Well are they? For the purpose of this thread we shall define the "DGR" as the typical factory rifle in a large caliber (375 or bigger) with a muzzle energy of 4000 lbft+. The "DGR" need not be custom fitted to the shooter. The "DGR" is just a rifle which is of sufficient caliber to attain proper penetration on heavy potentially deadly game.

Personally, I can think of no major issues with the pump action as a "DGR" under normal African hunting situations. Which means the tourist hunter is backed up by a Pro with a "stopping rifle". Oh yes, let us not confuse the "DGR" with a true "stopping rifle". The "stopping rifle" is what many here believe a "DGR" is.

The "stopping rifle" is of overly sufficient caliber and is fitted to the individual shooter. The sights line up when the rifle is mounted perfectly and require no conscious effort on the part of the shooter. The action is slicker than goose shit and feeds flawlessly. The balance of the weapon is in a word, superb. The best ones are double barreled and start in caliber 500 NE, but the more prefered caliber is 577 NE.

Todd E

[ 06-20-2002, 02:27: Message edited by: Todd E ]

Aren't pumps push feed?

I think that is their major failing.

In addition I am not aware of a pump made in a caliber suffient to qualify as a DGR.

Controlled feed is critical in the independent hunter's rifle or the PH's backup. While desirable, IMO, it isn't quite as critical for the client. So . . . It should be no great deal to rebarrel a pump into 9.3x62 and I suspect that 9.3x64 might not be impossible. Expensive, perhaps, but not impossible. Additionally, wasn't the BPR a controlled feed? I don't remember. In any event, like the lever gun, if you jus' gotta take one to Africa, go ahead. Really can't see the point, m'self.

500grains,

Yes they are push feeds for the most part. I was thinking along the lines of a 416 Taylor, 458 Win Mag, or as Oldsarge points out the 9.3X62 Mauser. One could also easily adopt a pump gun to 405 Win.

The Weatherby DGR (their name not mine) is a push feed also. Undoubtedly some (perhaps many) will be utilized in Africa for dangerous game.

Todd E

Just though you might be inetersted to know that a couple of blokes had those Browning BAR auto's coverted to shoot .458 win mag bullets for Sambar hunting here in the Victorian Alp's. Now they have been banned here, but my point is (correct me if I am wrong) that the Browining BPR is essentially exactly the same as the BAR only operated by a pump, could these pums also be converted to .458 win mag, then loaded with with the Barnes 450 grain X bulllet they would satisfy the power/velocity level's.

Well --- dunno. When I used my Rem pump in Whelen on moose last year, I discovered (thankfully, after recovering the moose) that I had not picked up a round when cycling after the shot.

That is not to say a pump is worse than a bolt action, as I have short-stroked one of those before, too. It just means you can't use your 2 3/4" shotgun stroke on your rifle .

The reason I bought the pump in Whelen, though, is that I hunt elk in Grizzly country, and it feels much more comfortable and quicker than a bolt. 99.9% chance I never will use it, but it makes me feel better, anyway. FWIW, Dutch.

I don't know for sure, and I don't think anyone else does either.

Is there someone who would be willing to sponsor me to go over to Africa and give it a try? I only need them to pay for my airfare, charters, daily rate (21 days ought to be enough time), plus pay for the trophy fees on the dangerous game you want me to try it on. I'll pick up the rest

George

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
Is there someone who would be willing to sponsor me to go over to Africa and give it a try? I only need them to pay for my airfare, charters, daily rate (21 days ought to be enough time), plus pay for the trophy fees on the dangerous game you want me to try it on. I'll pick up the rest
Sponser you? Wasn't it you who said if one can't afford Africa, then who's problem is it?

What sort of chambers are the new Browning pump available in? If in magnum, then it might be suitable to be re-barreled in 458 win mag, 416 taylor, or 375-338. I don't know of anyone having done this, but did read about a BAR being done in 458 with good results. ~~~Suluuq

[ 06-20-2002, 09:55: Message edited by: Rusty Gunn ]

Guys please enlighten me,
I may appear ignorant but I am not a gunsmith, I am just a hunter. I go to the field, I stalk, I find my game, I shoot and sometimes I kill. I use a bolt action rifle, without wondering if it is a push feed or a controlled feed and which one is better, because I don't know the difference. Can you tell me?
Some buddy who knows...

Short stroking a pump is not nearly as likely as short stroking a bolt gun , but if you do , the results are like Dutch's and you fail to feed a round from the magazine . But the gun is not tied up , you get an empty chamber .

For the sake of aguement , visualize the following scenario . Your wife and children are trapped inside your house by armed thugs bent on torturing and murdering them . You have no choice but to charge in and do the best you can . Presumeing the cartridges they shoot are equal in stopping power , and you have a choice of lever , pump , or bolt rifles to do the job ; which one will you choose ? If you would take a lever or pump instead of the bolt , why do you feel they would be reliable enough for that situation , but not for hunting dangerous game ?

I'm constantly seeing in articles that Alaskan guides and people who provide fishermen/tourists with bear protection are using 12 guage pump slug guns. However, the CRF bolt-action is the most sound/trouble-free weapon next to the double.........................CRFs take complete control of the round and positively feed the round straight into the chamber as the bolt is pushed forward and have a much more powerful extraction of said fired cartridge than the push-feed. The push-feed does not have control of the cartridge other than pushing it forward until it's extractor snaps over the case head when fully chambered. The CRF was originally designed to be the most flawless action for use against the most dangerous adversary.....enemy soldiers firing back.

I do not have a pump rifle yet but do intend to put one in the vault one day soon. If they shoot as well as most posters here claim then I see no reason why one would not be the berries in Africa.
I think the control round feed thing is just blown way to far out. Too many things have been killed with firearms that are not control round feed toys.
I know of no big bore rifles in a pump past the 35 Whelen but the 35 W has already proven itself in Africa on many head of game and I do not know the size of all that game and nobody else knows for sure either. Not all buffalo are killed with 375, 416, 470 or 505's.Many have fallen to 300's and 338's and who knows what else!
I took a Browning Lever Rifle in 7/08 to Namibia. Many may have thought me a fool but my wife shot it well and she got her Oryx with it.
I am aware 7/08 is not a big bore but I was using the fact that 'oddball' rifles can kill just as well.
It would be super to have a 9.3 x 62 in a pump to go along with my bolt rifle.
I grew up like many of you with a pump 870 shotgun and I still try and pump all shotguns no matter how they function today.