Looks like John Jackson was right. He told me those in who hunted Elephant in Zim in 2014 and 2015 would not get permits thanks to the result of the SCI lawsuit. There is no census data for those years and that was the denial reason. Info I submitted about anti- poaching didn’t matter.

USFW are the enemies of African animals!

Hmm, clearly your elephant hunt did not have a detrimental effect on the population of elephant since some taken after yours are exportable. Do they expect a yearly census?

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
Hmm, clearly your elephant hunt did not have a detrimental effect on the population of elephant since some taken after yours are exportable. Do they expect a yearly census?

You are taking a logical path to the solution.

USFW have no clue what is happening in Africa!

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
Looks like John Jackson was right. He told me those in who hunted Elephant in Zim in 2014 and 2015 would not get permits thanks to the result of the SCI lawsuit. There is no census data for those years and that was the denial reason. Info I submitted about anti- poaching didn’t matter.

Damn! Sorry to hear that.

Have you filed for an appeal on the decision?

Hey Seed,

Sounds like someone needs a lawyer. I know how much you hate them. But it's either that or give up.

First of all it says it was refused because of SCI getting their lawyers involved.

Second is USFW should have no say in anything being exported, under CITES rules from an African country where all legal matters were met by the hunter.

USFW is carrying on the tradition of the West dictating to other countries how to run their economies!

Saeed,

No disagreements about USF&W. But a lawyer might be useful.

Can't tell you how many times the other side gave in from just a letter on my letterhead, or a lawsuit, if necessary.

quote:

But a lawyer might be useful.

In some cases that would be a viable option but when against a case that has potentially unlimited financial backing, it might work out more cost-effective to just go and shoot one or more exportable elephants in 2022/23.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Saeed,

No disagreements about USF&W. But a lawyer might be useful.

Can't tell you how many times the other side gave in from just a letter on my letterhead, or a lawsuit, if necessary.

Last time I got a threatening letter from a very famous, Harvard educated lawyer, I wrote on it, by hand, some choice words describing him, his family and all his ancestors, and sent it back to him.

later that morning a very close friend called, asking if he could come over with his friend, the Harvard educated lawyer, to apologize for the letter he had sent.

Told him he is welcome to come, but not his lawyer friend.

Never heard from him again!

quote:

Originally posted by Safari Specialty Importers:
Have you filed for an appeal on the decision?

No, do you have any positive experience getting 2014 or 2015 Zim elephants imported? I'm inclined to believe John Jackson's take on the situation.

I am sorry to hear this.

The USF&WS is a rogue bureaucracy. It needs to be de-fanged.

Only the right President and Congress can do that.

I received notice from USFWS last week that the import permit for the bontebok I shot in 2017 was denied. According to the USFWS, the RSA had no management plan in place, and no research done to prove that hunting a few animals was beneficial to the survival of this "threatened species". It matters not that it is the private landowners that prevent the bontebok from becoming extinct, and hunting is the only way to give the species a value. The landowner has told me that at present he cannot sell any hunts for bontebok, and the species no longer has any value to him. The reality is that if he eliminated the bontebok he would be able to graze more sheep, and actually make some money. My hunt was fair chase, but cutting to the core of the matter, I bought my bontebok from a business owner, making it my personal property, which a rogue agency prevents me from possessing. The USFWS is, in fact, a rogue bureaucracy.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Hey Seed,

Sounds like someone needs a lawyer. I know how much you hate them. But it's either that or give up.

If I remember correctly the government wins 90%+ of their cases

quote:

Originally posted by samir:

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Hey Seed,

Sounds like someone needs a lawyer. I know how much you hate them. But it's either that or give up.

If I remember correctly the government wins 90%+ of their cases

Shows you how stupid and worthless lawyers are!

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Safari Specialty Importers:
Have you filed for an appeal on the decision?

No, do you have any positive experience getting 2014 or 2015 Zim elephants imported? I'm inclined to believe John Jackson's take on the situation.

We received a similar notice from USFW for one of our clients who hunted an elephant in 2014. We are in the process of pulling information to present to USFW as a rebuttal. We will keep everyone informed on the outcome and any further information we receive from USFW on similar cases.

What was the exact response the John Jackson and Conservation Force received regarding the denial and the lawsuit? Is it just that USFW cannot get biological records from Zimbabwe for that time period?

quote:

Originally posted by Safari Specialty Importers:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Safari Specialty Importers:
Have you filed for an appeal on the decision?

No, do you have any positive experience getting 2014 or 2015 Zim elephants imported? I'm inclined to believe John Jackson's take on the situation.

We received a similar notice from USFW for one of our clients who hunted an elephant in 2014. We are in the process of pulling information to present to USFW as a rebuttal. We will keep everyone informed on the outcome and any further information we receive from USFW on similar cases.

What was the exact response the John Jackson and Conservation Force received regarding the denial and the lawsuit? Is it just that USFW cannot get biological records from Zimbabwe for that time period?

From my denial letter.

Saeed,

If you'd retuned a letter like that to me, You'd have been formally served shortly thereafter. And then I'd have met your lawyers. Followed shortly by a notice for your deposition. I'm an asshole, but I respond in kind.

Sorry, we're not in that situation, so no need for me to get belligerent. My point was I don't take no for an answer.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Saeed,

If you'd retuned a letter like that to me, You'd have been formally served shortly thereafter. And then I'd have met your lawyers. Followed shortly by a notice for your deposition. I'm an asshole, but I respond in kind.

No you wouldn't.

I am hoping you are not as stupid as him.

HE did not write the letter, it was written by one of his minions, and put HIS signature on it.

It was regarding a bounced cheque, which was issued by his sister in law.

Bounced cheques at the time are punished by imprisonment.

We locked our place, which they had rented, and had several bounced cheques from them.

He threatened to break the lock, and I told him it will be the last thing he does in his sorry life!

If he had attempted that, him and his sister in law would have rotted in jail.

That is why he was so anxious to come over and apologize.

His minions thought a threatening letter from a well known lawyer will make everyone tremble with fear!

He learnt his lesson!

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Safari Specialty Importers:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Safari Specialty Importers:
Have you filed for an appeal on the decision?

No, do you have any positive experience getting 2014 or 2015 Zim elephants imported? I'm inclined to believe John Jackson's take on the situation.

We received a similar notice from USFW for one of our clients who hunted an elephant in 2014. We are in the process of pulling information to present to USFW as a rebuttal. We will keep everyone informed on the outcome and any further information we receive from USFW on similar cases.

What was the exact response the John Jackson and Conservation Force received regarding the denial and the lawsuit? Is it just that USFW cannot get biological records from Zimbabwe for that time period?

From my denial letter.

This is the same message we got on the letter we received. SSI will be working to appeal the decision, and will keep y'all updated on the result.

quote:

Originally posted by Safari Specialty Importers:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Safari Specialty Importers:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Safari Specialty Importers:
Have you filed for an appeal on the decision?

No, do you have any positive experience getting 2014 or 2015 Zim elephants imported? I'm inclined to believe John Jackson's take on the situation.

We received a similar notice from USFW for one of our clients who hunted an elephant in 2014. We are in the process of pulling information to present to USFW as a rebuttal. We will keep everyone informed on the outcome and any further information we receive from USFW on similar cases.

What was the exact response the John Jackson and Conservation Force received regarding the denial and the lawsuit? Is it just that USFW cannot get biological records from Zimbabwe for that time period?

From my denial letter.

This is the same message we got on the letter we received. SSI will be working to appeal the decision, and will keep y'all updated on the result.

I'd like to see those results in less than 40 days. Good luck!!

I’m glad I live in Canada if it’s legal to hunt I can bring it back. So far a Cheetah, Black Face Impala, and a Bontebuc. Thou with the idiots in government it may not last long

USFW, and like minded idiots in Europe, are defeating the whole purpose of CITES.

CITES was supposed to facilitate the economic viability of preserving animals.

That countries which have to look after them benefit from it.

CITES issued certificate by a producing country should be accepted by other countries for import.

Of course, this is not happening.

In its utterly stupid convoluted way, the West is dictating to the rest of the world how they run their countries.!

Love the logic, by denying the import of tusks of an animal legally hunted in 2014 it will suddenly ressurect him back to life and that is how USFW saves animals.

Same as burning piles of confiscated tusks!

I hope that you get your permit Jim. Did you have a trip planned for this summer?

Lawsuits get more traction than letters. Pay a lawyer, biologist, expert on applicable import laws…and sue.


Seriously. The legal dept is separate from the regulatory side. Allege personal bias, political bias, and anti-science management.


It’s the only way things change.

quote:

Originally posted by lockingblock:
Lawsuits get more traction than letters. Pay a lawyer, biologist, expert on applicable import laws…and sue.


Seriously. The legal dept is separate from the regulatory side. Allege personal bias, political bias, and anti-science management.


It’s the only way things change.

And will that cost of that suit which has no guarantee of success going to cost more than another Ele Bull hunt?

quote:

Originally posted by Capt.Purvis:
I hope that you get your permit Jim. Did you have a trip planned for this summer?

Hi Clark,

No trips planned for this summer. Just got back from a 7 month roadtrip in the lower 48. We will camp and hunt in Alaska this year as usual.

Antarctica in January February 2023.

Cheers
Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Safari Specialty Importers:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Safari Specialty Importers:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Safari Specialty Importers:
Have you filed for an appeal on the decision?

No, do you have any positive experience getting 2014 or 2015 Zim elephants imported? I'm inclined to believe John Jackson's take on the situation.

We received a similar notice from USFW for one of our clients who hunted an elephant in 2014. We are in the process of pulling information to present to USFW as a rebuttal. We will keep everyone informed on the outcome and any further information we receive from USFW on similar cases.

What was the exact response the John Jackson and Conservation Force received regarding the denial and the lawsuit? Is it just that USFW cannot get biological records from Zimbabwe for that time period?

From my denial letter.

This is the same message we got on the letter we received. SSI will be working to appeal the decision, and will keep y'all updated on the result.

Any update!!

Howdy Frostbit,

We have submitted the data and information that we received from both the outfitter and Zim Parks. We are waiting on a decision from USFW. I will post any updates when I receive them.

Wyatt Fetner

MY buddy got his permit approved for an ele take in zim in. 2018. 4 years it took!

quote:

Originally posted by Safari Specialty Importers:
Howdy Frostbit,

We have submitted the data and information that we received from both the outfitter and Zim Parks. We are waiting on a decision from USFW. I will post any updates when I receive them.


Wyatt Fetner

Any update. F&W only gives you 45 days on appeal.

quote:

Originally posted by Safari Specialty Importers:
Howdy Frostbit,

We have submitted the data and information that we received from both the outfitter and Zim Parks. We are waiting on a decision from USFW. I will post any updates when I receive them.

Wyatt Fetner

Your post is dated May 9th. Today is June 29th That's 51 days. USF&W allowed 45 days for an appeal.

So what was your outcome?

quote:

Originally posted by Safari Specialty Importers:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Safari Specialty Importers:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Safari Specialty Importers:
Have you filed for an appeal on the decision?

No, do you have any positive experience getting 2014 or 2015 Zim elephants imported? I'm inclined to believe John Jackson's take on the situation.

We received a similar notice from USFW for one of our clients who hunted an elephant in 2014. We are in the process of pulling information to present to USFW as a rebuttal. We will keep everyone informed on the outcome and any further information we receive from USFW on similar cases.

What was the exact response the John Jackson and Conservation Force received regarding the denial and the lawsuit? Is it just that USFW cannot get biological records from Zimbabwe for that time period?

From my denial letter.

This is the same message we got on the letter we received. SSI will be working to appeal the decision, and will keep y'all updated on the result.

It's long past the 45 day appeal window. What ever happened with those you appealed?

[/QUOTE] This is the same message we got on the letter we received. SSI will be working to appeal the decision, and will keep y'all updated on the result.

It's long past the 45 day appeal window. What ever happened with those you appealed?[/QUOTE]

Bet I know the answer to that question, same as my appeal…no.

A black hole of silence from SSI….

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Safari Specialty Importers:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Safari Specialty Importers:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Safari Specialty Importers:
Have you filed for an appeal on the decision?

No, do you have any positive experience getting 2014 or 2015 Zim elephants imported? I'm inclined to believe John Jackson's take on the situation.

We received a similar notice from USFW for one of our clients who hunted an elephant in 2014. We are in the process of pulling information to present to USFW as a rebuttal. We will keep everyone informed on the outcome and any further information we receive from USFW on similar cases.

What was the exact response the John Jackson and Conservation Force received regarding the denial and the lawsuit? Is it just that USFW cannot get biological records from Zimbabwe for that time period?

From my denial letter.

This is the same message we got on the letter we received. SSI will be working to appeal the decision, and will keep y'all updated on the result.

It's long past the 45 day appeal window. What ever happened with those you appealed?

Howdy Frostbite,

Apologies for the delay in response. I had not checked back to this thread as we have been busy with the flurry of elephant permits that were approved and getting those shipments in.

USFW received the information that we provided and are still communicating with the Zimbabwe Parks department regarding this particular permit application.

The 45 day window was to provide the additional information for the appeal, not when they would make a decision regarding it. Our appeal is still pending and I will provide a full update when we receive a decision from USFW.