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Why Risk IT??? Just Malaria alone, is reason not to take a chance. Last I read, Malaria is still the Number ONE KILLER, of People, compared with ALL other killers combined. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Stephen, I fully agree with that... Bet that in the US, East New York contributes more to the bad stats than Manhattan! Philip | |||
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I see the greatest risk as getting there...airports and planes are some nasty places. On my flight over from IAH to Frankfurt there were two little ones 2-3yoa and and infant. Infant looked miserable and Mom and Dad looked stressed out big time. The older one looked to be a little trooper! Somebody else screaming, crying kid doesn't bother me....I don't have to do anything  Robert If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretense of taking care of them, they must become happy. Thomas Jefferson, 1802 | |||
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That's what Bose or Sony headphones are for!  | |||
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Let's assume that the health aspect is not a concern (although I think it should be a concern!) and concentrate on the air travel alone. The flight to Africa sucks! Why would you subject your daughter to that? I suffered no ill effects from jet lag, but sitting on a plane for that many hours is extremely uncomfortable. I couldn't imagine dragging a baby along, thus making her, me, and probably everyone within earshot even more uncomfortable. Of course her grandparents want to see her...so let them come here and do so. John | |||
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I'm neither for nor against you taking your kid. I have spent a lot of time in Africa not related to hunting trips and have seen some of the absolute worst of Africa. One thing to think about is aircraft pressurization systems recirculate much of the cabin air continuously. The amount is determined by the aircraft type you're riding in, but I've caught colds from riding on long trips commuting say from Atlanta to Narita or JFK to Joburg. If you're traveling business class, your lives will be much easier with a babe in arms. Coach is another matter. The close proximity to good South African medical care is a definite plus. And if you have GR, there will be no long debate whether or not to move the kid to RSA, should the need arise. I cannot recommend GR too much. On my last trip, I got a head injury and we called them and they were all over it. Their service is superior. Ask Wendell about MedJet. Take the kid and enjoy. But be advised it ain't like a trip to LA, and BTW, infant mortality rates have nothing to do with your particular situation. I would, however, be concerned about the possibility of her getting malaria. | |||
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No way...don't even think about taking a 6 month old! What a foolish risk....get a babysitter! You are thinking of risking your child's life so you can go hunting...think about that. | |||
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JB, I just re-read your post and I didn't realize that the baby would stay in Lusaka, so sorry for my rant! With that said, however, I would still advise you to leave the baby home. | |||
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Using statistics "developed" by hard-core leftists that are trying to achieve unrelated political agendas is seldom an effective debating strategy. It doesn't work for Obama and I doubt that it will work for you. When Americans start travelling to France to get their most critical medical care, instead of the other way around, I might start paying attention to WHO. When you get bored with life, start hunting dangerous game with a handgun. | |||
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I think definately to go for it. I invited our Ph's wife and daughter 2 years old into my safari camp and we, wife and I had a wonderful time with the young daughter of their's. She was on a small piece of Larium. But speak to the doctor and go from there. You may even want to make it a sleep over trip half way there and finish the following day. Being with Africa raised wife and family I think you will be in good hands. Mike | |||
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This discussion is so wrong on so many levels. but hey mere opinions, guilts and inadequacies should guide all our decisions. | |||
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Jason: If you change your mind, my wife and I would be glad to babysit while you are in Africa. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The government consists of a gang of men exactly like you and me. They have, taking one with another, no special talent for the business of government; they have only a talent for getting and holding office. Their principal device to that end is to search out groups who pant and pine for something they can't get and to promise to give it to them. Nine times out of ten that promise is worth nothing. The tenth time is made good by looting A to satisfy B. In other words, government is a broker in pillage, and every election is sort of an advance auction sale of stolen goods." -- H. L. Mencken | |||
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There's a great idea... find a babysitter on the internet | |||
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I would and clearly have given this some thought and done your research. However if its not essential now, perhaps wait. Its the transport that I feel would be biggest issue, not Lusaka.
This statement is more ridiculous than the the stats you slag. Care to post any counter - facts? | |||
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seriously I don't see malaria as the issue. In the USA we had our kid checked for meningitus (core sample from the spine), he sat on a christmas ornament that required a lot of attention, swallowed a safety pin, etc... All things that I was happy to be near home where I could take them to Childrens Hospital and to doctors that were board certified, english as a first language, and had fda certified meds, new medical equipment, etc. Things happen and a 6 month old is just a bit on the young side. Now if you lived in Lusaka then that would be different, you would know what hospital and dr. to go see. Much like you do here. It isn't that you can't get good care there, would you know how to find it when you need it? | |||
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That's why I strongly recommend Global Rescue. If the grandparents don't know a good doctor (and it's a bit silly to assume they don't), then a call to GR will get you a name, if there is one. My concern, as previously mentioned, is that ball-buster of an airplane ride. I've done it at least fifty times over the years and the only thing that made it bearable was the fact that, as a crew member, I often got a courtesy upgrade to business class and sometimes first. As someone mentioned, I would recommend breaking the trip for 24 hours and get some sleep and a much-needed leg stretch, particularly if you're riding in coach. I just did that very thing last month, coming out of Tanzania. I took 24 hours in Amsterdam, with hot water, good food and clean sheets. It helped a lot. | |||
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Jason, My daughter was born there, cesarian... at three months we flew home with her. When my son was three months we flew back to Africa to sell our stuff and ship stuff home. It was Windhoek and not Lusaka... but I never gave it a second thought. Listen to your wife. She knows. She is from there. It is not like your or her first rodeo. If she says let's go... go. Mothers are generally over cautous anyway. Aaron | |||
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Oh so right... What of this: US ranking, compared with countries recognized by the US - Life Expectancy: 50 - Education Expenditures: 57 That's from The World Fact Book, published by the Central Intelligence Agency, a.k.a. CIA, another well-known leftist organization with hidden agenda... The same dubious source has the guts to publish more misinformation, 2009 figures: - Infant mortality rate (starting from the worst): 180 (far enough from the bottom...) - Infant mortality rate (starting from the best): 40 , just behind... Cuba. Close enough to the top? Of course, one could argue that Bush-era CIA's figures were different from Obama-era CIA's figures. Bloody commies...!  Let's not get confused by reality, so we can plod forward armed with the comforting thought that whatever we THINK WE KNOW doesn't need questioning. Philip | |||
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I've been living in South Africa since 1976 and I raised here 4 of my 5 children. For the last 11 years I've been living and hunting in Phalaborwa, Kruger National Park, an area where malaria is endemic. I see nothing wrong in taking your daughter with you but DO NOT GIVE HER MALARONE OR ANY SIMILAR SUBSTANCE. IT WILL BE HARMFUL TO HER HEALTH, WILL NOT PROVIDE 100% PROTECTION AND MAY DEALY A CORRECT DIAGNOSIS. Do not take her to visit the slums, do not keep her outdoor from one our before sunset to one hour after sunrise, spray daily all the rooms with a good insecticide, spray daily outside all drainages and other places where mosquito can aggregate, use impregnated mosquito nets and make sure that your family doctor has in his possession a course of Artemisin, that is the most safe and effective cure for malaria. November in this area is mostly a "dry month", as the rain season normally starts in December and continues till April, so will be fewer mosquitos around. To put things in the right perspective, in more the 10 years living in Phalaborwa, I have seen in my side of town only 3 malaria mosquitos, not necessarily infected. It took me some time to realize that the real risk was infinitly lower than what is commonly believed but are now many years that I'm not using any repellent when outdoor at night, and I'm still going around. I believe the same "low risk" status will apply to all African Towns the are provided with a working drainage system, while in the informal settlements the risk may be quite high. So my advice is give to your daugther a small quantity of Panado on the plane, so she can sleep and allow the other passenger to sleep, and then enjoy your holiday in Africa with the whole family. Andrea Sandri-Boriani | |||
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I would assume that the timing of this is something over which you don't have a lot of control. Given that assumption, I would go if it were me. We flew around the US when our kids were infants and didn't give it a second thought. Had we the opportunity at the time, we would have taken them to Mexico and Central America as well. Assuming your little girl is normally healthy and you take reasonable precautions against malaria, water-borne illness, etc. I wouldn't worry. I've travelled around and lived in developing countries quite a bit and just don't see them as neccasily that much more unhealthy than the US. Sure, "something" could go wrong, but life has risks no matter where you are. Have a good trip and let your in-laws see the grand-daughter! | |||
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Don't worry John, Pigfarmer is a local friend, not some guy just offering babysitting services on the internet. Just to clarify for those who have not had a chance to read the whole thread, this is a trip for the wife and baby to visit(in the baby's case meet) the family. I really(really) don't want to go now, but this looks to be the only time that we will be able to go for the next year or two. BTW I like the idea of having the grandparents come to visit here or in a safer area(Namibia) but there are aunts, uncles and cousins who would be left out. Part of the hurry is that my wife's parents are caring for her elderly grandmother who may not be around if we wait too long. Due to uncertainty regarding where we will be able to stay I am leaning heavily towards holding off on this trip. Her parents could accommodate us in Kabwe, but the place in Lusaka is not finished. I am unwilling to commit to this trip unless I am certain of the safety(medical care, airports, etc.) of the place we will be staying. Many of you have posted your worries regarding my daughter being able to get through the plane ride without going nuclear as so many babies do. To be honest that is the least of my worries as she is unbelievably good natured and rarely cries. But maybe she has been saving it up for this trip? If we do go, we will fly to Europe then on to Lusaka. This breaks the trip into two 10 hour flights with a 24 break on the way home. I have found this to be much easier than the 19 hour flight on SAA. Thanks for all the advice. I thought I had looked at this from every angle, but you guys came up with a bunch of stuff that had not crossed my mind. Thanks again. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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Jason, Thanks for clearing that up on the babysitting. I should have mentioned that we knew each other and live in the same place. Nevertheless, the offer still stands. No matter what you do, if you need any help, give me a call. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The government consists of a gang of men exactly like you and me. They have, taking one with another, no special talent for the business of government; they have only a talent for getting and holding office. Their principal device to that end is to search out groups who pant and pine for something they can't get and to promise to give it to them. Nine times out of ten that promise is worth nothing. The tenth time is made good by looting A to satisfy B. In other words, government is a broker in pillage, and every election is sort of an advance auction sale of stolen goods." -- H. L. Mencken | |||
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Jason, Here's a thought- How about you going when your angel is a bit older? The grandparents will enjoy a toddler, and may even hand you a hall pass for a week or so so you might put a dent in the local wildlife population. Zambia is a long ways to go without your .375 along for company! I would not hesitate. Go when you can. Life is what happens to us along the way. Cheers! "You only gotta do one thing well to make it in this world" - J Joplin | |||
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