I have shot elan with 270 and 375 caliber rifles.

Never noticed that it made any difference at all.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr B: Gerad
Is a Eland larger that a Cape Buffalo? If it is that would mean that all you need for Buff is one of these smaller rounds with a HV bullet.
DR B

I don't think it is size over the fact that there are caliber restrictions on the dangerous game....as well as I have never heard of an Eland killing as many people as a Cape Buffalo.


I plan on hunting Eland with 250gr. Grand Slams through my .338 Win. Mag.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I have shot elan with 270 and 375 caliber rifles.

That's a nice battery right there.

There are many cartridges based on the 30-06 case that I wouldn't hesitate to use on eland assuming the proper Swift A-Frame was inserted.

These include the.280 Rem, 30-06, 338-06, 35 Whelen, 9.3 X 62 and wildcats of .375 and .411 on the same case.

Saeed's use of the .270 is something I'd consider for the better shooters/hunters among us.

quote:

Like any other animal you can kill eland with relatively small calibers and bullets if the shot is perfect. When hunting you may have to take a less than perfect shot at a departing animal and with something the size of an eland a bigger caliber with a heavy bullet is probably prudent to get the penetration needed. In my mind the 375 seems to be about right and is practical for whatever other animals you maybe hunting along with the eland.

Mark

I agree with Mark. The worst shot I've ever made on African game was on an Eland. After spying him at about 400 yds. on a narrow sendera (Texas talk for a long narrow opening) I ran about 200 yds. though the bush parallel with the opening to close the gap. I had a strong breeze in my favor. I stepped out a little under 200 yds. and fired at him facing straight at me. My shot was low (I was breathing pretty hard after the sprint)and went under his chest blowing out his left rear knee. Not knowing where I was, he came at me at full gallop on three legs. I put three more .375 H&H 300 gr. Nosler Partitions in his chest with no apparent effect. He collapsed about 20 yds. from where I was standing and still required a coup'de'gras.

Once that adrenalin starts flowing, it's a new ball game. I regret the poor shot but I'm glad I wasn't shooting anything smaller than my .375 H&H. I have lots of guns. I suppose my .338 Ultra is great medicine for all plains game. I know it's amazing on bear. But I still take the .375 for all plains game, including Eland. The added advantage is, if you stumble on a Cape Buffalo that suits your fancy, you've got the tool to do the job already in your grip.

With all due respect, and I do not mean this as a criticism of your experience, a bad shot is a bad shot. We've all made them. Adrenalin aside, and that is a significant factor for both hunter and hunted, when an animal is running the ability to place a perfect shot is greatly diminished. At that point, a large caliber may not be any better than a smaller one. Within reason, of course.

I was once on a caribou hunt in Newfoundland. After several days of bad weather and endless glassing I spied a shootable stag. The stalk brought me to within 150 yards when he winded me and bolted quartering away. At 170 yards I made an off-hand standing shot with my .270 and hit him solidly where I aimed behind his shoulder. As he kept running my guide yelled at me to fire again. I did so and wound up hitting him in the rear left leg. Mind you, this was over fissured tundra so he was bouncing up and down as he ran. He went down at the shot and as I came up behind him he was still very much alive. I gave him a coupe de grace through his heart from low and behind. It turned out I had first hit him 4 inches below his heart.

I can't honestly say a bigger caliber would have killed him with that first shot.

quote:

Buglemintoday
one of us

Posted 11 February 2007 19:16 Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Dr B: Gerad
Is a Eland larger that a Cape Buffalo? If it is that would mean that all you need for Buff is one of these smaller rounds with a HV bullet.
DR B


I don't think it is size over the fact that there are caliber restrictions on the dangerous game....as well as I have never heard of an Eland killing as many people as a Cape Buffalo.

It's my understanding that caliber restrictions are not uinversal in Africa. Saeed loads .308 win solids for Buffalo hunting in Tanzania.

I personaly don't care what caliber someone uses for any game much less eland or Buffalo. But I do get tired of people beliving that the smaller calibers are not deadly and capable of killing any animal on the plantet.

DR B

A guy that used to post here, named Allen Day, reported his having killed three Cape buffalo with his .300 Win Mag and 200gr Winchester Silvertips if memory serves me.

I know a guy that shoots Eland behind the ear with a .308 with good success. A .223 between the eyes will probably work every time too. I am capable of making both of those shots with pretty good consistency. I am also pretty good offhand on running game (I have witnesses ).

Nonetheless, I do believe, as did Elmer Keith and as do many others, heavy bullets increase your odds for success - particularly when the optimum shots are not presented.

Hence, I carry calibers well above the prudent minimum.

I've taken 2 with a .308. Both fell to a single, 165 grain Trophy Bonded. One was at 90 yards with a slight quartering angle and the other was broadside at 140. Neither made it more than a few steps.

I took 2 more with 180 grain bullets from a .300 WSM. One dropped in its tracks after the bullet went through the near shoulder socket at 105 yards. I shot the other one 4 times, although it was dead on its feet after taking a 180 grain XP3 on a steep quartering angle. My policy is to shoot them as long as they're still up, so I did. It probably wasn't necessary.

I've shot 3 eland with a .375 H&H with 300 grain TBBCs. Shots were from 75 yards to 180. All 3 dropped within a few yards of the shot.

If you shoot them properly the first time, eland are quite soft. As long as you have enough horsepower to get to the vitals, you'll kill them cleanly. If you shoot them poorly, however, all bets are off.

onefunzr2 wrote:

quote:

You seem to be saying, without equivocation, that your 130gr .308" bullet is meant for use against eland, zebra and gemsbuck.

I have taken Impala, Blesbuck and Kudu with those .308 130gr GSCHV bullets - one shot killings on a monotonous basis, obviously with proper shot placement.
Planning to hunt Gemsbuck somewhere during May 2007 with .308 130gr GSCHV. Know now already it will be a successful hunt.

quote:

Yet on 2 separate threads, NO ONE has admitted using that lightweight bullet against such heavy game animals.

Again used 7mm Rem Mag 130gr GSCHV, also one shot killings, on Bluewildebeest and Redhartebeest and won't hesitate to use any of the above calibres with 130gr GSCHV on game up to Eland size - quite confident about that!

I would suggest that you personally first try .308 130gr GSCHV (not any other 130gr bullet!) on your local white tail deer (as well as much larger antelopes in your part of the world) and only then express your opinion in such a 'know-all way' as you have done up to now.

I shot an eland a few years ago with a 375 and 300 grain TBBC bullets. The eland was quartering to me with only front from shoulder forward showing. I shot it at the base of the neck and it was flattened. After administering coup de grace and going bullet hunting we found the first bullet flattened on the spine. It looked like a silver dollar! The spine was not broken. It worked OK but I think I would use something tougher bullet wise from now on. My next eland will be with TSX bullets.

I shot one with a 20ga paradox at just over 1100 fps, broadside shoulder, it ran 30 yards and fell over.

I think Eland are quite soft in comparison say to BWB.

I would definitely have to disagree with everyone who has said that a .375 and up is needed to hunt Eland. I shot mine with a .300 WSM using 180 gr. FailSafes. My first shot was at 130 yards broadside, which cut his heart in half. He hunched up and trotted about 5 yards and I double lunged him quartering away. He did a back flip, then tried to get back up again. My third and final shot was broadside when he was on his knees trying to get back up. He was dead in about 30-45 seconds. I'm sure he would have died quickly from the first shot, but as long as he was standing, I was going to continue shooting. Two of the three shots exited. Just put your bullet in the right spot. I've heard of plenty of one shot kills on Eland with .270's using proper bullets.

A South Africa acquaintance of mine shoots eland with his .243.

Dr B,
A big eland bull is heavier than a cape buff. The big difference is the nature of the beast. An eland, when hit, will run, if it is capable of doing so. A cape buff, when hit, will often deliberately run at you, if it is capable of doing so. Many eland have run after being hit with big calibers as they will also do if hit badly with a smaller caliber. The same with cape buff. The bottom line is that you cannot kill an animal of that size with energy or momentum or any kind of knock out value table. You have to permanently damage a vital organ and for that you need a bullet that will track straight, go deep enough and not break up. If the bullet is going fast enough so that the animal is concussed at the shot, it helps a lot to prevent it from getting going with a reactionary death run. Cape buff are more often than not hunted in thick stuff and shots may be deflected, hastily fired or otherwise compromised in many ways. Eland are generally taken under much easier conditions that are more conducive to placing the shot with greater precision. Bullet designs must be modified to accomodate these differences. When surgical precision is lacking through circumstances or compromised ability, a bigger club is always very comforting. It does hit harder.


onefunzr2,
I am sorry if my post was not clear, I thought it was. To clarify: A monometallic, expanding, copper 130gr bullet such as our HV is perfectly adequate for animals up to kudu, gems, bwb and such. It is overkill for deer and antelope under 200lbs. For the meat hunter who is not pressed for time, or suffering from buck fever because he has flown halfway around the world and is suddenly confronted with the trophy of a lifetime, any bullet/caliber capable of shooting through will do. Be careful of making the mistake of comparing the performance of a jacketed lead bullet with that of a copper mono of the same weight. It is the continuous failure of jacketed lead bullets that got me into the bullet making business in the first place.

"Perhaps they fear ridicule from the learned majority." This is probably true but I would like to remind them that the majority is very seldom the "learned". The majority usually express an uninformed popular opinion. I see a number of posts have now appeared expressing the opinion that lighter calibers and bullets were indeed used sucessfully on eland. To this I might ad that amongst the eland that I know of, taken in 2006 with HV bullets, were two with a 140gr HV (303 British) one with a 130gr HV (7x57) and one with a 75gr HV in (243). All were one shot kills.

Just to clarify my thoughts on 9,3x62 on eland. I am very fond of expanding monos. My father (since 1975) and me afterwards, were using Hirtenberger’s ABC bullets (to my knowledge it was the first expanding mono – developed in late1960’s - first production around 1970) in 7x57R, 7x64 and 8x68S. IMO no doubt that copper or tombak expanding monos lift a bullet into higher class according to its terminal performance compared with the same caliber/weight jacketed soft. Since I don’t reload (yet), and after RUAG took over Hinterberger, ABC production was discontinued since. The closest there was left for a nonreloader is a CDP bullet by RUAG or swift A frame from Norma. So to remain in the same league – 9,3x62 with jacketed softs, was an obvious choice (would be even better with monos tho). But wouldn’t hesitate for a moment if I could get my hands on factory load with expanding mono in 7mm, .30 cal or 8 mm and use it on eland.

P.S: Still think 9,3 and up is still better.