OK, I'm pretty new to larger game hunting. I've shot some squirrels, rabbit, quail, but never did get a deer. This was about 8 years ago.

Getting back in to hunting now with the goal in 2 years of going to Africa to hunt Eland, Blesbok, Kudu, Wildebeast, Impala, Springbuk, and Warthog.

I am used to tactical rifles (AR-15s, carbines, FALs) and am looking for a bolt action rifle that will allow me to hunt deer, elk, and the above-mentioned African game.

I want something that won't kick my butt with recoil, offer me a wide range of loadings, be reliable, lightweight, and get me on target at ranges of up to 300 yards.

I have a Tikka T3 Lite in .223 that is a joy to shot. I ran across a .30-06 Big Boar Tikka rifle that as a 19" barrel, is 6.1 pounds, 3 round detachable magazine, blued, synthetic stock, and also has Williams iron sights on it as well.

Would this meet my needs as described above?

Thanks!

John,

The 30-06 is very popular over here. It would handle anything on your list well, with good bullets and good shot placement. It may however be marginal for the Eland if you're not offered a classic broadside shot. This can be overcome by using premium, heavy bullets (200gr>which will penetrate, and hold together with good expansion.

A 270 is mabe your answer it will be to small for the eland but will do on all the other game its also a flat shooter. i only suggest this because of the recoil.

personaly i will go for a 375 loaded with 200gr gs custom bullets at 3000f/sec for long range hunting and 300gr for bushveld but there is recoil involved but you can shoot anything with it

another option is a 338win mag but it doesnt give you the option to use on dg (restricted by law ) although i think it is possible

the 223 is a nice gun we use it for culling but very few places allow it and if they do its only on small game.

i suggest a 375 and down load it

John,

Welcome to the Forums.

That rifle has a far too short barrel for this cartridge. I really have no idea why Europeans make rifles chambered for cases as large as the 30-06 and put such short barrels on them.

I would pick a rifle with at least a 24 inch barrel - preferably longer.

I'd agree with Saeed and add that the 375 H&H magnum wold be the ideal calibre for your needs and as 375 fanatic said, it'll also allow you to take the dangerous game.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I really have no idea why Europeans make rifles chambered for cases as large as the 30-06 and put such short barrels on them.

Saed, it is a kind of fashion lately but the idea of short barreled rifles derives from a couple of reasons here in EU:

1. Mountain rifle - saving weight (based on military WWI rifles - Mannlicher)

2. Night hunting from a closed tree stands (bears and boars) - shots are close (~30-50m) and in the dark one must take care when getting ready for shot, not to knock on anything with a barrel (game is very alert and close).

3. Tracking job - before regular 50 cm barrels were produced, guys that did tracking wounded animals simply choped off the barrel to make passing through thick stuff easier - coupe de grace is delivered from a close range also, so no need for long barrel.

But beside above, it is more of a fashion than anything else - definetively weak for up to 300m in Africa.

quote:

I really have no idea why Europeans make rifles chambered for cases as large as the 30-06 and put such short barrels on them.

You know, Saeed, 19 inches is longer than the 10 to 15 inch handguns some of us use to shoot cartridges such as the 30/06 Springfield. Some hardy souls even have handguns chambered for the likes of the 458 Lott and 375 H&H Magnum (I plan to have a barrel made for my Encore in 375 Weatherby). That said, for a rifle of just about any kind, I'm not an enthusiast for short barrels.

As far as African cartridges are concerned, I also think the 375 H&H Magnum is hard to beat though the recoil may be a bit much for some.

My point was that people can have short barreled rifles if they chose, but they should have them chambered for smaller cases.

I have several rifles that have 20 inches barrels that are chambered for cartridges like the 270 Winchester, 7x64 and so on.

Their velocities are very low, which I am sure can be duplicated by lesser cartridges.

I have been hunting with a rifle that has a 26 inch barrel, including some VETY think bush in Africa, and have never found it to be of any hinderance at all.

At the end of the day, one choose the rifle that suits him. And me personally do not like short barreled rifles - for hunting - at all.

The 30-06 will be great but i would recomend that if you are going to be buying a new rifle rather get one with a longer barrel. when a barrel is too short it can affect the pointability and handling characteristics. Some Ph's carry guns with 19in barrels but generally 21 is considered short

The Tikka my father-in-law got in .338 magnum could not be loaded from up top. (We found it for him because he wanted a lefty in a caliber he could use for Africa.) Detachable magazine had to be loaded / reloaded before insertion into the rifle. Very accurate rifle, but I hate the loading feature. Forget the Tikka.

BNagel

If you are used to and like your Tikka T3 lite, maybe a 270 (WSM)? I have used this combo for deer, and antelope so far. No complaints.

As an all purpose plains game rifle for Africa I use a 7x57 with 175gr bullets and don't feel undergunned either in case of distance or effectiveness on all and any plains game including Eland. It can be a light quick handling gun and recoil is negligible. It does require careful placement of shots but I have never found that to be a problem in Zimbabwe where I have hunted. I use 175gr Nosler Partitions and the performance has been admirable. I rarely take a shot beyond 250yds but would feel perfectly comfortable taking a shot to 300yds with it. My problem with range is first estimating it and second wind doping which I am very poor at in both cases. I use a rangefinder when possible but that is not always the case and I have found the mythical PH's ability to estimate distance to be mostly that , A myth at the longer distances. The aversion to short barrels is very mis-placed in most cases. An argument can be made against them on a noise basis but there is little real loss in accuracy or energy by all tests. My 416 Rigby and favorite 375H&H both have 21" barrels and perform more than adequately on anything I have used them on.

if you are averse to a 375 with 270 or 300gr bullets as mentioned by Steve, and an '06 is what you want to play with, then fine.
I am hesitant about eland with anything less than a 200gr bullet under an ideal broadside condition with a '06. I like 24 to 26" barrels.

30-06/ 180 grain barnes TSX federal factory loads will be good enough for eland.
A 22 to 24 inch barrel is what I recommend. Remington 700/ Kimber/ CZ/ all make good guns. Get a leupold 2.5 to 8 VXIII and go hunting.

Personally, I wouldn't use any .30 caliber on an eland. Danm things are as heavy or heavier than buffalo. Of course, bullet placement is everything and I suppose eland have been killed with .22 Hornets. But at the end of the day, why use a marginal caliber for eland? The .30-'06 would be fine for all the other animals on your list.

Thank you all very much for such prompt replies and not making me feel like a total "new guy" - some of these internet forums can be quite harsh.

I was wondering about the barrel length myself - seemed rather short for a powerful cartridge like the .30-06 cartridge.

The reason I liked the .30-06 is that it seemed like a round that was just touching on the edges of the higher-end rounds like the magnums but without the harsh recoil. And I thought it would be preferable to a 7x57 or .270 in overall terms of power, range, etc.

I think I will definately consider a longer barrel - maybe 22 inches at the least.

Now, are detachable magazine rifles not allowed in certain places or are they fine as long as they are not over 4 or 5 rounds? The Tikka is only 3 rounds.

Next I have to determin the optic to go on it. I have a lot of scopes, including Zeiss 3-9 and 4-12, as well as Sightron S2 and Big Sky, including one that is 1.5-6x which seems rather interesting, especially for the type of stalk hunting that I will do.

I would simply buy a CRF bolt rifle chambered for the 375 H&H and be done with it! If you ever go to Africa, you will return, I guarintee you!

There is an old saying that is prudant advice, that reads: "when hunting in buffalo country use a gun capable of stopping an buffalo!"

You will end up buying a 375H&H rifle anyway, you may as well start with one!

.............By the way, welcome here, you have found the proper place to get real information!

Mac,
Where's the fun in that? For me part of planning trips is new guns!

JohnCrighton:

From your description of "Tactical rifles" I gather that you know how to shoot -and not always at four legged targets! ( No need to answer but if I'm wrong, I apologize)

You don't mention where you want to hunt. I agree with MacD37 - If you might be in Cape buffalo country, why not carry a 375 H&H? (or larger)Since I assume you are a shooter, you may really like the 375. (It "pushes" against the shoulder and doesn't "jolt" like a sledge hammer against you. So you can get in lots of range time long before you see Africa. Don't worry about being overgunned. Eland is the biggest antelope you'll see in Africa and zebra are so tough that the lionesses' gang up to take one. Oh, yeah, one last word. The longer barrel ( at least 24") is so you can aim better at a target at distance - not like shooting at close quarters in bad light. Like I said, I apologize if you don't know about shooting in such circumstances.

Mac, you couldn't be more right about the .375 H&H.

Mac,
I too agree with you! I have not hunted Africa yet, but my 375H&H has! I loaned it to Retrever when he won the trip from Saaed, and he sure enjoyed it! He bloodied it in Africa before me, but what are friends for!

quote:

Originally posted by gerrys375:
JohnCrighton:

From your description of "Tactical rifles" I gather that you know how to shoot -and not always at four legged targets! ( No need to answer but if I'm wrong, I apologize)

You don't mention where you want to hunt. I agree with MacD37 - If you might be in Cape buffalo country, why not carry a 375 H&H? (or larger)Since I assume you are a shooter, you may really like the 375. (It "pushes" against the shoulder and doesn't "jolt" like a sledge hammer against you. So you can get in lots of range time long before you see Africa. Don't worry about being overgunned. Eland is the biggest antelope you'll see in Africa and zebra are so tough that the lionesses' gang up to take one. Oh, yeah, one last word. The longer barrel ( at least 24") is so you can aim better at a target at distance - not like shooting at close quarters in bad light. Like I said, I apologize if you don't know about shooting in such circumstances.

You are correct in your assumptions regarding my shooting experience. Low light and CQB are what I know. Unfortunately, that also means I know light recoil and lots of fluid, dynamic targets where shot placement is not as important as VOLUME of shots.

I guess my only concern with the 375 is the cost of ammunition and finding one from a manufacturer that I like - I don't see any of the Tikka line offering it.

Would a .338 Win Mag or 7mm Rem. Magnum come close to it and be better than a .30-06 for the larger game?

John,
Welcome to the Board. It'a a body of much knowledge and strong opinions

You might consider a double. If you are in doubt about handling a .375 H&H, perhaps a 9.3x74R with an extra set of 7x65R barrels. It may not be a 300-yard rifle, but then I've never fired at anything 300 yards away, preferring to hunt closer, and the longest you are likely to shoot anywhere in AFrica except the Kalahari is 200 yards with most shots much closer.

Regards, Tim

Sako makes a fine rifle in a 375. If you like Tikka you should check it out.

The 338 would be a step in the right direction, but when you get right down to it, I don't think you are going to find a big difference in the cost of ammunition for a 338 versus a 375. You won't be sorry with a 375.

The 7mm is actually a .275 caliber, and won't pack the same stopping power as a larger 30 caliber. Yes, Bell killed more than a few elephants with a .275, but his shot placement and knowledge of the elephant brain placement from all angles was outstanding.

There are also some nice rifles in the 9.3 x 62 - practically an equal to the 375. Many of the European makers have more than a few models to choose from in that caliber.

On my first trip of many trips to Africa way back in 1983 I took a .458 and a .30-06. After killing my buffalo I put the .458 away and have never used it again. The .30-06 served me well on everything I pointed it at on that trip and a couple more.

Later, I took up a 7mm Rem Mag and have never looked back. It shoots flatter and has less recoil than the .30-06, and it accounted for a one-shot kill on the only eland I've taken.

I have two .375 H&Hs, but I don't want that much recoil on a rifle I'll shoot more than a couple of shots with on a typical African hunt.

For those of you who can stand the recoil, the .375 definitely is the best choice for an all-around rifle. You will be overgunned on North American game, unless you plan on a polar bear or one of the largest brown bears.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Manion:
Sako makes a fine rifle in a 375. If you like Tikka you should check it out.

The 338 would be a step in the right direction, but when you get right down to it, I don't think you are going to find a big difference in the cost of ammunition for a 338 versus a 375. You won't be sorry with a 375.

The 7mm is actually a .275 caliber, and won't pack the same stopping power as a larger 30 caliber. Yes, Bell killed more than a few elephants with a .275, but his shot placement and knowledge of the elephant brain placement from all angles was outstanding.

There are also some nice rifles in the 9.3 x 62 - practically an equal to the 375. Many of the European makers have more than a few models to choose from in that caliber.

Last time I checked a 7mm is .284 caliber

quote:

Originally posted by JohnCrighton:
I want something that won't kick my butt with recoil, offer me a wide range of loadings, be reliable, lightweight, and get me on target at ranges of up to 300 yards.

This part of his request SCREAMS 30-06!!!

I took a 338 win and a 30-06 on my first plains game safari. The 338 hits harder than the 30-06 and is my first choice for all plains game, but I am not recoil sensitive. If dangerious game is on the menu then a hunter should be willing to accept heavier recoil. The minimum DG rifle for me starts with a 416, with 458 Lott being the best.
To hunt Cape Buffalo you are talking at least $10,000.

I reccomend that you shoot a 30-06 and then shoot a 338. Do you hunt deer where you live?

Heck every hunter needs a 30-06.

quote:

Last time I checked a 7mm is .284 caliber

Yep. You're right. 7mm is .284 inches.

I'm sure that extra 9 thousandths of an inch over the 275 pretty much invalidates my statement about stopping power over something in the 375 class

I used a .30-06 as my primary rifle on my first trip to Africa. It performed perfectly. I took a .270 for my next trip, and I was disappointed. The .30-06 is going back with me on my next Safari!

LLS

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Manion:

quote:

Last time I checked a 7mm is .284 caliber

Yep. You're right. 7mm is .284 inches.

I'm sure that extra 9 thousandths of an inch over the 275 pretty much invalidates my statement about stopping power over something in the 375 class

Not much difference in a 270 (.277) and a 280 (.284). I guess a gun nut like me and I suppose you, just has to have a couple of rifles in each. Just wish I could shoot more gane with each.

Get and take TWO rifles. The .375 and the 30-06.

results of 338 (13 plains game) and 30-06 (5 plains game) safari

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php...t/all/gonew/1#UNREAD

My rule of thumb for plains game is a minimum in the 30-06 class and maximum in the 375 class. I would stay away from 19 inch barrels though. There are enough rifles chambered in 30-06 that there is no excuse to accept less than a 22 inch barrel for a plains game rifle.

Having said that, my personal preference is to err on the heavy calibre side. While being "overgunned" is a meaningless concept (provided you can handle the recoil), it IS possible to be "undergunned".

It's pretty hard to go wrong with the 375 H&H!

I just did a quick check on commercial ammo for the 375. You can get it from 235 grains up to 350 grains. The 235 grain ammo states it gets 3000 fps out of a 24" barrel. Pretty flat shooting I'd say.

The reason I checked is that while the 375 is great for elk here and even the big plains game in Africa, some people may think it would be a bit much for deer. With a 235 grain bullet, that should not be an issue.

The thing about Africa is that while there are animals you go to hunt, there are also those that hunt you.

There are more than enough ammo choices for the 375 to cover just about anything in the big game category in North America or Africa. There aren't many calibers that offer a range of bullet selection in excess of 100 grains.

Lots of good advice here on barrel length.

Recoil tends to be very subjective. A lot of it can depend on the stock design and certainly the weight of the bullet you are using. If you are jumping from military type calibers to big game rounds, it would not be a bad idea to shoot a 375 to see if is comfortable for you. I did not catch where you are located, but there are more than a few guys here who wouldn't have a problem with meeting you and letting you put a big bore rifle through the paces.

Tikka T3 in 9.3 x 62 sounds like it would suit you perfectly for this safari.

I´ve usually taken only one rifle on safari and have never had a problem -9.3x62 would be perfect for all plainsgame, IMO a .338 would be the next best thing.

I think a 22" barrel 30-06 shooting 180 or 200 gr. Noslers is an excellent choice for you..I would not go below 22 inches myself.

I would prefer a Win. M-70 pre 64 or a Mauser action as I prefer the control feed rifles. A std. weight pre 64 with a 24 or 26 inch barrel is a fine rifle, a Featherweight in the same with a 22" barrel is an excellent choice..A Mauser with those same specs is just as good. The std. weight rifles have a little less recoil I suppose, but I can't tell any difference..I say a pre 64 but any of the new control feed Winchesters qualify IMO...

The 7x57 is a nice rifle also but the 30-06 is an icon, and it is simply the best balanced round in existance..It will do anything.

I used the 30-06 in Zim last year to take warthog, bushbuck and leopard. I love the caliber. It was my first rifle. I also had along a 458 Lott and a 375 H&H. I will take the 06 to Africa again, but never on a single gun safari. I think if you're taking something larger, the 06 makes perfect sense. I agree with UEG - 06 and 375 are perfect for the range of plains game.

You know, a 375 Ruger Alaskan would be a pretty good choice. Recoil is not bad, it's light, doesn't cost a fortune, and while the current factory ammo may not be ideal for DG, it should handle PG pretty easily...

Get the 30-06, if your PH is concerned about using it on the Eland, see if he has a 375 that you can use. Odds are that he will.

TerryR