Posting on this web site and similar web sites regarding hunting offers in Mozambique concerns me for the following reasons:

PAC. (Problem animal hunts) all problem animal control in Mozambique required the official written authorisation. This is normally given to the government game scouts or in some cases to the concession holder is ask to assist or take care of the animal in question, this have to be done intermediately and not after weeks or months! Any offer for problem animal control hunts to be booked in advance is at least questionable.

Tusk less cow elephant hunting: Ladies and Gentleman there is no such thing as in Mozambique! To hunt any elephant in Mozambique you a required to purchase a full elephant license at a cost of about 5000$US plus you must be in procession of a valid hunting licenses for your information there are no first grade, second grate or local hunter licenses for less$$$ issued. License fees are the same for resident and non-resident hunters!

Fines for illegal hunting are stiff, the minimum is 8x the license fees plus plus�.. and jail sentence is also on the card, obviously guns vehicle and other gear including trophy�s get confiscated! (no refund)

In Mozambique the Minister of Tourism is responsible for allocating game quotas to all concession and to some controlled hunting areas! For game farms and other controlled hunting areas quotas are given by the Minister of Agriculture! My advise if you have any doubt about an offer contact them.

We have like all country�s good, not so good and bad operators, the whole spectrum including �famous(BBC)� lion hunters operating in Mozambique. I come across a lot of references and statements on this web sites and in printed brochures which include the statements of �our� or �owned� concession �s Mozambique got only 11 concessions in total!!! And less than, a hand full of licensed game farms and some controlled hunting areas! Not all of the concession are operating and some have limited resources.

Making false statements about ownership is not a good start to a African hunting experience!

Contact if you got any doubt the relevant Minster to confirm operator and species quota allocation.

Mozambique got good and sound hunting laws but enforcement is weak this can and have been misused by unscrupulous Professional Hunters, Outfitters and Officials.

It is not uncommon for PH�s to show up on shows and marketing hunts in Mozambique to clients without actually having an area themselves or a authorisation to hunt in an area allocated to an operator.

Most of above applies to all African hunting and can be avoided by doing a little research.

Most of these problems can be avoided if you deal with an established operator but also new once have to be given chances it just required a little research effort!

The safari operators in Mozambique would like to welcome you and try to make your safari in Mozambique a enjoyable and unforgettable experience.

Some hope fully contact details:

Minister of Tourism, Maputo, National Director of Conservation areas,
MR. Afonso Madope Tel. 303616 Fax. 306212

Minister of Agriculture , Maputo, National Director Fauna and Flora
Mr. Arlito Cucu Tel. 460036 Fax. 460060


I will try to get a updated list of current operators from AMOS which is the Mozambican outfitters association and post it.

Thanks for the warning. Africa is no place to run afoul of the law.

George

freischuetz - Any information you could provide in regards to hunting in Mozambique would be appreciated by many I'm sure. In particular, I'm curious about the areas around the Cahora Bassa, as there seems to be some emerging hunting opportunities here. I have not heard of tuskless/cow hunting in Mozambique, just Zimbabwe. It would also be great to know what your involvement is with the safari industry, and thanks for any specific info that you can provide! Bill

An interesting and accurate post..... but those who have been to the Zambezi Valley will well know that hardly a night goes by that one can't hear drumming from one native village or another which are an attempt to drive crop raiding Elephants out of the mealie patches. Hence it's not a great problem to get a licence for a crop raider. (in fact from my experience, it's pretty damn easy) I guess I've been hunting the Valley on and off for well over 10 years and I don't think I can think of a single hunt where I haven't been asked if anyone wants to take a crop raider. Perhaps other forum members who have also had actual experience of the Valley can let us know of their experiences. As you say, the authorisation is usually given to the game guard or (from my experience) more usually the concession holder. Certainly, I would always deal with the concession owner rather than the game guard as I never trust a game guard anywhere in Africa to do any more than smell bad.

Tuskless cows: well I don't want to hi-jack your thread, so I won't go into that very deeply. But certainly I've never had the offer of a tuskless cow in Mozambique, but personally I don't believe in sport hunting them at all. IMO Elephant cows should only be shot when it's part of a culling programme where you take out the entire family unit. To do otherwise (IMO) upsets the herd dynamics far too much......but that's a personal opinion and not meant as a criticism to those who disagree with me. Perhaps there's scope there for a seperate debate? The obvious exception to this would be if it were suffering and needed to be put out of it's misery.

does your comment about famous BBC lions relate to the Cook Report thing some time ago? if so, I didn't know they were in Mozambique. I thought they were all based in RSA. Or do you mean they have moved out to Mozambique? If so, I'm suprised......but you're welcome to them. The sooner those type of people go out of business the better. (I'm sure you'll agree)

Concessions: "our concession" is one of those terms that may be interpreted in so many different ways. My website for example states quite clearly that we don't own any hunting areas and are consequently free to offer the client the area most suited to his needs, tastes and finances, but when we decide to use a particular area, we agree and sign a contract with that leaseholder or landowner agreeing a set standard of services & prices etc to cover all eventualities and also camp and area exclusivity . While we're hunting & paying for that area it therefore becomes "our area" at the end of the hunt it reverts back to leassor.

I agree about your comment relating to guys offering hunting they don't have at shows etc. But that's the unscrupulous few and those ethical outfitters amongst us make sure we have the signed contracts before offering anything. But let's face it, this happens all over Africa, not just in Mozambique. Trying to get to the bottom of who might actually hold the lease or own some particular areas can be a nightmare and is usually (at least for me) a sign to steer well clear). A good example ofthis was in Tanzania last year where a widowed wife of a Minister held a lease on an open area and it was being offered through about 6 different middlemen.

you don't tell us much about yourself in your profile, perhaps you would be kind enough to tell us a little more about your background such as how you earn you living, where and type of experience etc....... You obviously know Mozambique hunting reasonably well and I'm sure a lot of forum members would be interested to know more. certainly I would.

Hi Shakari

Couple of points
1) ask any decent wildlife biologist working on sustainable elephant hunting and they will tell you that to prevent the genetic drift induced by constant hunting of large tusked elephant you have to remove deleterious genes from the population - which means shooting tuskless elephants (both bulls and cows)

2) Some operators "dish out" PAC elephant as though they were free. Actually every PAC elephant counts against your trophy quota next time you (as a government) are at CITES trying to convince people that elephant hunting is sustainable. There are no free lunches. True there are some elephants that just have to be shot, but most "Problem" animals can be scared off pretty perminantly by a bullet through the ear. On trial I carried out at Sengwa, It took an average of two and a half years before an elephant would return to crop raiding after a bullet through the ear. A charge of bird shot on the arse kept an animal out of the field for about a month.

Yes PAC occurs. Yes if it is necessary and a client is in camp then it makes sense to let him shoot it, but after March PAC falls right off, untill you only get the grain bin raiding bulls - who are usually the old, big tuskers. Think an honest operator wants you to shoot his best trophies on PAC?

Conversation from a hunt I was on in Tanzania, with a indian guide:
"shoot it shoot it, it is a sable"
Boooom. "Nice trophy, cant wait to get that one on my wall."
"No no, it is not legal. 10 years in a Tanzanian yale!"
"What? we dont have a permit for this, and still you tell me to shoot?"
"Oh, but everything you shot, all days, there were no permits... Qiuck, help me bury the horns..."
"You f**** bastard son of a ******"

He got some permits by and by, but that was a nasty surprise! Yes, we were stupid and went for the cheap sollution. He knew his way around, and I bet he would not be the one in jail! That would be this stupid Norwegian...

Ganyana,

I appreciate your insight into a subject we both obviously enjoy immensly.

I agree wholeheartedly with your comment about removing tuskless Elephants from the gene pool and didn't mean that they should not be culled......I meant that (IMO) the bulls can (should!) be sport hunted, but I personally believe that when the (tuskless) cows are taken out they should be taken out (where at all possible) as part of a proper management programme where the entire family unit is shot rather than just an individual cow, which I believe is liable to affect the dynamics of the herd.

Frankly I've never considered shooting a crop raider through the ear to scare it off. It's a new concept to me, and one I'll bear in mind for next time. How do they react when this is done? I've had a little experience of using a shotgun and even know a guy who uses one of those big catapults to shift them, but a rifle round through the ear is a real interesting concept.

I'm also interested to hear that some of you're crop raiders are old Bulls......this again differs from my (limited) experience. I guess it's probably that Elephants in different areas develop different habits. Here the problem Elephants are generally adolescent teenage bulls who are all full of piss and vinegar...... I can't actually remember the last time I even heard of anyone in this area having problems with an old Bull......but that's what makes Elephants so interesting. They're all so different. As you say, I can't imagine any landowner or leaseholder wanting a big tusker taken as a PAC animal.

Steve if we would only be living in a perfect world?

Lets start with �problem� animals. There is less problem animals than problem people, giving it some thought there is probably more problem PH�s, outfitters and booking agents than problem animals. Not counting mosquito�s and tsetse flies which is also accountable for many deaths.

On a more serious note, yes there are problem animals on occasions and they have to be taken care of, but firstly, one should try to use non- lethal methods and only after this fails should one consider culling. My experience with problem animals are that in only about 10% of the cases culling is necessary.

The true motivation for the �creation� of most problem animals is as follow: Lots of meat (locals) and very welcome bonus income for the PH, outfitter, concession holder and �official�.

How can someone offer problem animal hunts in advance?? Come on, this is BS and everyone with half a brain knows it. It is done only to make some extra bucks, it is illegal and definitely unethical to both the client and the host country. You can call it creative marketing, maximising profit or whatever, but not hunting?

As for Mozambique there is no legal provision for problem animal licenses and no provision that a client can shoot a problem animal! The only legal way for a client to hunt a problem animal would be to pay for a hunting license for the species and then to use this license to hunt the animal, assuring the concession/lease holder has a quota allocation for this animal species. And here is one of the main reasons for problem animal hunts: The concession holder has limited or no quota on these species and every additional �problem� animal sold is profit.

By the way license fees for male and female in Mozambique a the same, be wary of cheaper female offers. Concession holder do not get extra quotas for females it have to come of the normal quota. Bait animals also require a full license and have to be paid for! Theoretical .

For the clients benefit, if you do not have a license in your name for the animal, do not shoot!

For Booking agents benefit get to know the law in the respective country! I suspect a lot of offers are made in good faith based on information received from the concession holder / PH and passed on without second thought. In the age of internet, email, phone and fax, plus we still got a mail system, do your research and if this is not sufficient try a forum like AR or nitro. This is one of the reason I published the contact numbers of the 2 department in Mozambique which dealing with wildlife and hunting. If anyone is interested and I can figure out how to post the complete Mozambique fauna and flora law I would. ( English) otherwise send a pm with your e-mail and I will send you a copy.

Regarding the tusk less cow elephant: In a post about these hunts on AR. Matt Norman posted a reply referring to such a hunt in Mozambique I still would like to know the outfitter which was involved. IMO culling them selective, tusk less cows, ( not outfitters and not the matriarch ) provided population density�s is close to maximum, and there is a unusual high percentage tusk less cows in the population it is good management, nothing other.

Lion hunter of fame:

Yes the one with the longest cable ( ears to brain? ) is now in Mozambique instead of crawling in a hole and disappear he tried some years ago to set up a lion breading program in Mozambique luckily we got to know about it and stopped it dead. Lately he is somewhere hunting in Tete province with a big advertisement on his internet website, search by name and hunting otherwise you come up with a fast food chain.
I am amazed on the amount of business he got from the cooks report. Shows you the different interpretations of sport hunting and the continuous support he receive from �sport hunters� after all, every one got or makes his one view on ethics?

I don�t wont them and I agree with you get them out of business. How? by marking their clients????

Steve you or me wont change the wrongs alone but if everyone this must include clients and booking agents just change the things we be doing and accept a little at the time we can change things, for the better, in the long run.

If hunting will survive then only by honest and responsible self regulation. It seems to me that at times hunters and outfitters are hunting worst (own) enemy�s. and not the anti hunting groups. We are the ones which should have expose the canned lion �hunting�, expose the put and take shooting farms, etc and the hunters (Clients) should expose and spit on people which shoot these canned lions and these record trophies cornered on the fence on the next hunting show or convention! People like this insulting every hunter by calling themselves hunter! As hunters we have to distance us from these killers.

Then let the antis attack the killers or whatever there want to call them, after all we are HUNTER�S, and got nothing to do with this disgusting bunch and would have our house in order?

I still believe ethical hunters and outfitters are out there in the majority lets start cleaning our house! Attack is the best form of defence!

I ask myself often is it worth the trouble then I look at my and other peoples kids, off course is worth it!

We hunters can not depend an organisation such as safari club or phasa to clean up the house. Yes their attempt it on occasions???? In the end only the client can clean it up by not giving their money to the scum.

To �our concession�:

Maybe I am splitting hairs but I would fell better as a client if I know exactly on which property I am hunting. I know you making it quit clear that you do not have a concession to your clients and this is the correct way. But believe me I got hold of a brochure distributed by an outfitter showing my camp on the front page as his camp never mind the people pretending to own my concession in their advertising?? Is just not funny. Any thing from silly to criminal I came across in this regard over the years.

To get to the bottom of who is holding the lease is easy in Mozambique use the phone numbers provided in my previous post! Subleasing is only legal if authorised by the minister in writing!

I know of a case where a RSA outfitter sold shares to clients in a concession in Mozambique which did not belonged to him. In fact he owned nothing in Mozambique. All this could have been avoided by a phone call. This is actually a very bad story because Mozambique offers very secure and affordable long-term investment opportunities in game farms and conservation areas if done in the correct and sensible way.

About myself:

Steve, I am since 1983 in Africa and since 1993 in Mozambique. I hunted for the last 40 years, reload for the last 30 years, fish even longer than both, had hunting dogs (GSP) all my life, got 2 great boys which hopefully will carry on one day soon, permanently under funded , because you outfitter and agents take so much , have to few guns, love bird shooting, and since I got this dammed concession no time to hunt and fish anymore !

Now I spend my time stepping on peoples toes (government, outfitters, professional hunters, conservation organisation, aid organisations NGO�s Bunny huggers, ��..) but I still can look at myself in the mirror without getting sick!
As you can read above I own a concession in Mozambique since 1994 in this days we could still pick the best ones, even so it is more like a very very expenses at time consuming hobby? to me than a business (it was not planed this way).

Any how I seen PH and outfitters come and go in Mozambique. Dealing with government departments and also fighting with them at times I am tolerated by some, respected by others and hated by the rest. Mozambique is as close as you get real Africa and I am privileged and happy to be here.







A man is as good as his word!

bill
you got mail

I personally believe that when the (tuskless) cows are taken out they should be taken out (where at all possible) as part of a proper management programme where the entire family unit is shot rather than just an individual cow, which I believe is liable to affect the dynamics of the herd.



Steve - In Zim, we saw MANY herds of elephant ranging in size from 10-30 elephant, some of which only had one tuskless. Following your way of thinking, shooting the TUSKLESS, at least in the middle Zambezi Valley, would mean eradicating a great many herds and would have a substantial impact on the entire population. I do not agree with this.



Random shooting of TUSKED cows, especially the Matriarchs, is a different situation and debate. Your opinion is shared here by others, including Ron Thomson. Regards, Bill

freischuetz,

Since you're a new forum member, I thought I would pass along this suggestion. You might want to go to your user profile here on A/R and fill in some of the information categories. If you fill in the Location field, then that info will show up next to your user name on your posts. Then everyone else can see what state/province/country you are in when reading your posts.

Just a thought....
-Bob F.

tanks

done that

Hi Shakari

A bullet through the ear when it is outfrom the boddy produces considerable shock- probably more than putting a bullet high into the head (which I have used to turn young bulls that thought they should try beating up on me). I assume that the sonic crac of the round so close to the very sensitive ear drum hurts like hell and that the bullet going through the earr stings quite a bit. At any rate, the usual effect is a terrified squeal and a mad rush towards the nearest park boundary. Want to see how fast an elephant can run - just put a bullet through his ear and watch!

On PAC, in the rainy season the main crop raiders are indeed young bulls, but as the dry season progresses and the crops are stored into grain bins, the old bulls (and cows) come out. They are usually the oldest elephants arround, sunken temples and wrinkles that are really impressive even by wrinkly elephant standards. They know that a single grain bin holds a full days supply of high quality food, and we suspect that a single raid gives them enough protied and carboydrate to support them for a week with little other suplementary food. When your teeth are worn and fresh, soft green leaves a rare thing, a grain bin full of nicely shelled corn is a real treat. It is also usually these old bulls that kill tribesmen - the youngsters are more easily driven off and if they do knock somebody down for trying they seldom come round for a full stomp and gore. Old bulls or cows who just want a free meal are not going to let any pesky man with a burning branch in his hand deter them and often make examles of those that try and press their case too closely.

Here's a link to Matt Norman's comments re: tuskless cow in MOZ.

AR Link

As a side note re: shooting an elephant in the ear. I was faced with this situation in ZIM last season. A cow was protecting her calf. The PH told me to shoot her in the ear if she charged. Fortunately, I didn't have to shoot. I talked to the PH and he told me that a shot through the ear flap was very effective at turning elephants. You want to be careful and shoot when the ear is flared out and don't shoot too close to the head as an elephant's stomach sticks out. You don't want the bullet to pass through the ear flap and hit her in the side. If she is at an angle, then shoot for the off-side ear flap.

Regards,

Terry

P.S.
I have sent a PM and when I get a copy of the Fauna and Flora law of MOZ, I will post it here.

Freischuetz,

You mentioned my name as if I'm withholding information from you ("I still would like to know the outfitter which was involved"). All you got to do is ask me, and I will tell you. Send me a pm or email with your name and phone number, and I will call you and tell you.

Matt Norman
mattnorman@comcast.net

Matt

Matt I never ask you to give me the name, so clearly you a not withholding information from me I just referred to you post, not in any way negative or offensive?
The hunt you mention in your post referred to a friends hunt and not your own.
I don�t blame the hunter in any way clients have to trust their outfitter / PH that whatever and how he hunts is legal.

To protect and inform you, the clients, is the reason I posted my post at AR or did you see any sales offer from me?? After all I got a very good concession too. Not because I don�t want business, its because how would you take the information if at the same time I try to sell hunts on the forum? Logically I would take it with a pinch of salt!

Now before I step on any other members toes the outfitter and booking agents posting on this forum provide honest and excellent information and I enjoy reading it, their posting a wealth of practical advice and it is to the benefit of all.

IMO there is nothing wrong at all for them to offer their business service on the forum!

Matt my apologise if you took my reference to your post as negative or misleading.

Hi freischuetz, welcome to the forum. What do you think are the chances of Mozambique allowing private ownership of land/game? It has a system that sounds a lot like the one in Ethiopia, w/no resident licences, paying in advance, and a very restricted quota! Are there any resident hunters, or do most locals just poach left and right?

Freischeutz,

I agree with you when you say we don't have an elephant problem in Africa at all......we have a human problem. The Elephants were there first, they had their migratory patterns worked out and plenty of space to increase their populations. It's only the human factor that has cut those paths, taken land and infringed on their land......leaving "Elephant islands" all over Africa and wiping out the migratory memory. So even if they could still migrate around Africa they no longer know how to. But let's face it......out of the two populations, it's the Elephant one that is going to get culled every time. Humanity has created the problem and can now only do their best to manage it. There's certainly no way they can solve it.......but again, this is really a subject for a different thread, so I won't go into the pro's & con's of Elephant management. suffice it to say, that I personally believe in sport hunting the bulls and letting that sport hunting finance the proper professional control of the herds.........I don't believe in translocation either. It's a great short term cure, but in the longer term it's actually a disaster.

Licencing systems: Moz has much the same system as Botswana where the outfitter has to buy each animal licence before the hunt. I uderstand why they do it, but as an outfitter yourself, I'm sure you'll agree it's a bloody silly system that actually invites people to abuse it. (IMO) The Tanzanian system where certain species occur on each licence (7 14 or 21 day) and the client then pays the government trophy fee within a set time period after the hunt.....this is a lot more sensible and user friendly....not to say fairer to everyone concerned.

Booking agents getting to know the game laws of the various countries! Without meaning any criticism of agents who post here, most of these actually DO know their business but in all fairness most don't. Hell, I was contacted by a sporting agent in the UK last week who had told a potential client he could shoot a grant's & Thompson's gazelle in RSA! I hear more horror stories about idiot agents than I do about idiot outfitters. Thankfully, there are some agents out there who are professional in their dealings......but even so, I doubt that many know the game laws of the places they offer to clients.

Famous Lion killers:- Wow, I didn't know he'd moved to Mozambique.......As you say, he made a fortune out of the Cook Report which is a very sad comment on one part of the firearm owning fraternity.

Ethical hunters & outfitters: I'm all for some kind of organisation of this kind, but the problem is that it would have no teeth and those clients who want to hunt and do business correctly will try to book with the right person anyway, and those that don't care will book with the crooks and sadly I can't see that changing. Let's be honest, PHASA and SCI are as much use as one legged man at an ass kicking party in this regard.......

Ganyana,

Thanks for the tip. I have to do 2 Elephant dart hunts later this year for a TV documentary and I KNOW that one of the bulls that travels with one of the dartees is going to give me shit because he spends his life doing so....... if he plays up, I'll try your trick and see what happens If it does work I'll make a point of telling the camera who gave me the idea ......I'm also in and out of TZ like a yo-yo this year (assuming office work permits!) and I may well have to try it there also.

Problem tuskers: I guess the grain would be a big magnet to the old buys with buggered teeth. Maybe the reason it doesn't happen here is a combination of good fences and vitrually no grain being produced......although we do have a lot of sugar crops. Can I ask if your grain storage areas are Elephant proof fenced etc?

Can I ask you both to send me an e-mail as I'd like to ask you both something (2 different subjects) that are not worth posting about........thanks.

hi boghossian

Mozambique have the best investment law I seen and is a very secure investment climate. Extensive benefits in tax and import duty exists for investors. If you build up a game farm you have the ownership of the animals. No license fees to pay and you make the quota. Many opportunities in the wildlife, agricultural sector and tourism.
You can have bank accounts in any currency you can take your profits out.
Around the new trans frontier national park a good areas for wildlife related business venture you got a fantastic coastline of more than 2000 km. You can for 250 000$ set up your own game farm of 20 000 hectare or join in with a group of people for a private game reserve for 120 000$ for your own section of 10 000 hectare. Your annual land tax is around 0.19$ per hectare annually and you get a 50 years lease with the option for a other 50 years you do not pay for the land only the annual lease.
However for land under buildings you pay about 15$ per hectare per year and these you own.

Mozambique is secure for me I sold my property in Europe and selling my place in South Africa to invest in Mozambique after working for 11 years in Mozambique I can judge the situation well and I can live without a Zimbabwe situation in South Africa.

To hunting: don�t forget Mozambique is still in a recovery phase and some areas depleted of wildlife most can recover if controlled properly but yes local do hunt and some actually paying for a license.

Mozambique is a big country and have a low population density also all Mozambican can have up to 5 hectare of land for themselves for free. For any more info send me pm I can forward you investment and land law if you interested. just sen a pm

For the record, I have responded to a PM from Freischuetz. Also spoke with the friend of mine that did the "tuskless" hunt in question. Seems the term "crop raider" and "tuskless" are used interchangeably. What my friend went on was a "crop raider" hunt accompanied by a government-employed game scout. It happens that the PH prefers that tuskless or otherwise lesser elephants be culled from the problem herd. Seems reasonable to me!

I've hunted with this long-term, established PH and found the operation proper in every way.

A 50-year lease in Mozambique must be similar to a lease in England since the Crusades.

I would guess it is more like Vegas; don't spend any money to can't afford to loose.

More power to those that are willing to risk it. But just like the DRC and Zim (and RSA), name changes and regime changes can be had at a moments notice.

Shakari

Elephant proof fences- are those the big cable jobs that WWF pay for and are turned into buffalo snares the day after they are errected?

No the PAC ele's don't hit fenced villages.

Went to take some photo's of a squashed floppie a couple of months back. The place had been fenced - village and all arrible land - by WWF about ten years back. All nice and electrified, Solar chargers etc. This fellow died in his field because the fence had been cut and all the electrification kit was stolen three years ago to protest imperialist intervention in tribal areas.

Matt,



I have seen the photo from your friends "tuskless" Elephant hunt. For a tuskless Elephant, she sure did have some big teeth!

Ganyana,

I take your point and appreciate the humour ......don't know if knew this, but as we humans get that yucky white stuff between out toes and call it athlete's foot. Elephants get the same thing between their toes, only it's black and they call it slow native!

Shakari

Two important biological facts on elephants

1) Their sex organs are actually located in their feet -
If they step on you , you're f**ked

2) Hygene concious cow elephants have been using sheep as tampons for the last 300 years. Where did YOU think red wool came from?

PS did you get my Pm?

Ganyana

Excellent