tanzania where he got into a fistfight with an outfitter. Because he leased that man's concession to hunt with a client who wanted to be charged - another stupid mentality as far as I am concerned.

Anyway, they did hunt, and after they left, the owner of the concession found several dead buffalo. Apparently these were wounded - most likely on purpose! and as they did not oblige by staying in the open, but went into thick bush.

The wimps did not have enough balls to follow them, so they eventually died.

One day the whole truth is going to come out, and I suspect it is not going to be very flattering to us all as hunters.

quote:

We are not talking about his every day persona.

We are talking about what he is actively promoting.

While at the same time he hides the realities of what he does.

MS is in the business of marketing MS. And it is my bet that he has found the hunting video market to be just as or even more rewarding than selling safaris.

I think the thing that most of us find objectionable is how he markets. His videos, in a nutshell, are not about hunting but about killing.

A 2 hour video on hunting is not as marketable as a 2 hour video with heart pounding action.

Look at Boddington's video on buffalo hunting. I have been critical of Boddington's role as a paid endorser for products he writes about, but as far as hunting goes, the guy knows what he is talking about. An avid hunter can appreciate Boddington's hunting works, but they don't have that Hollywood bloodlust. Boddington is all about hunting. MS is all about the kill.

I am sure MS has another side to him, but let's face it - most hunters that book with him for the first time are attracted by his public persona.

I do not have to meet the guy to have an opinion on his business practices or hunting tactics. In the end, you are what you sell. And what he is selling is the antithesis of a hunter.