Kathy,
You were misinformed by whoever you talked to in Holland, reference our tel conversation some time back and what I read on this forum.....

A consent form is required for your fireamrs, regardless of the circumstances and not to have this form in order will result in seizure of the firearms in Great Britton and in Amsterdam your guns will not go to Tanzania or be returned to the USA until such form is filled out and approved and that takes up to 3 weeks...

I just had a close one, fortunately the client was in the military and the Embassy made an exception and walked him through the red tape and got him and his guns on the plane to Tanzania. I was basically informed that due to his rank and as an officer of the military he was not considered a threat to national security but this would not be afforded to any average citizen...

Another piece of sharpnel from 9-11, and a booking agents nightmare, dispite my chillblains and gilflurtations, I am taking half a bottle of aspirin, and going to bed, but alls well that ends well...I just got lucky..

Ray,

Care to elaborate on the issue as regards to the UK?

Its my understanding that as long as the firearms are in transit and remain "airside", there should be no issues with transiting the UK with the exception of passangers going to Zim..we Brits currently have an arms embargo against Zim and that includes sporting firearms as well...actually I believe its an EU embargo, but I never hear of it raising any problems for other European citizens or carriers taking sporting arms into Zim...

Regards,

Pete

Pete,
It is me understanding that the form is still required and they must also be notified 24 hours ahead of time, so as I understand it only minor changes have been made as the form has always been required in Britton...I am in the process of updating myself on these issues, but its all explained on http://www.gracytravel.com....
I talked to Kathi, and she informed me this has allready been hashed out on another thread, which I didn't read apparantly...I usually restrict my reading to the interresting stuff. so as per usual I am a dollar short and a day late....

Ray,

Only speaking about the UK here, but my understanding is that there is no requirement in British Law for any paperwork so long as the firearm stays "airside" ie in transit...

If a visitor wants to bring his sporting firearm into the UK, even if he is just switching airports, he will have to do the red tape ahead of time or they will be in serious trouble, no matter how innocent the mistake is..

To bring a firearm into the UK to hunt or shoot, require a visitors firearms permit..The paperwork is a little different depending upon which Police Force is adminstering it, but its not too difficult and is only around $25...The visitor must have a British sponsor (usually the outfit your hunting with) and its actually they who do the paperwork.

If the visitor simply wants to store the firearm while in the UK or move it from one airport to another (ie not actually use it) there is a provision in British Law to use what is called a "bonded courier"...again this needs to be arranged ahead of time..

In addition to this, most British airlines will want notifying a few days ahead of time you intend travelling with a firearm. BA apparently are very strict in this department and won't let you board if they haven't recieved the notification X days ahead of time...

From what I understand, prior to boarding most British airlines then require you to fill in some sort of declaration form as to what the firearm is and that its unloaded...I had to do this when flying Virgin Atlantic to RSA for instance..I must stress these are rules and regulations of the individual airlines and not British firearm related law...

Where problems may occur is if a visitor is travelling with what the British Government consider a prohibited weapon ie something like a semi automatic rifle or pistol...I have no idea of how things work in these instances, but I would recommend anyone travelling with such weapons via the UK research the issue properly a head of time..

Regards,

Pete

Folks,

For the 503rd time you need do nothing special at all if your guns are transferred from one flight to another within the same airport that you arrive and depart from in Britain. BA does require that you notify them 24 hours before departure that you are carrying guns. Big deal! If your itinerary requires you to arrive say Heathrow and depart Gatwick then you need to enlist the services of a courier. The same applies if you are laying over in the UK. If anybody wants to know a couple of reputable couriers just contact me. The whole proces is very simple.

Actually with the deplorable SAA service of late I would think more people would consider going through London. You even can connect to Air Namibia and fly direct to Windhoek. Eliminates the Frankfurt route.

Regards,

Mark

Mark: your point about the atrocious SAA service (and cattlecar) is right on. I need to find a different way to get back, without doing the SAA Atl to Jo'berg thing again.

However, aside from this seeming paperwork controversy, and with respect to considering alternative routes and carriers to SAA, are the British baggage handlers still being nasty with guncases? If so, that seems a good reason to at least avoid London.

Last year I flew Dulles - Heathrow - Joberg - Windhoek and the same on return. I did not have the British gun permit that I had the year before when I hunted England and Scotland. I checked my two peices thru to Windhoek and never say them until I arrived in Windhoek. When checking in with BA in Dulles they took care of the Captains permission to have the firearms on board (checked baggage). When returning I had to get a speical form for bringing the firearms into England and this only took about half and hour, again I did not see my baggage from the time I checked it in in Windhoek until I claimed it at Dulles.

I have always flown through Amsterdam on KLM. It's a nice flight out of Houston, leaving about 3:00 pm and arriving in Amsterdam about 8:00am the next morning. Skiphold(sp) airport is a wonderful airport with an excellent duty free shop and passengers' lounges similar to President's Club at Continental. I have not had one problem with guns as they are handled by KLM and taken to your connecting flight to Kilamonjaro(sp)airport. I even had to lay over in Amsterdam because a stewardess had a heart attack on the flight over. We had to return to Houston and missed the connecting flight. KLM put me up in a nice hotel and arranged for me to connect the next day. KLM held my guns in a security locker and stuck them on my connecting flight with no problems. I believe that if you requested a special handling order from KLM to hold your guns at Skipold and intentionally hold over, I think you could this. Maybe someone has done this on the forum and could say so.

Regarding flights though Amsterdam, I'll add that I was ready with my consent form when flying though there in late June but was never asked for it. I passed through Holland with my guns just as if this new regulation never existed. I had the same experience when flying back through there from TZ. I talked to a fellow from PA when I was in TZ and asked what his transit through Amsterdam had been like. He said that that he had to show them his consent documents. Further conversation revealed, however, that upon arriving in Holland, he started asking who he needed to show his papers to, and of course, they found someone for him that wanted to see them. But if my experience is any indication, I'd have the forms ready but if you simply keep your mouth shut and enjoy your brief layover in the Amsterdam airport, the entire concern about Amsterdam's new gun policy seems overblown.

I just flew through Holland, Joburg to Bulawayo a month ago. Had all my prerequisites in order, told Northwest that I had firearm/ammo and the nice folks at the counter checked everything all the way to Bulawayo even though I spent an overnight in Joberg KLM took care of the luggage (rifle etal). Loaded on to SAA the next morning and everything showed up as it was supposed to. Did the same thing on the way back excluding the overnight in Joburg without a hitch. I did follow Gracy travel's instructions to the letter. I think once the Dutch permits are issued they may be somehow connected by computer to show thatpermits were issued over and back. I even asked in Joburg about the overnight and flight the next morning and KLM said they would take care of everything and they did. Follow directions and it's not usually too complicated.I used the same airline arrangement several years ago to Tanzania without a problem. I think the ill prepared and ill informed usually are the ones that have trouble. If you use the knowlegable travel agent recommended on AR many problems can be avoided.

A friend just went through Amsterdam and his rifle went on to RSA after some hassles but they confiscated all his ammo. All his papers were in order. They just didn't want to hear it.
The trip was arranged by a well known and experienced agent(Gracy). The Dutch just weren't letting any ammo in that day!
Fortunately the PH had 20 rounds of 30.06 and that was enough to just get him by. With the gun laws in RSA now you may be in deep do do if your ammo doesn't arrive too.

I just flew thru Heathrow to Lusaka and return.
Good service in all areas except lost one of four bags for 12 days. Terrible followup in Lusaka. No problems at all in London.

Funny though I had a hard time from a ticket agent in OKC with American Airlines. She thought I needed a permit to go to London. I couldn't get her to understand "airside".

I had to go to a third level surpervisor before it was streightened out. Good thing I got to the airport early.

Bullsprig

I'd rather ride in a cattle car and arrive with my guns AND ammo than ride in relative luxury and possibly not have the tools to undertake the safari.

Then again, some enterprising lad at the JoBerg airport might see fit to acquire someone's rifle and ammo.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Duc:
SNIP!
Fortunately the PH had 20 rounds of 30.06 and that was enough to just get him by. With the gun laws in RSA now you may be in deep do do if your ammo doesn't arrive too.

I beg to differ, not to be smart, but to inform: The Temporary Import Permit SAPS 520 issued to visiting hunters who bring their own firearms and ammunition into South Africa also entitels the holder to purchase ammo in the caliber of the firearm from a dealer. You may be in deep do do if your travel plan does not allow you to visit a dealer with your TIP. Or if you choose a wildcat or oddball caliber for which standard factory ammo is not available. But the 30-06 and the like calibersa can be bought in quite a selection from dealers.

In good hunting.

I had significant hassles of my own making getting the required permit forms and approvals from the officials in the Netherlands. They did their part in a timely fashion, and sent me fax copies of the transit forms for my trip going and coming through Shipol(sp?) Airport (Amsterdam). I made two or three copies of these forms, put them with my travel documents, and was never asked for them coming or going.

I suspect that they check the list of passengers flying with firearms against the list of passengers with transit permits, and you may expect inquiries if traveling without the proper documentation.

Regarding ammo, there is a place on the form for declaring the caliber, type, & amount of ammo that you are carrying. I carefully filled this out, and had no problems transitting with arms and ammo. Kudude

In the UK as long as they remain in baggage and for a time not exceeding 12 hrs,your free and clear..I know,I just returned.....Now emershits air is totally different. They will say your ok,and transport you on their aircraft(and at the rate they slide off the runway,I use the term craft loosely)..They will transport you to the bowels of hell on their flying crap, then tell you you lie on floor like dog for 21 hrs cause guns are not allowed on their air crap...And in the 21 hrs they'll tell you how they cant be to careful in the middle east because the world has a terrorism problem dont you know...I'm going to write a whole thing about emershits,and rag head central,but I gotta calm first....I can tell you one thing for certain...They are thoroughly of the belief that a good whitey is a dead whitey...Sorry if I offend,as I've said before,that dirty ol truth can do that at times