Is it bad hunter manners to use your rifle scope to spot game (after being told by the PH) instead of using binoculars?

I remember reading a thread some time ago (by a respected AR contributor) that using the rifle scope for spotting was a no-no.

I'd say go for it as long as you're willing to pay the trophy fee if something goes wrong. Basic firearms safety... never point your weapon at anything you don't intend to kill.

Binocs and your eyes are for spotting....scopes are for shooting and only shooting.....don't use your fugging rifle and scope for spotting around me or you may have scope eye!

quote:

Originally posted by Tom In Tennessee:
Binocs and your eyes are for spotting....scopes are for shooting and only shooting.....don't use your fugging rifle and scope for spotting around me or you may have scope eye!

Not to worry Tom In Tennessee; you'll never be around me.

If you use rifle scope to spot, I sure hope not!

Binoculars and spotting scopes are used for locating game. A rifle scope should only be used when preparing to take a shot.

Ethics and manners really have nothing to do with it, firearm safety does.

Nothing is more disturbing then to find out someone is glassing you with their scope.

CrazyHorse....been there in MT....do not wish for it to happen again....in Scapegoat Wildrness....out fitter had to pull me off a newbie from ME when we got to camp...I saw him thru my binocs ....he was looking at me with his rifle....

If he wants you to spot it with the scope, the shooting sticks will probably be up.

Don't be a wedge ass - buy a quality set of binos and use them. You'll see 5000% more in binos than you'll ever see thru a rifle scope.

quote:

Originally posted by boltshooter:
Is it bad hunter manners to use your rifle scope to spot game (after being told by the PH) instead of using binoculars?

I remember reading a thread some time ago (by a respected AR contributor) that using the rifle scope for spotting was a no-no.

You're not really serious, are you? Tell me you're just trying to get a reaction out of us. If not, you're a total, 100% dipstick that has no business going on safari. Please tell us you're not as stupid as your post suggest.

My pair of binoculars stay in the car, or are taken to the blind.

I never carry them.

So all my "spotting" is done with my rifle scope.

I have not come across any PH who has objected to this yet.

I am sure some do. Just like some like to shoot their clients animals.

I haven't come across those either.

OK guys, let's get this straight. Binos are for judging trophy size and spotting game. Are you better at that than your PH? Probably not. So here is the drill:
Somebody in your party spots some game.
Your PH uses his binos to evaluate it.
At this point your job is to shoot whichever animal he points out. Are you going to do this with your binos?
If there is a shootable animal, the sticks go up and you are to look through your scope and be prepared to shoot the animal that your PH indicates.
I carry a compact set of Zeiss in my shirt pocket with the strap around my neck. If we are sightseeing I use them. If we are hunting, I use my scope.
Note to newbie nimrods, this does not mean that you use your scope to scan the area. This is only the drill on a hunt where you have a Professional Hunter guiding you.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
My pair of binoculars stay in the car, or are taken to the blind.

I never carry them.

So all my "spotting" is done with my rifle scope.

I have not come across any PH who has objected to this yet.

I am sure some do. Just like some like to shoot their clients animals.

I haven't come across those either.

I find it very hard to believe that you 'glass' with your riflescope. Seriously? I can see you looking at game you've already spotted through it, but not actually glassing to find game. Are you pulling our legs?

My original post asks the question of rifle scope use "(after being told by the PH)".

The PH has glassed & spotted game & the hunter can't see it with the naked eye.

Blacktailer precisely describes the condition of which I am referring.

quote:

I saw him thru my binocs ....he was looking at me with his rifle....

Been there, done that... not a good thing...

Some of you guys need to chill out...

Over the years one of the PH pet peeves that has come up time and again here on AR is the situation where the PH uses his binos to choose the best animal, then waits for it to get into a clear shooting position and gives the command to shoot, at which point the client drops his binos and starts fumbling with his rifle.

If the PH is looking at shootable animals you should have your rifle ready. If you are looking for game you should be using you binos.

When you have a ph you are not using the rifle to spot the game you are preparing to take a shot if the ph tells you the animal is good. Do not get this confused with hunting at home in states where your binos are used for locating game and you would be wrong to be using the rifle scope to look for game. In this instance the game has been located and you are not spotting but instead getting ready to pull the trigger.

quote:

Originally posted by Max Trauma:
In this instance the game has been located and you are not spotting but instead getting ready to pull the trigger.

That is the distinction between SPOTTING and preparing to shoot game,that has already been spotted, and when discussing this that needs to be made clear! This is the same thing I said in the Binoc thread above in reply to your post there!
Young kids who read these forums tend to apply what is said to their deer hunting in the hunter populated woods of home!

Good binos are a delight to use for viewing game, with far better optics than a rifle scope designed for single eye use and a different purpose.

But if you really want to use a rifle scope for viewing game carry a spare one, it will be far easier to use without 10lbs of walnut and steel as ballast beneath it

I take both Binoculars and a range finder. I use both depending on the conditions. My hunting partner use a range finder only as he has only one good eye. You should see the look on the trackers face when he takes his glass eye out to clean it.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
My pair of binoculars stay in the car, or are taken to the blind.

I never carry them.

So all my "spotting" is done with my rifle scope.

I have not come across any PH who has objected to this yet.

I am sure some do. Just like some like to shoot their clients animals.

I haven't come across those either.

Couldn't agree more. Hate anything round my neck when hunting, the binos stay in the pack and only get used when resting and spotting around or ahead. Firearms safety can be managed irrespective of using the scope, just always be aware of the state of your firearm and keep you're finger off the bloody trigger until ready to squeeze off a shot at a legitimate target.

I'm with Saeed. PH does the spotting, I do the shooting. Entirely different when hunting by myself though.

NEVER use your scope for game spotting.

That violates more than one of the primary rules of safe gun handling.

But as has been noted, you are not describing game spotting - you are describing lining up a shot on an animal that has already been spotted and deemed suitable.

Of course you use your scope for that.

When hunting with a ph and trackers you are unliiely to spot game before they do anyway. Might as well just be ready to shoot when they tell you to. I agree that random glassing with a rifle scope is to be condemned.

Spotting or observing with binoculars. Aiming with the scope. Its ultimately down to you to put the correct one to your eye at the appropriate time!

It is pretty much a no brainer. You are with your PH, tracker and game scout. Maybe you do spot game before them, probably not. When your PH is looking at whatever game animal through binoculars and you can see the tracker getting ready with the shooting sticks, now is not the time to be screwing around glassing. Get ready. The sticks are in position. Shoot the second one from the right. Be quick but take your time. Fast is slow!

I still like to carry binoculars along. Even when hunting, there is down time and other things to be seen. If bigger binos are too heavy and cumbersome, take a pair of 8X20's.

If I'd spent my time playing at game viewing on my safaris, there would be a number of animals missing from my walls.

I've used binoculars very sparingly in Africa.

Somewhat agree with odie....if we have found tracks to follow or seen something to stalk from the bakkie, I often offer my Swarovski's to one of the trackers or leave them behind presuming they will spot and I will shoot....does not apply to hunting in US.

The other issue I have is that I wear glasses and although most binoculars are designed to be used with spectacles it is never quite the same as using them without. So I generally have my binos set for use without wearing my glasses and carry them in my pack or leave them at home if stalking early morning/evening, hence my earlier post pointing out that I do not carry binos "at the ready".
The rifle scope comes to eye quickly, focused for my eyesight using glasses, and of course I'm ready to take a shot quickly if need be. I have no qualms using my scope to search ahead for game while in the field, but not obviously around dwellings or population etc.

I've been hunting for 39 years but only started useing Binos 3 years ago. Before that I relied on my naked eye as most of my shooting was feral animal control, not trophy hunting.

Looking at game with a rifle scope takes me time and with ferals usually precedes a shot. I see a lot more now with binos.

I must admit useing Binos is an acquired skill and I still often forget I have them around my neck.

Well, I am glad to see we have all got that out of our system.

If you are on safari with a PH and trackers, except for just wildlife viewing, the client needs to be ready to shoot so binoculars are not really neccessary.

But when at home on a D-I-Y hunt, having a good pair of binoculars and using them is a good thing.

But just randomly glassing the country side hoping to see something with a scoped rifle is pretty much the wrong thing to do in everyone's book.

Is that about the size of it folks?

quote:

Is it bad hunter manners to use your rifle scope to spot game (after being told by the PH) instead of using binoculars?[/

quote:

I remember reading a thread some time ago (by a respected AR contributor) that using the rifle scope for spotting was a no-no.

Maybe here is what caused this misunderstanding on a few folks part.

You are not going to be "Spotting" the game, the game is already spotted and all you need to do is follow instructions and take the shot.

There is a difference between spotting/glassing game and taking a shot at already located game.

I have never been African safari, but I really have my doubts that a PH sitting idlly by while a client is swinging a rifle around trying to spot game.

This is the kind of situation where miscommunication causes lots of arguements among hunters/people.

Spotting/Glassing mean the same thing to many folks, hence the term Spotting Scope.

Rifle scopes are intended to be used after game has been spotted and a shot is to be taken.

As can be seen from the responses, a few of us have had the unpleasant experience of having found ourselves being "Spotted/Glassed" by another hunter.

Thanks to all who answered the question or provided worthwhile contributions.

Miscommunication (semantics) is important in asking/answering questions. But reading is also important:

what forum was the question posted in (African hunting or American hunting?

The question did have a small qualifier being (after being told by the PH)

If one is not sure of the question why not ask the person who posted the question? (It could be said 'know what you're asking before asking' but that's the nature of asking.

Thanks all.

Interesting debate. My father used to scope everything but he had his own deer blind on about 500 acres and no one was ever around. He was older and grumpy so there was no since in discussing the issue.
The danger or risk on this topic is far less than a typical quail hunt with dogs. Just ask Dick Cheney? I will not bird hunt with other than one other shooter. A covey burst and birds go in every direction and so do gun barrels with fingers on the trigger. This is THE most dangerous scenario I can think of.

Just an aside from a former Montana guide.

I've had clients not be able to find game that was shootable because they saw it through binos, got excited and then couldn't find it through the scope because the scopes vs bino magnafication differed and the field of view was considerabily larger with the binos.

This is a matter of experience with equipment in the field for sure but; if you have problems with this transition, you trust your PH to judge the trophy quality for you, going straight to the scope/rifle might be a good idea.

Obviously, "scanning" with a scoped rifle is a dumb idea, dangerous, rude, etc. However; I have seen an animal at say 300yds that was moving, had the scope set at 9x (same as bino's) judging the trophy quality and proparing for the shot go hand and hand in this case since fumbling around could cost you a shot. This is not the situation originally proposed.

quote:

Thanks to all who answered the question or provided worthwhile contributions.

Miscommunication (semantics) is important in asking/answering questions. But reading is also important:

what forum was the question posted in (African hunting or American hunting?

The question did have a small qualifier being (after being told by the PH)

If one is not sure of the question why not ask the person who posted the question? (It could be said 'know what you're asking before asking' but that's the nature of asking.

Experienced hunters do not always set back and ask themselves what forum area a question was asked in or what "qualifiers" may have been listed.

They see something that on the surface could apply to hunting anywhere and they have an opinion, so they give it.

In looking at your OP, and even though I have never been on an African Safari, from what I have read and seen on the various hunting shows, the client seems to only have their gun in hand when a stalk is getting underway, and the all or the majoriyty of game "spotting" is done by either the PH or the trackers.

This is an open forum and lots of us have experience, having people willing to share their experience seems preferrable than not being willing to share it.

I much prefer binoculars to any scope for game viewing.

I carry rifle muzzle down over left sholder and binos with a wide strap across chest on right shoulder.

Use the alot more than my rifle.

Andy

As an aside to what others have said.... Many people have trouble locating game to shoot with scopes because they do not understand, or are practiced in, the correct use of a riflescope.

Maybe off topic but this discussion reminds me of the old samuri movies, where the samuri never draw their sword (or even their hands from their sleeves) unless they use it.

I feel the same way about the rifle and rifle scope.

Seriously though, eye fatigue and minimal movements of ones rifle, arms and body have always made me lean toward binoculars over a scope when set up in a prone position calling coyotes, bob cat or cougar.

Military snipers are trained the same way.

Andy

quote:

Originally posted by boltshooter:
Thanks to all who answered the question or provided worthwhile contributions.

Miscommunication (semantics) is important in asking/answering questions. But reading is also important:

what forum was the question posted in (African hunting or American hunting?

The question did have a small qualifier being (after being told by the PH)

If one is not sure of the question why not ask the person who posted the question? (It could be said 'know what you're asking before asking' but that's the nature of asking.

Thanks all.

bolt shooter, I'm sure you have got some sense and ideas from the opinions posted, hopefully mine included even though they may not have coincided with your own thoughts on the subject which I assume you had even before posting your query.
I did read the question and did understand that you were asking directly in relation to Africa but your second sentence could be seen as opening up a discussion on the practice in general, hence I suppose posts by many, on their views when applied to their hunting came about, and I feel all did contribute to a good discussion.
As a firearms safety instructor for over 30 years, I was taken a back by some of the strong replies you got considering one of the most dangerous practices I see in African hunting, is that of carrying, what in most cases is a fully loaded rifle by the barrel, over the shoulder. Also when stalking up to game invariably the hunter is trudging along behind the PH with his loaded rifle pointing up the PHs backside or in all manner of other directions, a big no no in our firearms safety programme. In most photos of trophies being displayed by the proud hunter the firearm is also displayed in various positions with the bolt or action closed another point we make in our safety programme. Obviously Africa is Africa and we do as we should or as told by the PH while hunting there.

I feel some posters took the moral high ground on your subject but are probably quite relaxed in following the other potentially more dangerous firearm handling practices I have just outlined.

Crazyhorse says "Rifle scopes are intended to be used after game has been spotted and a shot is to be taken".
Just who has ever decreed this. I have seen scopes mounted on tripods as a spotting scopes, the fact that they are mounted on a rifle does not preclude them from being used for spotting game. The only thing that does is if your PH, guide, or fellow hunters do not feel comfortable with this practice but then they are all probably not so lily white in some of their own practices either. Taking the moral high ground is just so easy.

I'm surprised that there's even a debate over this issue. I guess it was just the way I was raised and trained - you would never, never, ever, use your scope as a substitute for binos.

I can understand the point of view of those who say they don't use binos and have no use for any optics until the PH tells them there is an animal to be shot, then getting on the sticks and finding it in the scope.

But that's just not the way I've done it. For one thing, I do like to pretend that I'm contributing to the spotting of game when we're glassing. Sure the PH or (more often) a tracker spots animals long before I do, but on a few occasions I've spotted them first when those guys were looking somewhere else, and on even rarer occasions I've even eventually taken an animal that I spotted first. That adds to the experience and makes me feel like I'm much more part of the hunt than just being the trigger puller.

Second, I have often used my binos to better understand how an animal is positioned or located before shooting, even after the PH has spotted it and pointed out where it is to me. This is particularly true when you have animals bedded in a brushy area or someplace they're hard to see. If there's a herd of buffalo bedded in some thick stuff, the PH is looking at the bull he wants me to shoot and describing it to me, I need to get my binos on it to make sure I am looking at the same bull he is. I guess I could use the scope for that, but generally I just don't. I use the binos and then once we're all agreed on which animal I'm shooting and the plan for pulling it off, I put the rifle in the sticks and find it in the scope.

Finally, I use my binos for lots of things that aren't related to shooting anything. I want to see that elephant over the river closer up. I want to see if I can figure out what kind of bird that is in that tree. Is that a guy over there, or just a tree that looks like a guy? That kind of thing. I wouldn't use my scope for any of those things, and I'm glad I have my binos for it.

Guys who don't want the extra weight around their necks or on their shoulders - hey, I get that, even though I use a pretty lightweight pair of 8x32s. To each his own. Just don't point a scope at me if there's a rifle mounted underneath it.

I say "bad manners" to use your scope to "spot" for game - anywhere and under any circumstances.