Recently I have come across Jack Brittingham's 2003 field reports of the safari that is featured on his dvd "Quest for Tanzanian Big Game". Apparently when they first got to see the lion they were not sure if it was a shootable specimen as it was a pride holder. However, after a discussion via sat phone with the concession holders (I believe TGT, correct me if im wrong) they gave the go ahead as they considered the lion had already been holding the pride for 3 years, the time of a takeover was close, and the pride's cubs were already old enough to not be dependent.

I recall however being told a different side of the same story in which the PH first refused to take that lion and there was a ruckus until Jack got the go ahead from TGT.

I wanted to know if that lion would still, as of 2019 standards for lion hunting regulations, be suitable for being taken.

A shocking piece of video and the PH was bullied into submission and JB forced the taking of the pride male.

Note in the film the PH is glum from thereon throughout that safari.

I booted JB out my camp My last words to him were fuck off.

I thought all pride males were off limits i. e. not to be shot. Can a PH ever be sure unless he has kept or has access to data on all the lion in any one area?

I think this incident happened in TGT's part of Maswa GR so wouldn't there be nomad males moving in and out of Serengeti?

A very tough situation for PHs, I think.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
A shocking piece of video and the PH was bullied into submission and JB forced the taking of the pride male.

Note in the film the PH is glum from thereon throughout that safari.

I booted JB out my camp My last words to him were fuck off.

From everything I have heard, I think JB behaves very poorly while on safari.

This includes poor treatment of staff.

Just what I’ve heard. I have never been in camp with him.

Andrew,

With those comments alone, not to mention how you seem to conduct yourself and your operation here, I know that I would love to share a camp and a few whiskeys with you.

quote:

Originally posted by Dahav:
I thought all pride males were off limits i. e. not to be shot. Can a PH ever be sure unless he has kept or has access to data on all the lion in any one area?

I think this incident happened in TGT's part of Maswa GR so wouldn't there be nomad males moving in and out of Serengeti?

A very tough situation for PHs, I think.

I forget who the PH was but by all accounts an outstanding man in his profession. The difference between him and me was that he was gainfully employed and I am freelance.

I did the JB hunt for Richard Bell Cross as I am his first choice PH and what a pathetic fellow JB is. However when he treated our staff like shit I gave him his first warning. The second warning was two fingers.

A truly disgusting character that shot a pride male against the wishes of the PH.

quote:

I booted JB out my camp My last words to him were fuck off

Ill buy you a Bells anytime! Good man.

quote:

Originally posted by Venture South:

quote:

I booted JB out my camp My last words to him were fuck off

Ill buy you a Bells anytime! Good man.

Anytime mate.

quote:

Originally posted by shoulderman:
Andrew,

With those comments alone, not to mention how you seem to conduct yourself and your operation here, I know that I would love to share a camp and a few whiskeys with you.

Thank you and is has been my privilege to hunt with the best of fellows. JB is the worst.

I haven’t laughed this hard out loud in awhile. The wife was staring at me wondering what was so funny. Like repeated before, you’re one of the good guys so when comments like that are made, people not in the industry get a proper look.

quote:

I booted JB out my camp My last words to him were fuck off

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Dahav:
I thought all pride males were off limits i. e. not to be shot. Can a PH ever be sure unless he has kept or has access to data on all the lion in any one area?

I think this incident happened in TGT's part of Maswa GR so wouldn't there be nomad males moving in and out of Serengeti?

A very tough situation for PHs, I think.

I forget who the PH was but by all accounts an outstanding man in his profession. The difference between him and me was that he was gainfully employed and I am freelance.

I did the JB hunt for Richard Bell Cross as I am his first choice PH and what a pathetic fellow JB is. However when he treated our staff like shit I gave him his first warning. The second warning was two fingers.

A truly disgusting character that shot a pride male against the wishes of the PH.

2 fingers is so british one should have been enough ... he is not the only doing show that is really an ass in reality ...

What a sad story.

Seems to separate the great men from the mediocre idiots!

Well done Andrew!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
What a sad story.

Seems to separate the great men from the mediocre idiots!

Well done Andrew!

Watch the video and make your own opinion. The PH said no! Those cubs were dependant on that male and subsequently would have been killed by another incoming male.

If the pride male is very old or disabled then sure take him out but this is a very rare occurrence and that is not what happened here.

quote:

Those cubs were dependant on that male and subsequently would have been killed by another incoming male.

I bet "Cecil" killed a few cubs in his day. Innocent little Cecil....A bit off topic but could not resist.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
A shocking piece of video and the PH was bullied into submission and JB forced the taking of the pride male.

Note in the film the PH is glum from thereon throughout that safari.

I booted JB out my camp My last words to him were fuck off.

I remember being in camp with you not too long thereafter. The details you shared were quite shocking to say the least.

We did in fact toast his absence I believe.

Jeff

.

Mr Baldry! For you to loose it and kick someone out of camp with two fingers up the the guy must have been a total arse! Happy for you to buy the single malt and tell me the story next time we hunt ! He must have really got under your hide!

.

quote:

Originally posted by Aurelium Fitch:
Recently I have come across Jack Brittingham's 2003 field reports of the safari that is featured on his dvd "Quest for Tanzanian Big Game". Apparently when they first got to see the lion they were not sure if it was a shootable specimen as it was a pride holder. However, after a discussion via sat phone with the concession holders (I believe TGT, correct me if im wrong) they gave the go ahead as they considered the lion had already been holding the pride for 3 years, the time of a takeover was close, and the pride's cubs were already old enough to not be dependent.

I recall however being told a different side of the same story in which the PH first refused to take that lion and there was a ruckus until Jack got the go ahead from TGT.

I wanted to know if that lion would still, as of 2019 standards for lion hunting regulations, be suitable for being taken.

I must (again) be out of the loop: who the hell is Jack Brittingham and why should I care?

quote:

Originally posted by Charlie64:
.

Mr Baldry! For you to loose it and kick someone out of camp with two fingers up the the guy must have been a total arse! Happy for you to buy the single malt and tell me the story next time we hunt ! He must have really got under your hide!

.

My hide is thick. But nobody speaks to my people with discontent and as a PH they are my family and deserve compassion and respect.

Like Drong said who the hell is Jack Brittingham.

I have no comments directly on this, because I don't know anything about it. That said, his oldest son I met here in Anchorage while he was stationed up here in the Air Force. He seemed like a very humble, respectful, and well put together young man. I also believe he went to The Air Force Academy.

Brett

quote:

Quest for Tanzanian Big Game

is there a link to the video?

quote:

Originally posted by Dahav:
I thought all pride males were off limits i. e. not to be shot. Can a PH ever be sure unless he has kept or has access to data on all the lion in any one area?

I think this incident happened in TGT's part of Maswa GR so wouldn't there be nomad males moving in and out of Serengeti?

A very tough situation for PHs, I think.

TGT has a book with pictures of every male lion in their area, so I'm sure they looked him up, before making the call.!
I have that film, and because of this thread, I dug it out and re-watched it! As Andrew (fairgame) says that JB was disrespectful to his staff, and I don't doubt his word. However having watched that film in question twice to try to get any negative outcome especially the glumness of the his PH, I simply didn't see it. When they took the lion the PH was jumping with joy just like JB, with wide smiles, and back slapping like he had just shot the new world record lion!

I'm not saying that TGT did not override the PH's decision against the taking of this lion, but it didn't show anything in the film to indicate the PH displeasure with the taking of that lion.

Since all I have to form an opinion of this situation, I'll have to side with Andrew because he simply doesn't strike me as one to make up stories, and I'm sure if JB disrespected Andrews staff he was lucky to get out of camp in one piece!
It is too bad because I really enjoyed that film, and that was an outstanding lion. If it was taken by bullying the PH to get it done, then that makes the film a flop!

…………………………..Sad state of affaires!

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by Dahav:
I thought all pride males were off limits i. e. not to be shot. Can a PH ever be sure unless he has kept or has access to data on all the lion in any one area?

I think this incident happened in TGT's part of Maswa GR so wouldn't there be nomad males moving in and out of Serengeti?

A very tough situation for PHs, I think.

TGT has a book with pictures of every male lion in their area, so I'm sure they looked him up, before making the call.!
I have that film, and because of this thread, I dug it out and re-watched it! As Andrew (fairgame) says that JB was disrespectful to his staff, and I don't doubt his word. However having watched that film in question twice to try to get any negative outcome especially the glumness of the his PH, I simply didn't see it. When they took the lion the PH was jumping with joy just like JB, with wide smiles, and back slapping like he had just shot the new world record lion!

I'm not saying that TGT did not override the PH's decision against the taking of this lion, but it didn't show anything in the film to indicate the PH displeasure with the taking of that lion.

Since all I have to form an opinion of this situation, I'll have to side with Andrew because he simply doesn't strike me as one to make up stories, and I'm sure if JB disrespected Andrews staff he was lucky to get out of camp in one piece!
It is too bad because I really enjoyed that film, and that was an outstanding lion. If it was taken by bullying the PH to get it done, then that makes the film a flop!

…………………………..Sad state of affaires!

The PH in question is indeed very experienced and professional and he knows the Lions in his area and this Lion was off limits hence HIS decision to abort the shooting of this male.

Note I was also all smiles during my safari as PR is a big part of my job.

Let me give you a short introduction to this character:

He never introduced himself to me on arrival and seemed pissed at something. Could have been jetlag? On arrival to a remote fly camp he announced he wanted to take Sitatunga with a bow. That was not the deal and all the blinds were set for rifle. He was in tow with then Amy Martin who is a good friend of ours and folk like the Knowletons.

From day one he refused me to accompany him into the blinds. Day two he pronounced if he did not see a Sitatunga the following day he was cancelling the safari. So I took him to the blind I had sat in where indeed there was a very big Sitatunga. Both Amy and the scout exclaimed that it was huge and he turned to me and said he could not see it so go pack your shit.

No worries I am a professional and can deal with that sort of behaviour. He started cussing Corey Knowlton and my good friend Richard Bell Cross for the hunt. No worries. He started cussing my staff - first warning. He then wanted to prove I had a license for Sitatunga and forced me to produce all paperwork having accused me of attempted poaching. Note Mac I am still all smiles and I would have celebrated a Sitatunga with him like any other.

Amy was to hunt a Sable and enroute back to camp came across a giant. His remark to her was if you want to effing shoot it shoot it. She politely declined and we proceeded.

In camp I called up Richard Bell Cross and explained we had a problem child in camp.

At the dinner table that evening he asked how many Lechwe had we arranged for him and Amy to shoot. Note he had previously ordered one and it was previously explained to him that the Government concession had limited quota and he had to be very specific about numbers of this specie. This I nicely explained again to him.

His reply was to tell me to fuck off and who was I to tell him what he could or could not shoot. Just as Alex was serving dinner he told him to fuck off. I then told him to fuck off and ordered a car to take him away.

It must have been very painful for Amy to hear him cuss the Knowlton family as they were good friends and the ever generous and gracious Lary had given her a very expensive horse as a present.

It was noted she moved on after that safari and is now very happily married.

Alex the chef still works for Richard and is the most delightful fellow and I am glad to have known him.

Oh, based on this he really deserved a boot in the ass out of your camp...jeez..what an a$$hole..

Well done Andrew...

quote:

Originally posted by Pondoro:
Oh, based on this he really deserved a boot in the ass out of your camp...jeez..what an a$$hole..

Well done Andrew...

Apparently he refers to me in the States as a little wanker.

The Kaonde Tribe call him much worse.

Andrew, we must hunt again, I can see that. I and the Mrs. will try to behave:-)

Thank you Andrew, for that conformation of this guy's selfish attitude. What a prick!


…………………………………………………….

I have 3 of his videos. Once was him shooting a Lion with a bow, a bush pig with bow, his friends shooting buffalo, hippo charge at 4 meters etc. The other 2 videos were of mixed American game and a mix of Mongolian Argali hunts form the late 1960 onewards.

It is obvious that he comes from a very privileged background and was not not taught to respect all people, irrespective of their social standing.

I have hunted with a couple of PH's that immediately come to mind. Both are very nice guys but I am quite sure that they would have beaten the hell out of that guy if he had told them to
F^%& off !

Like he said in Lonesome Dove, ' I don't abide rudeness in a man!' right after Call had beaten that guy's head into an anvil!