I think there is a whole lot more to this than is being made public. It seems damn near impossible to make this work from a financial standpoint if this is the entire story.. It would not at all surprise me if this was ultimately part of a massive scam of some sort.

Larry

No scam and that on my word and a few of the AR guys can say they have meet me and when i gave my word thats all you need.

Luan

I know Luan and he he tells you something you can take it to the bank. he's one of the most honorible men i have ever known in my 58 yrs on this earth. I hope to be able to spend time with him and his lovely family again the first part of next month.

quote:

Originally posted by ddrhook:
I know Luan and he he tells you something you can take it to the bank. he's one of the most honorible men i have ever known in my 58 yrs on this earth.

1100% correct.

I'd rate Luan as one of the finest men (and finest friend) I've ever met in my entire life and I'd bet my life, wife and home on him any day of the year......

He's also a highly skilled PH, excellent outfitter, an extremely shrewd businessman and the best host I've ever met.

Thx guys.

Shakari you know onething i mis our once a month meetings in the pub and sorting out the worlds problems but hopefully after this year i will semi retire and come and visit you and the lovely wife.

Hook thank you sir sorry for the other day but like you know im as busy as hell this side driven the last two weeks over 10000km and doing work and some fun hopefully we get to get together next month.

Luan

Luan

Yup, I also miss those lazy, long, afternoon lunches......... and hope you all manage to get over here.

You'll be very welcome indeed!

I've lost a good bit of money over the years farming. Had to work away from home to support my farming habit. It's nice to see a breeder make a good sale and I hope the genetics of the cow and calf (maybe a bull calf?) justify the price and they don't line breed them. I also hope the calf has already been born and is doing well; it's a heck of an investment on what might be. It's a long rocky road from bred cow to an improved herd. Sometimes the cow and calf both die. It's been my experience that the better the pedigree, the more likely there are birthing problems. While the purchasers are not hobbiest as best I can determine, it takes a lot of ready cash to make such a purchase. Commercial farming is not usually a game of ready cash. Here in my area, hobby farmers often have more ready cash and were often my best sales and sources for quality breeding stock, for me. A regular farmer couldn't afford to put that kind of time and money in a few animals. The folks that bought this animal have invested heavily in it and I wish them well.
The good news for the industry is that high prices for good breeding stock make it likely that more good breeding stock will come. THe bad news is that it raises expectations and often mark a very cyclical market place. It can make the industry stonger and hopefully other species more likely to be around in huntable numbers.
There is an old story about three farmers winning the lottery. The youngest said he was going to travel and see the world. The middle aged guy said he'd pay off his bills and retire in town. The old guy said he's just keep farming til the money was gone.
Bfly

quote:

Originally posted by Black Fly:
Had to work away from home to support my farming habit. Bfly

I don't think I've ever met a farmer in western Canada under ~60 yrs old who wasn't in the same boat and that includes about half my family.

Dean

quote:

I don't think I've ever met a farmer in western Canada under ~60 yrs old who wasn't in the same boat and that includes about half my family.

It ain't just Canada, farmers have to be the dumbest people and biggest gamblers on this planet. Make a profit one year out of seven, break even one year out of six. Farming is the biggest crap shoot ever developed!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

I don't think I've ever met a farmer in western Canada under ~60 yrs old who wasn't in the same boat and that includes about half my family.

It ain't just Canada, farmers have to be the dumbest people and biggest gamblers on this planet. Make a profit one year out of seven, break even one year out of six. Farming is the biggest crap shoot ever developed!!!

That is worth remembering next time we sit down to a meal.

I will have to vouch for Luan as one of the most honorable men and gracious hosts that I have ever met. I hope to visit and shoot rifles out of your den again, Luan. I consider young true friend.

quote:

quote:
We hunted eland for 2 1/2 days before finally getting the right bull at the right time.


Is that considered a long hard hunt? I believe many a hunter would sign up now if they were assured an eland in 2 1/2 days hunting.......

How true !

quote:

I do not know many outfitters that will inform a client that there are none of the animals of his choice in the area at the moment and is willing to refund him his deposit.

I assume that this is the same as some sheep farmers do over here.
You buy a ram off me today for 500,000 with all the attendant publicity. The ram is really worth 100,000 so I secretly buy a bale of hay off you tomorrow for 150,000. You get the 50,000 extra for your complicity and I get a lot more for each of the rams progeny because they were sired by such a famous ( and obviously superior ) stud.

Later entry< been out of the country myself
LUAN no explanation need my friend i know your busier than one legged man in a butt kicking contest OPPPPPPS your are temporarily one legged tooo welcome to the hop along club

quote:

Originally posted by ddrhook:
welcome to the hop along club

Maybe you could form an arse kicking association together?

Please excuse me if this has been said already but how can we complain about (over?)inflated values placed on breeding stock with exceptional genes? After all, the driving factor is WE HUNTERS seeking outstanding trophies and willing to pay a premium for it! Maybe those willing to pay these prices are the minority but they are still the only thing that makes this worthwhile for a businessman who is merely making an investment.

Steve,
that a great idea and i think we will talk about it when i'm in RSA next month.

http://allafrica.com/stories/201205030769.html


Namibia: The Most Expensive Lion-Feed On the Planet
By Daniel Steinmann, 3 May 2012



Certain species of rare game are in a very large, very unpredictable asset bubble, and this will have a major impact on conservation and community development in the years ahead.

Two weeks ago, newspapers in South Africa were abuzz with the news that two rich businessmen each paid about R20 million for a buffalo. At the same auction, so-called golden gemsbuck (oryx) fetched around N$900,000 per animal while the usual exorbitant prices were paid for sable, roan, tsessebe, white rhino, black-faced impala and even waterbuck. These events also echoed in Namibia as it was reported that the breeding stock for the golden gemsbuck is Namibian in origin.

I was in South Africa at the time of the auction so it naturally drew my attention when I heard of two buffalo cows seemingly made of gold. Several articles appeared in various newspapers and from these I learned of the famous game auction. Going from the common-sense viewpoint that no buffalo in the world, even if it were the very last one, could ever be worth R20 million, I started reading up on the event.

At some point I wondered if the reporters did not get their currencies mixed up suspecting the prices were possibly cited in Zimbabwe dollars, but I double checked. No such mistake, and by the way, that currency is history.

Checking a list of these species and their performances at game auctions, I realised high value game is not called "high value" without reason. Foot and Mouth free buffalo exceeded the one million rand mark a few years back. Another fact that presented itself from the auction lists was that the buyers consisted mostly of the same crowd. In other words, the sellers and the buyers buy from each other consistently, with only a few new names on the list.

One must realise that in the game industry, there are only two potential buyers: Game farmers who hope to breed offspring that will match their parents in value, and trophy hunters, the end-consumers of these highly valuable animals. The latter is in very short supply as can be confirmed by the number of hunter clients that visit Namibia every year. Still, these hunters are usually well-off, some being very very rich, and do not mind paying about N$200,000 for an elephant, N$500,000 for a white rhino, and around N$60,000 for a sable. Prices in the hunting profession are determined by trophy value so elephants with longer tusks are more expensive than their less-endowed brothers. Similarly, sable's horns must exceed a minimum length to be included in the Safari Club International register, or listed in the famous Roland Ward hunting bible.

This does not mean that the non-trophy individuals of rare species have no value at all, it only means they are not as expensive, but expensive they still are.

But notice from the rough figures I have quoted, that none of these animals go into the millions. They are still relatively cheap when compared to the auction prices.

So what is it that game farmers expect or hope for, that I am missing, or that the rest of us, is missing.

When one buys a buffalo cow for R20 million, it means she has to produce 20 calves, all trophy animals, before the investment realises a profit. Given that it takes anything between seven and twelve years for the individual animal to reach that age and growth where it can compete for the trophy label, we are looking at a 30-year investment. That is indeed long term and that is only possible if the buffalo lives that long, and produces a calf every year. This is a sign that somewhere, someone, is wasting money, or does not care for the return on investment. I suspect the latter.

In practice, these prices push up the price of game everywhere, including here. I shall not be amazed when white rhino jumps the N$5 million mark at our next big auction. But same as what happened to tsessebe, even the rare animals proliferate, and over a period of years, as the rare game species become not so rare, prices will come down again.

In the meantime it makes it very difficult for local communities who want to restock conservancies, to afford the animals. It also poses a serious conservation threat as nobody who has paid a million dollar for a single animal, will ever tolerate any predation. It means high-value game makes their owners rich, but it leads to the extinction of lion, cheetah, leopard, brown and spotted hyena, and wild dog.

Had a good look at the SENATLA bull being auctioned - there are several prominent features about that animal that are unconvincing - nice set of horns though
A cow up for sale in a separate Lot; she too had something strange about her.

Great stuff. Anybody got pictures maybe Chris Troskie. What does a 48" to 50" trophy bull go for on a big game farm or private game reserve out of interest. There was a 46" that was posted for $17000. Part of the fun of buffalo hunting is the unexpected and when the Tsotsie bulls turn on you with a charge!

This could be of interest to some; http://www.agriworldsa.com/art...wsletter%20final.pdf

Also refer to the article in the African Hunting Gazette, Vol. 17 issue 4, page 28/29.